Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

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It is NOT metaphoric to be a Child of God. If a couple adopts a child, can that child call them Father and Mother? Is a father and mother ONLY the ones that gave birth or can it be that the parents are those who care for the child?

I was waiting for someone to get literal again. Jesus is eternally begotten of the Father. He is not “seed” of anyone. He was adopted by Joseph, making him in the house of David, although there is evidence that Mary was of David’s house as well. The Father did not have sex with Mary to make Jesus.
The Bible says that God adopts men. It never says in plain words that there is a thing called God’s Word that is His literal son somehow. So I go with that Jesus is adopted, like Adam is Son of God in Luke, and all children of God.

Compare:

Romans 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Matthew 3:16-4:1 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

So I can only take it that Jesus is Son of God by this Spirit of Adoption. Not as being something God begat as another God in Heaven.

Psalms 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.
 
:rolleyes: More blather. But I guess it is expected, since Muslims simply do not have the courage to state the obvious. There was NO biological Father, since Jesus was BEGOTTEN of GOD. So, no “seed”. The only one responsible for Jesus’ birth is God. Period. Making God Jesus’ Father.

As simple as this is to understand, I’m sure the Muslims will find some way to insert double-talk and more blathering until it becomes unintelligilble 🤷
This is why some like me can’t accept what you say, it directly contradicts what the Bible says.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
 
This is why some like me can’t accept what you say, it directly contradicts what the Bible says.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
No, it doesn’t contradict that. You simply don’t understand it :banghead: (yet again).

St Matthew’s gospel goes to great lengths to show that Jesus is decendant from the Davidic line (i.e. his “seed”). But in the case of Romans, seed = line. Both Mary (the birth mother) and Joseph (Jesus’ surrogate Father) came from the Davidic line. Hence the statement. But that does not mean there was any semen (seed) involved in Jesus’ birth.
 
The Bible says that God adopts men. It never says in plain words that there is a thing called God’s Word that is His literal son somehow. So I go with that Jesus is adopted, like Adam is Son of God in Luke, and all children of God.

Compare:

Romans 8:14-15 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Matthew 3:16-4:1 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

So I can only take it that Jesus is Son of God by this Spirit of Adoption. Not as being something God begat as another God in Heaven.

Psalms 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.
Are you discounting the entire Gospel of John?
 
I must not undestand what you mean by “seed.” To me, that means that he is someone’s descendant.

Jesus is NOT the adopted son of God. Jesus is the Son of God eternally begotten of the Father. He is one in substance with the Father. He is the Son and there is a Father. This is how Jesus explains it, so it is the way it is. God the Father and Jesus is God the Son.
So there are two. He is the Son and there is a Father. The begotten word is used in the bible in the very beginning of Mathews: Abraham begat Issac. Issac begat Jacob, Jacob begat jehuda… Is that begatting different and the God begatting is different?. Why not use the same language in bible?/ Why the Mathews and Luke took the trouble to present the geneology of Jesus/. Was it all a show business?

Giving the geneology of Jesus in bible NT tells a lot of things to us. Why that is given in the bible?? What use is that Please? I hope that you are not upset by any of the questions. These are all valid questions.
 
This is why some like me can’t accept what you say, it directly contradicts what the Bible says.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Whenever Paul writes about “the flesh” he means according to the ways of the world, not the ways of God. In other words, Jesus WAS a part of David’s line according to the world.
 
No, it doesn’t contradict that. You simply don’t understand it :banghead: (yet again).

St Matthew’s gospel goes to great lengths to show that Jesus is decendant from the Davidic line (i.e. his “seed”).
That can only be true if Jesus is the real son of Joseph so…
 
Whenever Paul writes about “the flesh” he means according to the ways of the world, not the ways of God. In other words, Jesus WAS a part of David’s line according to the world.
I don’t think so, there is according to the seed and flesh of Abraham, those literally descended, and then according to the spirit and promise, by faith.

You have to reach way far off the edge to say it doesn’t mean procreation.
 
So there are two. He is the Son and there is a Father. The begotten word is used in the bible in the very beginning of Mathews: Abraham begat Issac. Issac begat Jacob, Jacob begat jehuda… Is that begatting different and the God begatting is different?. Why not use the same language in bible?/ Why the Mathews and Luke took the trouble to present the geneology of Jesus/. Was it all a show business?

Giving the geneology of Jesus in bible NT tells a lot of things to us. Why that is given in the bible?? What use is that Please? I hope that you are not upset by any of the questions. These are all valid questions.
Let me separate this because in reality, there are several things going on. No, I do not mind and I am not upset by the questions.

First, there is ONE God. Only One. No More, No Less. One. God defines himself as being Three Persons in One God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is the only way the Bible makes sense. The Son is God, the Father is GOd, the Holy SPirit is God, but they are not eachother. This is the Trinity.

The Begat is the BIble is the typical lineage thing, showing who came from whom. It is the family line.

Matthew was written for the Jewish audience at the time. THey had to be shown that Jesus was heir to David’s throne for him to fulfill prophacies. Luke was written for the Greek crowd. The need for lineage was not as important.

Jesus the Son is Eternally Begotten of the Father, but it is not in the Biological sense. There is no “Mother God.” God is eternal and outside of time, and he is unchanging. If there is a Father and a Son, and God says that there are, then they have existed since before creation. The “Father” “Son” and “Spirit” names are the ones that God chose to describe himself. That is why I keep asking why did God change his mind in the Koran.
 
I’ve already discussed all that to show Jesus never said he was God, you’ve seen it.
Yes, I have seen it. I’ve read the posts more than once. John still opened his Gospel by saying that the Word was God and the Word was Jesus. You couple it with other statement where Jesus used the same language as God (“I Am”) and either he was a blasphemor or he was God. I know that you have your own interpretation of the Bible, and I am cool with that. Just don’t expect us to throw out ours to comply. We see the information differently and we have come to different conclusions.
 
That of course should be “XX” and “XY” chromosomes. I guess my irritation at willful ignorance is manifesting itself in my inability to type.
 
Yes, I have seen it. I’ve read the posts more than once. John still opened his Gospel by saying that the Word was God and the Word was Jesus. You couple it with other statement where Jesus used the same language as God (“I Am”) and either he was a blasphemor or he was God. I know that you have your own interpretation of the Bible, and I am cool with that. Just don’t expect us to throw out ours to comply. We see the information differently and we have come to different conclusions.
Jesus isn’t mentioned until John 1:14, and God’s Word made flesh is a poetic way of saying Jesus is the prophet who spoke God’s Word.
 
Nooooooo. You need to study biology. YY and XY chromosomes ring a bell?

sheeesh:(
I don’t know what you mean, unless you are saying the Carpenter or Arimathea are the real fathers of Jesus.

Jesus must be David’s own son resurrected into anyway otherwise God’s promise to David is broken. David’s kingdom would be everlasting and so would his son’s, so you can’t have one break in generations without a king on the throne. And there is unless you believe Jesus is David’s real son. That’s why there was a virgin birth, not so God can be incarnated as a man but because Jesus is resurrected from the dead, firstborn of the dead.
 
Too bizarre and insignificant to comment on. 🤷
Resurrection is entirely biblical, God causing a child to be born to a barren woman is also.

God being his own son incarnated as a man is a Gentile thought.
 
That is correct that Father did not have sex with Mary. We Muslims also believe the same. ButJesus has to be the seed of some one…
Why do I get the feeling that planten and paarsurrey are one and the same? :hmmm:

I apologise in advance if I’m wrong. :o 😊
 
Jesus isn’t mentioned until John 1:14, and God’s Word made flesh is a poetic way of saying Jesus is the prophet who spoke God’s Word.
Thank you for your interpretation. Now, if you wish to know something from a knowledgable Catholic theologian, read on…

The following is taken from Frank Sheed’s book, Theology for Beginners. Please, buy it. I recommend it. You may not agree with it, but at least you’ll know what we believe and why we believe…

[pg 4] I remember an educated Catholic who was asked how God could be in three persons and answered, “God is omnipotent, and can be in as many persons as he likes.”

[pg 10] God is a spirit…

[pg 55] Spirit is a partless, spaceless, immortal being, which can know and love…

[pg 33] But there cannot be two infinite natures - one would be limited by not being the other and by not having power over the other. Therefore, since the Son has infinite nature, it must be the same identical nature as the Father’s.

This truth, that Father and Son possess the one same nature, might remain wholly dark to us if St. John had not given us another term for their relation - the second person is the “Word” of the first.

So God utters a word - not framed by the mouth, of course, for God has no mouth. He is pure spirit. So it is a word in the mind of God… What idea produced in God’s mind could possibly be God? Christian thinking saw early that it could be only the idea God has of himself.

The link between having a son and having an idea of oneself is that both are ways of producing likeness. Your son is like in nature to yourself; your idea of yourself bears some resemblance to you too - though it may be imperfect, for we seldom see ourselves very clearly; too many elements in us we see as we wish they were, too many we do not see at all.

Whatever is in the Father must be in his idea of himself, and must be exactly the same as it is in himself. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And the Word was God.”

Men have ideas, and any given idea is something. God’s idea of himself is not something only; it is Someone, for it can know and love.

The thinker and the idea are distinct, the one is not the other, Father and Son are two persons. But they are not separate. An idea can exist only in the mind of the thinker; it cannot, as it were, go off and start a separate life of its own. The idea is in the same identical nature; we could equally say that the nature is in the idea, for there is nothing that the Father has which his Word, his Son, has not. “Whatsoever the Father has, that the Son has in like manner” (Jn 16:15). Each possesses the divine nature, but each is wholly himself, conscious of himself as himself, of the other as other.

[pg 36] As the one great operation of spirit, knowing, produces the second person, so the other, loving, produces the third. But be careful upon this - the second proceeds from, is produced by, the first alone; but the third, the Holy Spirit, proceeds from Father and Son, as they combine to express their love. Thus in the Nicene Creed we say of him who proceeds from the Father and the Son…

[pg 37] Remember that we are making this study not to discover whether there are three persons in God (for he has revealed that there are), still less to verify it (for no effort of our mind could make it any surer than God’s own word), but simply to get more light on it and from it.

I hope this helps. But I know nothing can help you now. Your mind is too closed for our faith. I am sending you this just so you know that we have reasons for our faith. And you shouldn’t say rude things like…
You are just sour grapes because you know I’m right.
 
Jesus isn’t mentioned until John 1:14, and God’s Word made flesh is a poetic way of saying Jesus is the prophet who spoke God’s Word.
Your the only one that I have ever heard say this. It flies in the face of all other commentaries. Do you have support?
 
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