Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

[swariffin]

You have to see my post first, which came from the action of my fingers on the keyboard, which came from me.

Or for another analogy:

ME (GOD)
MY VOICE (HOLY SPIRIT)
MY WORDS IN MY VOICE (GOD’S WORD)

My voice and my words aren’t two other people, they are just me.

Dear FoA,

Forget the rest of your posting. By saying the sentence I bolded, I don’t understand why do you describe God in fraction. That is it. When I reply to your posting, I am communicating with the whole FoA. When you reply to Jesus or to the Holyspirit, you are replying the whole God. There is no way of describing God in fraction even when you discuss Trinity. There can’t be an expression that God the Father is 1/3 God. And that is what we are questioning from you.

 

[dolphinlove]

IF your still alive when Jesus returns to earth, what are you going to say to him when he asks you why do you deny him as God?

 

[Reuben_J]

I see myself as a child of God too. Don’t try to stereotype all Muslims into a little box, just as Christians aren’t all the same either. Do you drink poison and handle snakes like some other Christians?

So then, you shouldn’t do that with Muslims either.

By the power of the Holy Spirit we can do that. Mark said so.

But it is true that you do not know the infinite love of God. You do not know this love because you have not experienced it. The slave master can never be a LOVING Father.

Well if you know the love of God, then you should know that He is willing to die for His children to save them.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

So we get a clarification here, that Jesus is not God, but the Messiah and a special Son of God like Adam was.

If Jesus was a son of a tiger, he’d be a tiger.
If Jesus was a son of a bear, he’d be a bear.
If Jesus was a son of an alien, he’d be an alien.
If Jesus was a son of a human, he’d be a human.
If Jesus was a son of God, he’d be… oh - I’ve lost my thought.

Oh well, it’s late. Good night everyone.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Dear FoA,

Forget the rest of your posting. By saying the sentence I bolded, I don’t understand why do you describe God in fraction. That is it. When I reply to your posting, I am communicating with the whole FoA. When you reply to Jesus or to the Holyspirit, you are replying the whole God. There is no way of describing God in fraction even when you discuss Trinity. There can’t be an expression that God the Father is 1/3 God. And that is what we are questioning from you.

When we are looking at the aspects of God that are named in three types, there’s nothing wrong with saying that just one of those aspects is a third of the whole.

If Trinity doctrine goes against simple math then it is way out there and there is no point in even trying to explain or defend it if someone like me comes along to say why they don’t accept it.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

IF your still alive when Jesus returns to earth, what are you going to say to him when he asks you why do you deny him as God?

If he is really God? I would tell him the Ten Commandments tell me to have no other Gods but the one God of Israel and Father to us all. Not another Son God seated next to Father God. He’ll understand.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

By the power of the Holy Spirit we can do that. Mark said so.

But it is true that you do not know the infinite love of God. You do not know this love because you have not experienced it. The slave master can never be a LOVING Father.

Well if you know the love of God, then you should know that He is willing to die for His children to save them.

If only God can raise people from the dead who raised God when he died? Grandpa God?

 

[dolphinlove]

If only God can raise people from the dead who raised God when he died? Grandpa God?

Now this is just getting plain rediculous, you just dont understand the trinity, you will never understand with this type of attitude as well!

Good night Charles

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Now this is just getting plain rediculous, you just dont understand the trinity, you will never understand with this type of attitude as well!

Good night Charles

I deleted that for being a bit sarcastic.

But Charles is no God that he should judge my relationship with God, Jesus warns against doing that. As much as I rail on you Christians about bad doctrine I never tell you that you don’t have God’s love, that’s rather despicable.

 

[swariffin]

When we are looking at the aspects of God that are named in three types, there’s nothing wrong with saying that just one of those aspects is a third of the whole.

If Trinity doctrine goes against simple math then it is way out there and there is no point in even trying to explain or defend it if someone like me comes along to say why they don’t accept it.

Dear FoA,

It is always be wrong to describe God in fraction. The Church (even all denominations) will never describe God in fraction. It is only you make that description eventhough you admit that your finger typing your posting means all of you. The funny thing is, you keep on insisting the possibility of defining God in fraction, but you admit that your posting in the internet, your fingers in the keyboard and yourself are one. The one description you made for the trinity, you call it fraction, the same description I apply to you, you admit no fraction. Who is inconsistent here?

If trinity can be described in math, then all of the priests (both Catholics and non-Catholics) are mathematicians.

That is the problem. Nobody understand trinity completely, but we do have a certain level of understanding the trinity, especially as compared to you. You admit that you don’t except the trinity, which is fine. You tell us why you don’t except it, which is also fine. But, when we try to discuss to you what we understand of trinity, you simply close your mind. My question is, why do you ask at the first place?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

But, when we try to discuss to you what we understand of trinity, you simply close your mind. My question is, why do you ask at the first place?

I don’t close my mind, I simply point out flaws in your explanations then wait to see if you have further explanation to correct them somehow.

But I never see that, I see half-baked arguments that even though Jesus prayed to God, he wasn’t really worshiping God. And nonsense like that.

So maybe we should just let it go, you guys can have your mystery and intrigue. I’ll keep my simple one God, one prophet belief that a child could understand.

 

[dolphinlove]

I deleted that for being a bit sarcastic.

But Charles is no God that he should judge my relationship with God, Jesus warns against doing that. As much as I rail on you Christians about bad doctrine I never tell you that you don’t have God’s love, that’s rather despicable.

I was just saying good night to Charles
And yes, its not right to judge your relationship with God, i agree with you on that.
But then you are contradicting yourself in the same sentence, you are judging our religion and quite hashly without even trying to understand that its based on faith and not fact.
You said yourself God can do anything he wants to, well that means he can come here in the form of man as well.
He came this way so we would have an understanding and can relate to us. It would be hard to comprehend if he came as a talking donkey or something else wouldnt it?
As i said before, Jesus performed his OWN miracles, did not pray to God before hand like Moses etc did, and when Moses etc did pray, God told them what he was about to do, Jesus never did that and didnt need that, because he performed his own miracles.
Anyway, good night everyone!

And for the record, i can be quite sarcastic myself on here, im a bit of a hot head when im pressed as well!
We all can be.

 

[dolphinlove]

I don’t close my mind, I simply point out flaws in your explanations then wait to see if you have further explanation to correct them somehow.

But I never see that, I see half-baked arguments that even though Jesus prayed to God, he wasn’t really worshiping God. And nonsense like that.

They are not half baked nonsense as you put it, you dont understand it.
Ive read all the explanations on here and they are crystal clear to me.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I was just saying good night to Charles
And yes, its not right to judge your relationship with God, i agree with you on that.
But then you are contradicting yourself in the same sentence, you are judging our religion and quite hashly without even trying to understand that its based on faith and not fact.
You said yourself God can do anything he wants to, well that means he can come here in the form of man as well.
He came this way so we would have an understanding and can relate to us. It would be hard to comprehend if he came as a talking donkey or something else wouldnt it?
As i said before, Jesus performed his OWN miracles, did not pray to God before hand like Moses etc did, and when Moses etc did pray, God told them what he was about to do, Jesus never did that and didnt need that, because he performed his own miracles.
Anyway, good night everyone!

And for the record, i can be quite sarcastic myself on here, im a bit of a hot head when im pressed as well!
We all can be.

My religion is mostly faith not fact as well. But I still see with my own eyes in black and white that Jesus prays to his God, the same God of us all. If I make Jesus a God and he has a God then that is 2 Gods and against the Command to have no other gods but one God. That’s really where Trinity starts and ends for me, everything else is banter.

But regardless I’ve said all along I’d rather see Christians accept Trinity than reject Jesus entirely, it still boils down to you accepting Jesus on some level so it’s not all bad. I’ve not completely dismissed your faith, not once.

Unlike some here who have entirely dismissed mine out of hand.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

They are not half baked nonsense as you put it, you dont understand it.
Ive read all the explanations on here and they are crystal clear to me.

Yes it is, saying that praying to God is not a way of worshiping God is 100% nonsense.

 

[abucs]

Guys,

perhaps you should accept the words of FOA on post #766.

'I don’t need to understand how Jesus can be God because I reject the notion".

his mind is closed. You are not going to open it until he wants it opened.

He’s not asking you questions to learn but for your answers to be a platform for him to tell you how it really is (according to him).

If he can’t understand the difference between prayer and worship that’s his problem.

If he can’t (or rather won’t) understand the Christian perspective of scripture that’s his problem.

If he thinks that not being able to explain the trinity means it’s not real that’s his problem.

If he can’t explain how God can be in a burning bush, and in all our souls, and in an elevator in New York, a cricket match in India and reigning in Heaven and everywhere else knowing all things, and he thinks that’s OK but somehow completely different from not explaining the trinity, then that his problem.

Omnipresence is a much more difficult concept than the trinity.

Just like quantum physics tells us matter is both a particle and a wave at the same time and all the universe is an interconnected quantum wave and yet intelligible to us as seperate objects only because of observation, like that, is the trinity - we know it’s there but we can’t explain it as the Catholic Church has said.

We accept Isaiah 9:6 and the prophecy …

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

We accept Jesus saying in John 14:6

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on, you know him, and have seen him.”
Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, ‘Show us the Father?’ Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me”.

AND ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES MENTIONED.

If his mind is stuck with - how can a human be in God, that’s his problem.

Take him at his word

“…I don’t need to understand how Jesus can be God because I reject the notion”.

He has to get his Muhammadism heresy first.

 

[Booklover]

FOA I’m quoting straight from the Catechism. Hope this helps!

The dogma of the Holy Trinity
253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”.83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85
254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father”, “Son”, “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.
255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91
256 St. Gregory of Nazianzus, also called “the Theologian”, entrusts this summary of Trinitarian faith to the catechumens of Constantinople:
Above all guard for me this great deposit of faith for which I live and fight, which I want to take with me as a companion, and which makes me bear all evils and despise all pleasures: I mean the profession of faith in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I entrust it to you today. By it I am soon going to plunge you into water and raise you up from it. I give it to you as the companion and patron of your whole life. I give you but one divinity and power, existing one in three, and containing the three in a distinct way. Divinity without disparity of substance or nature, without superior degree that raises up or inferior degree that casts down. . . the infinite co-naturality of three infinites. Each person considered in himself is entirely God. . . the three considered together. . . I have not even begun to think of unity when the Trinity bathes me in its splendor. I have not even begun to think of the Trinity when unity grasps me. . .92

cont.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

cont.

IV. THE DIVINE WORKS AND THE TRINITARIAN MISSIONS
257 "O blessed light, O Trinity and first Unity!"93 God is eternal blessedness, undying life, unfading light. God is love: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God freely wills to communicate the glory of his blessed life. Such is the “plan of his loving kindness”, conceived by the Father before the foundation of the world, in his beloved Son: “He destined us in love to be his sons” and “to be conformed to the image of his Son”, through “the spirit of sonship”.94 This plan is a “grace [which] was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages began”, stemming immediately from Trinitarian love.95 It unfolds in the work of creation, the whole history of salvation after the fall, and the missions of the Son and the Spirit, which are continued in the mission of the Church.96
258 The whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons. For as the Trinity has only one and the same natures so too does it have only one and the same operation: "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are not three principles of creation but one principle."97 However, each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property. Thus the Church confesses, following the New Testament, “one God and Father from whom all things are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and one Holy Spirit in whom all things are”.98 It is above all the divine missions of the Son’s Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit that show forth the properties of the divine persons.
259 Being a work at once common and personal, the whole divine economy makes known both what is proper to the divine persons, and their one divine nature. Hence the whole Christian life is a communion with each of the divine persons, without in any way separating them. Everyone who glorifies the Father does so through the Son in the Holy Spirit; everyone who follows Christ does so because the Father draws him and the Spirit moves him.99
260 The ultimate end of the whole divine economy is the entry of God’s creatures into the perfect unity of the Blessed Trinity.100 But even now we are called to be a dwelling for the Most Holy Trinity: “If a man loves me”, says the Lord, “he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him”:101
O my God, Trinity whom I adore, help me forget myself entirely so to establish myself in you, unmovable and peaceful as if my soul were already in eternity. May nothing be able to trouble my peace or make me leave you, O my unchanging God, but may each minute bring me more deeply into your mystery! Grant my soul peace. Make it your heaven, your beloved dwelling and the place of your rest. May I never abandon you there, but may I be there, whole and entire, completely vigilant in my faith, entirely adoring, and wholly given over to your creative action.102

**IN BRIEF **
261 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian faith and of Christian life. God alone can make it known to us by revealing himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
262 The Incarnation of God’s Son reveals that God is the eternal Father and that the Son is consubstantial with the Father, which means that, in the Father and with the Father the Son is one and the same God.
263 The mission of the Holy Spirit, sent by the Father in the name of the Son (*Jn *14:26) and by the Son “from the Father” (*Jn *15:26), reveals that, with them, the Spirit is one and the same God. “With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified” (Nicene Creed).
264 “The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father as the first principle and, by the eternal gift of this to the Son, from the communion of both the Father and the Son” (St. Augustine, De Trin. 15, 26, 47: PL 42, 1095).
265 By the grace of Baptism “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”, we are called to share in the life of the Blessed Trinity, here on earth in the obscurity of faith, and after death in eternal light (cf. Paul VI, CPG § 9). 266 “Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son’s is another, the Holy Spirit’s another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal” (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).

cont.

 

[Booklover]

cont.

267 Inseparable in what they are, the divine persons are also inseparable in what they do. But within the single divine operation each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, especially in the divine missions of the Son’s Incarnation and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Manifest Destiny of oppressing Native Americans was based squarely on the idea that God wanted Christians to create the New Israel in America, and that the Native Americans were the new Canaanites. So Christians have twisted the Bible and used the name of God to justify all kinds of filth, they have been no better than Muslims.

FOA I’m still waiting for you to tell me where you got this notion? I’ve never heard of such a thing!

Vickie

P.S. What tribe do you come from?