If this is so, then this god is not the God of Abraham. The God of Abraham would never take the life of an innocent person. He does not punish the innocent along with the wicked. God is just. He does not punish the innocent (See Genesis 18:22-33.I don’t believe the Judas thing. Yes God took the life of Jesus from the cross before the cross could kill him.
2 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.If this is so, then this god is not the God of Abraham. The God of Abraham would never take the life of an innocent person. He does not punish the innocent along with the wicked. God is just. He does not punish the innocent (See Genesis 18:22-33.
I believe that Jesus died on the cross according to the Bible. I don’t believe in the Qur’an. But it was the Qur’an that stated that Jesus did not die on the cross, but someone else who looked exactly like Jesus. Deceit is a sin. Changing Judas’ face into Jesus’ face so that others would believe they would be killing Jesus is deceit. And the being who changed Judas’ face was Allah..
** It was Jesus on the cross. If Jesus died on the cross (not according to Quran) then how did Allah commit a sin? It is bible which says that Jesus died on the cross. If he was god then did he kill himself?? Or some other god killed him on the cross?? I feel that F o A is onto something useful. Let us see.**
The Quran doesn’t say that, Christian apocrypha adopted later by Muslims do. The Quran just says God took his life, the cross didn’t. It doesn’t say Jesus wasn’t on the cross.I believe that Jesus died on the cross according to the Bible. I don’t believe in the Qur’an. But it was the Qur’an that stated that Jesus did not die on the cross, but someone else who looked exactly like Jesus. Deceit is a sin. Changing Judas’ face into Jesus’ face so that others would believe they would be killing Jesus is deceit. And the being who changed Judas’ face was Allah.
But you believe that Jesus died on the Cross, right? So what is the difference? We also believe that Jesus voluntarily gave His life:I don’t believe the Judas thing. Yes God took the life of Jesus from the cross before the cross could kill him.
Stopped by men? Where do you have that as a requirement for the Messiah. The Messiah is to suffer at the hands of men. But He is not stopped even by death itself.First so Jesus would not be stopped by men which is implied to be a requirement of Messiah.
Isaiah 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
But Jesus is not gone:And also to fulfill this, since God made sure Jesus was gone before it could happen.
John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
They bore the guilt because it was their intent to kill Jesus. Jesus asked for their pardon because they knew not what they were doing. But Jesus, being God, could have sustained His own life on the Cross for eternity. But He didn’t. He gave up His life on the Cross as a sacrifice for the many.And possibly or incidentally, so Jews and Romans would not bear the guilt of killing Messiah, God maybe having compassion for them too.
Sorry FaithofAbraham, but the Catholics don’t take many things in the Bible literally as the Protestants. The Bible was written by men inspired by God.2 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
2 Samuel 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
2 Samuel 12:15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
2 Samuel 12:19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
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** It was Jesus on the cross.**
Correct.
**Well, he has understood that it was Jesus on the Cross. That Jesus gave up His life on the Cross. That is much more than any other Muslim on this forum has understood.If Jesus died on the cross (not according to Quran) then how did Allah commit a sin?
I would tend to agree. F o A is onto something.
Sincerely,
De Maria
**
Sura 4:157-159 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; **and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) **and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.The Quran doesn’t say that, Christian apocrypha adopted later by Muslims do. The Quran just says God took his life, the cross didn’t. It doesn’t say Jesus wasn’t on the cross.
But you believe that Jesus died on the Cross, right? So what is the difference? We also believe that Jesus voluntarily gave His life:
I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again.
Like Isa is added not in the Quran. Crucifixion is Roman execution, if you don’t die from the cross you aren’t crucified, you are just nailed to it.Sura 4:157-159 And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; **and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) **and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
**and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so **
it appeared that crucifixion killed him? what should have appeared then other than what they saw? makes no sense because they can’t possibly have seen otherwise, yet the author of the Quran blames them “for not having knowledge”.
and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it;
The two prophets killed by the Beast in Revelation are.Hi Folks.
Can someone tell me, was John the Baptist, according to Scripture, the last Prophet?
Regards,
JAW
What people of his time would ever believe Jesus was born of a virgin, was that deceit of God to make people think he was a bastard, or just another part of the plan?if Jesus accepted to be put on the cross, and to die on the cross, knowing that all people will understand that He died crucified, why would then Allah say He did not die because of crucifixion? Jesus had the power to lay it down, if He did lay it down but “not out of crucifixion” then this is deceit since He knows that people will understand He died crucified. Jesus knows that people cannot possibly come to the conclusion that it wasn’t crucifixion, and hence its deceit.
If the Quran and Bible are word of God, them suddenly Allah is attributing deceit to Jesus because when Jesus reappeared to His disciples, He did not tell them what the quran says, yet said this 600 years later?? these words are an innovation (bid’aa) put on Jesus’ words.
Like Isa
is added not in the Quran. Crucifixion is Roman execution, if you don’t die from the cross you aren’t crucified, you are just nailed to it.people are put on the cross to die crucified, not to be “nailed” for the sake of it. There is no other reason.
If I strangle someone but God kills the person before he dies from my hands, it may look like he suffocated but he didn’t, God killed him.
My Muslim friend, why are you blaming God for your sins? If you strangle someone and that person dies, why blame God for killing him? Don’t you think you should take responsibility for what you do? The Christians believe that it was our sins that killed Christ. We do not blame God because God does not sin.If I strangle someone but God kills the person before he dies from my hands, it may look like he suffocated but he didn’t, God killed him.
Everything about Jesus has been a mystery. Why doesn’t the NT bother to say exactly who Mary’s father was, rather than list two Josephs? Why hasn’t the Church ever caught on that two Josephs acted as a father to him? Or why doesn’t the NT say exactly how Jesus was created from David’s seed? And many other things.people are put on the cross to die crucified, not to be “nailed” for the sake of it. There is no other reason.
people put on cross die crucified…thats what people understand and God knows this. If this were not the case, Jesus would have explained this to His disciples after He rose, in the NT, in the first century, not to a non-disciple, 600 years laters which lead into a huge confusion into billions of people.
I’m using that analogy for what people perceived with Jesus on the cross.My Muslim friend, why are you blaming God for your sins? If you strangle someone and that person dies, why blame God for killing him? Don’t you think you should take responsibility for what you do? The Christians believe that it was our sins that killed Christ. We do not blame God because God does not sin.
What people of his time would ever believe Jesus was born of a virgin, was that deceit of God to make people think he was a bastard, or just another part of the plan?
huge difference.
The virgin birth was not declared to people at the time of conception since He was known as “son of Joseph” precisely because Mary was married. No bastard thoughts or anything. It is the means by which He came to earth and was revealed later. No one knew it before.
in the case of crucifixion, He was seen by many to die out of crucifixion. Saying it is not the case is attributing deceit to Jesus.
If you read the Isaiah 53 Suffering Servant it says right there God does the bruising, same as he as David’s child who died for David’s sin. But it is all just a bruise since death can’t hold Jesus
You said it yourself, revealed later when it was ready to be revealed.huge difference.
…was revealed later. No one knew it before.