Why is NFP okay, but artificial contraceptives are not?

[Good_Daughter]

Let me give you an example of someone I know, the mans wife is less catholic than the husband and after 5 children she was adamant that no more children were to be had ( for physical as well as mental reason) NFP was apparently practiced during the time of 5 children, So the wife went on the pill, despite knowing the husband was defineitively against abortive type of contraception.

Now when it comes to marital relations what is the husband to do, if he engages in sexual relations with the wife, he is co-operating in the possible death of new life, so the theory is that he should not engage in marital relations to avoid the possiblity of death of new life.

Now it is impossible to engage in kissing cuddling, hugging, sleeping in the same bed etc and not to engage in marital relations, therefor the only option left is the nigh on complete withdrawal of physical affection of just about any type to ensure marital relations do not occur.

Now I can tell you that if a couple, especially the younger they are, have nigh on no physical interaction, the marriage will be doomed and we can expect the breadown of such marriage, this is not fanciful thinking, it is the truth of life.

So the husband, decided that in the best interests of the wife, the relationship and the family, went and got a vasectomy, as it was the least physically risky form of contraception and figured that 5 children would be enough, we might say in some way, that is was a sacrifice that he did not really wish to do, but did it anyway.

It is hard for someone in such a position yet how can one said to be not in mortal sin as the husband defintely knows the church is against vasectomy, eventhough he personally does not believe he has done anythng overly wrong in the circumstances, the Church generally does not appear to agree with him.

Having 5 kids is a really big deal. The desire to avoid abortive birth control is a wonderful thing. The few details we have about the couple in your example show us that they are probably very good people. The Church however, is unwavering in her mission to keep the poison of contraception out of marriages. The spiritual and emotional (and even physical) damage it can do is tremendous.

I agree that lack of physical relations can be hard on a marriage, even to the point of failure, but we should not put limits on God’s grace. It is incorrect to say that this lack causes a marriage to be doomed, especially if a couple has an intimate relationship with God.

What we need to do is pray and encourage each other in all trials, especially those involving marriage and family life. If NFP was well taught to Catholics and couples given adequate support, tough situations like the one you describe might become much less common.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Not at all sure that is true, condoms can also protect from disease.

Of course. I almost mentioned that in my post but it didn’t seem to address the point we were discussing.

 

[Annibc]

I generally agree with TMC’s way of thinking. I really also wonder how NFP is exalted to being the answer to all problems or questions when it is really a scientific and complex method that not many other than rich Americans and Europeans have a chance of ever hearing about and learning.

 

[littlemamaof5]

I don’t understand this altering the marital act distinction. Barrier methods arguably alter the act (although I can’t be sure because I am not sure how you are defining the term “alter”.) How does using the pill alter the marital act?

The Pill alters the body from conceiving a child and letting that baby implant in the womb. Have you ever read “The Pill How it Works?” It is a brochure put out by CCL. You can find info about this and other NFP issues at ccli.org.
So anyway back to topic, if the pill makes the uterus a hostile environment for a newly conceived life and thus kills the unborn baby this is an altering of the act. The pill can cause the new life to die because it cannot implant and if it does implant, the Mother by continuing to take the pill and not knowing a new life has been conceived can cause the new life to be aborted through message stoppers if you will, to the brain that normally tell the body to stop the periods. The pill alters your normal fertility process and thus aborts the baby even without you knowing it. Thus it does alter the act of the marital embrace. Please read further on this and try to fully understand, the pill causes abortions, many, many more than are performed each year voluntarily. Look further into this before you judge Holy Mother Church. She is a wise old Mother and knows why NFP **isn’t **immoral and the pill and other contraception are immoral.
God Bless you this Thanksgiving.

 

[littlemamaof5]

THANK YOU! This is probably the best answer I have seen. Very helpful!

So I am correct in saying that it is immoral to use NFP because the couple does not want to deal with kids, but it is moral if they are in a tight financial situation where it wouldn’t be fair to the child if they were to have another one, because the child may not get all that is needed, such as healthcare?

K. Wrote; I would say talk with your priest about this situation. It all depends on what you mean by financial. If you mean should you wait until you have the home you desire most or the big car or the perfect situation it will never happen and these aren’t reasons to avoid. However, if you just had a baby 4 months ago and your cycles come back after each child at 4 months and the baby still needs you to nurse her/him and take care of him without being pregnant with the next one. That is a good reason! It is a health concern for you and the well being of your baby that you already have. This also counts for your situation with your other children. If you space them too close together will you be as good of a Mom as you should be or will you be stressed all the time and unable to do what God may be calling you to do with them. In our case this was home schooling them. Please pray together as a couple and talk with a good priest that you can trust. Don’t wait for healthcare, I’ve got medicade right now that covers full maternity because my dh has his own company and we are one income with 5 kids and couldn’t afford insurance. Look into that one too they cover you fully for your pregnancy and delivery.
The main thing is listen to God’s voice and don’t let materialism or pride or trying to be a perfect family be a factor in your decision process. Let God do this for you.
God Bless you

 

[Socio_Momma]

I generally agree with TMC’s way of thinking. I really also wonder how NFP is exalted to being the answer to all problems or questions when it is really a scientific and complex method that not many other than rich Americans and Europeans have a chance of ever hearing about and learning.

Actually NFP is taught world-wide in countries all across the wealth spectrum, it is not just a rich nation thing. Methods taught world-wide include: Billings, Couple to Couple League, Family of the Americas and the Georgetown University methods (Two Day Method & Standard Days).

I am not sure if Creighton is world-wide or what other methods are out there, but the ones I have listed are all definitely taught to non-rich nations. You can see where in the world and find instructors through their webpages.

I would also suggest studing more methods, since there are a variety out there some are very basic and others use more cross-checks. Complex is really an individual perception and can vary method to method. All use science as a basis for how they work, but so do contraceptive methods. However, this doesn’t equal an inability for a person to learn it. People who are illiterate can learn NFP as Mother Teresa’s nuns can tell us.

 

[TMC]

I generally agree with TMC’s way of thinking. I really also wonder how NFP is exalted to being the answer to all problems or questions when it is really a scientific and complex method that not many other than rich Americans and Europeans have a chance of ever hearing about and learning.

Thanks for the agreement Annibc, but I think I should clarify something. My questions about the Church’s teachings on NFP should not be construed as a condemnation of the practice. I think that NFP is perfectly moral and acceptable, which is the Church’s teaching (more or less). What troubles me is why the Church teaches that it is inherently different from other methods. I bowed out of this discussion because I was concerned my arguments would be misconstrued, but thought I should pop back in to clear that up.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Actually NFP is taught world-wide in countries all across the wealth spectrum, it is not just a rich nation thing. Methods taught world-wide include: Billings, Couple to Couple League, Family of the Americas and the Georgetown University methods (Two Day Method & Standard Days).

I am not sure if Creighton is world-wide or what other methods are out there, but the ones I have listed are all definitely taught to non-rich nations. You can see where in the world and find instructors through their webpages.

I would also suggest studing more methods, since there are a variety out there some are very basic and others use more cross-checks. Complex is really an individual perception and can vary method to method. All use science as a basis for how they work, but so do contraceptive methods. However, this doesn’t equal an inability for a person to learn it. People who are illiterate can learn NFP as Mother Teresa’s nuns can tell us.

Thank you for addressing this so well. I learned Billings from a couple who are doctors. They have done missionary work in Africa which included teaching NFP. I can’t imagine a less expensive form of birth control.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi hamburglar,

The best explanation I’ve heard regarding the Church’s stance against artificial contraception was given in the context of the sacrament of marriage.

Like the way Jesus gave His body completely for His Bride, The Church, we should give our bodies completely to our spouses.

 

[littlemamaof5]

Yes, the question is why is NFP moral and ABC immoral.

Why can’t you understand that the pill causes abortions? Do you understand that. It alters your bodies normal fertility and fertility is a GIFT from God just as Life is a GIFT!

OK, I don’t necessarily agree to understand how contraception takes what is God’s, but lets assume for the moment that this is true and see where it takes us.

Are you a practicing Catholic? If you are then you have to TRUST in GOD and in his Holy Catholic Church. Pray for guidence on this and understand that sometimes we don’t always have the answers. This is called faith.

OK, this is entirely inconsistent with what you just said. If birth control takes what is God’s how can just reasons matter? If just reasons make it OK, why can’t there be just reasons to use so-called ABC?

How does NFP honor the procreative purpose? The very point is to avoid procreating. It makes no sense whatsoever to say that a sexual practice which is carefully designed to avoid conception and procreation is open to procreation and not contraceptive.

I’m so sorry to disagree with you but you are so wrong on this. NFP isn’t Birth Control it is God’s plan in our marriage the way he made us (our bodies fertility) to work and why would God have made us this way? Are you questioning God and how he made a womans fertility. When you use contraception you are NOT open to life period! With NFP you are always open even if you cannot concieve at the infertile time you aren’t preventing a new life from conceiving by taking a powerful drug that will abort your unborn baby. This is immoral and wrong! Any contraception like the barrier methods are wrong because you are saying to God and to your spouce I love you but not in my bedroom. I shut the door to my bedroom to God and to what his plan is for our marriage. By doing this you also lose your sanctifying grace that God give you. If you lose God’s grace you lose your soul! That is why there is a key difference between contraception and NFP. I personally think it is wrong to say NFP is “BIRTH CONTROL”. I teach NFP and I don’t teach natural birth control. Thank you. I teach God’s plan for marriage the way it was intended for us. As far as the complicated part it can be hard at first to learn but the good news is CCL is coming out with their retooled method and it is much easier to learn and to teach. I really think instead of talking to all of us about this that you need to speak with a good knowledgeable priest. Trust Holy Mother Church that she knows best and don’t sweat it anymore. Don’t let this mess up your Thanksgiving holiday. Blessing to you and yours,
K.

You can continue to insist that contraception and birth control or not the same thing, but they are. Contraception means avoiding conception. The only moral way to “control” birth is to avoid conception - surely we agree on that? So you can avoid conception by abstinence, or by doing something to ensure that sex does not result in conception. But at that point there is a supposed division based on the means used to avoid conception. But that is an entirely artificial division. I have yet to hear why one is moral and one is not.

I have, and I don’t find a reasonable, rational explanation in there.

Is this rational enough? You are so wrong about NFP and you really need to pray about this. I will pray for you. What do you think we should just let the babies come and come one right after another even if pregnancies can cause harm to the Mother and her baby. John Paul II wrote about this and its not responsible parenthood. We must be responsible parents and be prudent in spacing our babies. This isn’t Birth Control this is listening to God every month and praying is this the month you want us to conceive a new life or is is best for us to wait right now. Emotional reasons of other children are also a good reason to avoid pregnancy. You just don’t understand we are always open and never using anything to prevent new life from conceiving even during infertile times. Like I said before check out the website ccli.org and read more please. God Bless.

 

[sing]

People who are illiterate can learn NFP as Mother Teresa’s nuns can tell us.

I wonder what effect malnutrition had on reducing the fertility of the nun’s students and therefore making NFP more effective.

 

[Socio_Momma]

I wonder what effect malnutrition had on reducing the fertility of the nun’s students and therefore making NFP more effective.

Without evidence to indicate that malnutrition had any direct effect on the women who learned “modern” NFP from the nuns (or anyone else for that matter) this is speculative and unscientific. One can wonder but given there is an overall higher fertility rate and crude birth rate for India than the US, nothing indicates that malnutrition has had such a dramatic effect on overall reduction of births as what would be necessary for the Billings study to be as effective as it was. Third world and/or semi-peripheral countries overall have very high fertility rates (when no method is being used) and suffer malnutrition at alarmingly high rates. Yet, in these countries when there is no family planning method used at all fertility rates are high regardless of malnutrition.

Moreover, the research data on NFP does indicate that the couples in these cases (who had positive ferility rates prior as indicated by their existing family size & previous pregnancies) using a NFP method do have lower birth rates and larger spacing between children. It would be highly improbable (even without past positive fertility noted for the couples) from a statistical standpoint that only couples who learned NFP in India where effected by infertility (which is what this quoted post suggests) or even a significant portion to cause the outcome that was noted. Given the research findings: a study of 19,843 poor women in India had a pregnancy rate approaching zero (British Medical Journal, Sept. 18, 1993, by
R.E.J. Ryder). [0.2 pregnancies/100
women users yearly, or 99.8%, with this method which is comparable to the perfect use rates promoted by makers of hormonal methods].

Malnutrition does not account for the nearly perfect user rate reported by the study. Instead it is more probable that NFP worked as the method indicates when used as designed & consistently (just as all methods, NFP or ABC,require). Additionally, studies across the world seem to indicate low “failure” rates with this method and it does not appear we can simply dismiss results in all cases on malnutrition.

According to the World Health Organisation, 93% of women everywhere in the world (wealthy & poor alike) can identify the symptoms, which distinguish adequately between the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle. This includes women who are lacking in an education, increasing in education and overall health care access would increase the percentage of women. The research indicates that “modern” NFP methods can be used by couples worldwide to avoid pregnancy or create larger spaces in births when there is a necessary reason (i.e. serious or just reason which should be prayerfully discerned as the Church teaches).

 

[Socio_Momma]

adding to my above post
I tried to edit but I missed my edit time window. IMO it’s important and so I am going to post the correction here, even if no one cares

India is not necessarily a semi-peripheral country (for those who love world systems) as it is more solidly in the peripheral. I also wanted to alter the use of the phrase “third world” to “developing nations” as it is more accurate and less value laden.

 

[HailMary]

Contraception: Why Not?

This article really helped me. I encourage you to read it for yourself and see if answers some of your questions about this subject.

 

[sing]

Without evidence to indicate that malnutrition had any direct effect on the women who learned “modern” NFP from the nuns (or anyone else for that matter) this is speculative and unscientific. One can wonder but given there is an overall higher fertility rate and crude birth rate for India than the US, nothing indicates that malnutrition has had such a dramatic effect on overall reduction of births as what would be necessary for the Billings study to be as effective as it was. Third world and/or semi-peripheral countries overall have very high fertility rates (when no method is being used) and suffer malnutrition at alarmingly high rates. Yet, in these countries when there is no family planning method used at all fertility rates are high regardless of malnutrition.

Moreover, the research data on NFP does indicate that the couples in these cases (who had positive ferility rates prior as indicated by their existing family size & previous pregnancies) using a NFP method do have lower birth rates and larger spacing between children. It would be highly improbable (even without past positive fertility noted for the couples) from a statistical standpoint that only couples who learned NFP in India where effected by infertility (which is what this quoted post suggests) or even a significant portion to cause the outcome that was noted. Given the research findings: a study of 19,843 poor women in India had a pregnancy rate approaching zero (British Medical Journal, Sept. 18, 1993, by
R.E.J. Ryder). [0.2 pregnancies/100
women users yearly, or 99.8%, with this method which is comparable to the perfect use rates promoted by makers of hormonal methods].

Malnutrition does not account for the nearly perfect user rate reported by the study. Instead it is more probable that NFP worked as the method indicates when used as designed & consistently (just as all methods, NFP or ABC,require). Additionally, studies across the world seem to indicate low “failure” rates with this method and it does not appear we can simply dismiss results in all cases on malnutrition.

According to the World Health Organisation, 93% of women everywhere in the world (wealthy & poor alike) can identify the symptoms, which distinguish adequately between the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle. This includes women who are lacking in an education, increasing in education and overall health care access would increase the percentage of women. The research indicates that “modern” NFP methods can be used by couples worldwide to avoid pregnancy or create larger spaces in births when there is a necessary reason (i.e. serious or just reason which should be prayerfully discerned as the Church teaches).

Ok. Calm down, I said that I wondered. I am curious, not attacking you or anyone else. I just wanted to know if there was any research done on it, because I know that malnutrition does have an effect on fertility(not necessarily infertility, but reduced fertility). Also, did you say whether or not birth control usage was taken into consideration when comparing the birth rates of India to Western birth rates? If it doesn’t, I don’t see where it has relevance to potential malnutrition-reduced fertility.

 

[Socio_Momma]

Ok. Calm down, I said that I wondered. I am curious, not attacking you or anyone else. I just wanted to know if there was any research done on it, because I know that malnutrition does have an effect on fertility(not necessarily infertility, but reduced fertility). Also, did you say whether or not birth control usage was taken into consideration when comparing the birth rates of India to Western birth rates? If it doesn’t, I don’t see where it has relevance to potential malnutrition-reduced fertility.

I was not upset and I didn’t think you were attacking at all. I didn’t realize that my response would read way more intense than I intended. Although reading it again tonight (without the kids underfoot) it really does I apologize that it came across like it did.

Yes, from the research I have seen on the subject when controlled for birth control or family planning methods, fertility rates overall tend to be slightly higher in India or other similar nations. There is also research on malnutrition and fertility rates, it shows that malnutrition does not have a significant effect on fertility although it could have some minor effect. (J Bongaarts has done research on the area). Helping to combat infertility through nutrition alternatives has been documented but this is usually related to an underlying health condition (i.e. PCOS). However, malnutrition could pose a negative effect on the development of the infant in utero and I don’t want to suggest it’s not an area of concern. My (very long winded:blush point was that malnutrition is not a highly probable factor in why the Billings study and method was so successful.

Anyway, sorry for any miscommunication. I swear I am not on the attack/defense/what-not

 

[hasikelee]

Without evidence to indicate that malnutrition had any direct effect on the women who learned “modern” NFP from the nuns (or anyone else for that matter) this is speculative and unscientific. One can wonder but given there is an overall higher fertility rate and crude birth rate for India than the US, nothing indicates that malnutrition has had such a dramatic effect on overall reduction of births as what would be necessary for the Billings study to be as effective as it was. Third world and/or semi-peripheral countries overall have very high fertility rates (when no method is being used) and suffer malnutrition at alarmingly high rates. Yet, in these countries when there is no family planning method used at all fertility rates are high regardless of malnutrition.

Moreover, the research data on NFP does indicate that the couples in these cases (who had positive ferility rates prior as indicated by their existing family size & previous pregnancies) using a NFP method do have lower birth rates and larger spacing between children. It would be highly improbable (even without past positive fertility noted for the couples) from a statistical standpoint that only couples who learned NFP in India where effected by infertility (which is what this quoted post suggests) or even a significant portion to cause the outcome that was noted. Given the research findings: a study of 19,843 poor women in India had a pregnancy rate approaching zero (British Medical Journal, Sept. 18, 1993, by
R.E.J. Ryder). [0.2 pregnancies/100
women users yearly, or 99.8%, with this method which is comparable to the perfect use rates promoted by makers of hormonal methods].

Malnutrition does not account for the nearly perfect user rate reported by the study. Instead it is more probable that NFP worked as the method indicates when used as designed & consistently (just as all methods, NFP or ABC,require). Additionally, studies across the world seem to indicate low “failure” rates with this method and it does not appear we can simply dismiss results in all cases on malnutrition.

According to the World Health Organisation, 93% of women everywhere in the world (wealthy & poor alike) can identify the symptoms, which distinguish adequately between the fertile and infertile phases of the menstrual cycle. This includes women who are lacking in an education, increasing in education and overall health care access would increase the percentage of women. The research indicates that “modern” NFP methods can be used by couples worldwide to avoid pregnancy or create larger spaces in births when there is a necessary reason (i.e. serious or just reason which should be prayerfully discerned as the Church teaches).

What an informative post! I love this subject. Have you done missions with a NFP or family care emphasis?

 

[Socio_Momma]

What an informative post! I love this subject. Have you done missions with a NFP or family care emphasis?

I love this subject too, but I have not done a mission. I do research in medical (health), family, & gender. I try to read whatever pops up in the academic journals about NFP or related topics on fertility, women’s & infant’s health. I hope that I will be able to weave NFP into my own work in the future. I realize I am a nerd because who else thinks reading journal articles is a good time unless they are nerdy

The research literature on NFP has been steadily growing with largely good results. I truly believe that there is a tide turning. Even if there is still a lot of work that needs to be done to change perception of NFP, the steps toward change have been made.

Ok…back to the regularly scheduled topic.

 

[harleymonk]

First off, I must admit that I did not wade through all of these variously interesting and adroit posts, which I presume follow what might have been the logic of the Pharisees, to wit: if one is able to couch one’s behavior within legalistic parameters, then one behaves legally; if not, be damned!

But is it not true that Jesus, who noted that the Pharisees had hearts of stone, saw behaviors in a different light? What! heal on the Sabbath? But would you not go out [and labor] to find your lost sheep on the Sabbath? It seems that, for Jesus, one’s motivations were often viewed as the end, often regardless of the means or the end; and Jesus, seemingly, viewed the heart of one’s behavior as often transcending one’s legalistic, albeit reasoned, behavior. Consider the poor old woman who gave her last two mites. Her means and end were, to Jesus, not noteworthy. Jesus saw only a loving and selfless heart.

Aquinas teaches us that, if we follow our conscience, and our conscience is wrong, we commit the venial sin of ignorance. If we disobey our conscience, even if our our choice was “right,” (and our conscience was wrong) we commit the mortal sin of hypocracy.

Now let’s put all of this together. Lovers in marriage, having been schooled by Pharisees, are awash in legalese; good grief, just read some of these posts. At some point, these same lovers decide that seven children are sufficient evidence that they have fulfilled their mandate to procreate. Nevertheless, they wish to continue to express their love without its personification. Alas, they undertake to thwart conception - their end - but by what means? Their choices are legion.

But wait a minute: in so far as thwarting conception is ALWAYS a calculated and, therefore, an unnatural act, how can any means which thwarts conception ever be considered good?

“Hold on,” you say. “NFP is just that, natural.” Is it really? Only in a mechanical sense! And, I could argue, NFP is akin to lust in mind: you desired sexual intercourse, you reveled in the thought of its passion but “ARRRG!,” you were foiled - by the inopportune presence of an egg. You just sinned, mate!

You see, in a behavioral sense, NFP is unnatural, i.e., it unnaturally curtails natural behaviors that, per se, are not evil. And please spare me rejoinders about the flesh. Here I am celebrating the natural loving relationship between married couples, the personification of whose love is deleterious - for whatever reason.

When I view lovers in marriage, I do not see mechanics apart from behaviors, in turn apart from legalese. I see expressions of love between two committed souls, if I may, who are responding to the moment. To me it’s like the shepherd: “What, my ewe is missing? Round up the men and let’s go find her.” Sadly, I hear many posters castigating the shepherd because he violated “the law.”

All of this leads me to a conundrum. Based on my conscience - which declares that ALL means (behaviorally or mechanically) that are expressly designed to thwart contraception are unnatural, how can any means be considered other than evil?

I urge people to rely on their conscience (presumed to be “informed”) and follow the timeless teaching of Aquinas. Before making any choice in life, pray and discern what is “right” for you, at that moment, based on your situation and, prompted by the Holy Spirit, just be and do, and commit an act of love, like the poor old woman.

May God Bless,

Monk

 

[tearez]

I’ve used artificial contraceptives and found out that it was wrong to do so, so I stopped. I didn’t know why, I didn’t have an explanation, I just knew that it was wrong so I obeyed the Church’s teaching on the matter…

I didn’t want to get pregnant so I prayed and trusted in the Lord to keep my womb closed and He did. Isn’t that what this is all about…trusting in the Lord? Having faith in Him instead of man?

I’m not saying this to be stupid and irresponsible but to be obedient and trusting in Him and His Church.

TM-CVB