Why Is Sexual Orientation Anyone's Business?

[SuperLuigi]

=BOProof;11416699]So is fecundity relevant to whether it’s OK to be open about your relationship status?

In the post I responded, you were comparing interracial straight marriage to gay relationships.

Race is not a boundary for fecundity and that’s a key legal and economic reason why resistance to interracial marraige faded.

I’ve always considered fecundity (as well as sexual health in general) to be one of those things that is almost never other people’s business.

Well, if people gay or straight want their relationship recognized and subsidized via a government contract, it pretty much becomes “other people’s business” by sheer default.

If you’re talking about more personal interactions, then I would say it’s okay to be discreet. I don’t think people need to advertise their sexual preferences and for those who want to guess at it, well, don’t judge a book by its cover.

One thing to remember is that some people are just nosy by nature, and it may not even be in the context of trying to offend you just because of your sexual preference.

This last point was my main reason for posting in this thread.

Well, I’m glad you did and it’s good to get your perspective!

 

[BOProof]

In the post I responded, you were comparing interracial straight marriage to gay relationships.

Actually, I was using interracial marriage as an example of how a person’s sacred religious beliefs can:

1 Be wrong
2 Oppress others
3 Make those who hold the belief feel offended by the targeted group exercising the same rights everyone else enjoys

In the immediate context in which I brought it up, I was responding to someone who said something like, “Homosexuality offends the religious beliefs of many people, so they shouldn’t be open about their relationship like others can (displaying couple’s photo, wearing a wedding ring, talking about one’s spouse, etc.).” From the perspective of just about anyone who is OK with gay people getting married, the comment I was responding to fits the three criteria above.

EDIT: That post to which I was responding to was post 43. He outright states that a same-sex couple shouldn’t wear a wedding ring because it’s offensive to people’s sacred beliefs.

Well, if people gay or straight want their relationship recognized and subsidized via a government contract, it pretty much becomes “other people’s business” by sheer default.

If you’re talking about more personal interactions, then I would say it’s okay to be discreet. I don’t think people need to advertise their sexual preferences and for those who want to guess at it, well, don’t judge a book by its cover.

I was talking about sexual health being private, and you’re jumping to sexual relationships (i.e., marriage) being public. Those are two different things.

I think that sexual relationships are somewhat of a public matter (if one spouse is dying, the hospital needs to know to allow the other spouse to visit), while matters of sexual health (e.g., whether they can have a child, if they are having problems in the bedroom, etc.) are very much a private matter.

People can get married (at least civilly) while individually infertile, too old, or not able/willing to have children for whatever reason.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Deceit and protectiveness aren’t mutually exclusive; In fact, protectiveness is usually a motive for deceit.

Sure, I agree. But not telling someone you are gay is not deceit. I suppose, if they ask point blank in an appropriate context, lying might be deceitful. But ordinarily we have a right to our closets (not that I endorse closets, generally).

Note: I think our dispute about lying/deceit is mostly just a verbal dispute, so I’m glad to drop it.

That’s generally true, but due in part to the assumption that most people have that people are straight, not coming out to certain friends/family as gay over time can require a certain amount of pretending to be straight.

Hmmm. I guess I just didn’t experience this, so I can’t comment on it. I always wanted a relationship with a girl, despite my attraction to men. So I didn’t need to pretend to be interested in girls.

For example, people commonly complain that their gay friend acted and sounded more “gay” after coming out. They often attribute this to him/her conforming to a gay stereotype, when reality is the opposite. Usually what’s really going on in cases like those is that the “gay” acting is just what is natural for that person’s personality, but he/she avoided doing what’s natural for him/her in order to avoid arousing the suspicion of others. When such a person is freed from that kind of deceit, they can begin to be themselves around others.

Perhaps I’m wrong about this, but I have observed that this “natural” behavior is often just a new kind of pretending. Not always, but often.

I too have a generally loving family.

I have, under very shameful circumstance and in a very inappropriate way, been asked point blank by my mother. Although I lied and was very ashamed at the time, but in the long run it was probably better that I be asked in that way than not be asked at all.

If I’m reading between the lines correctly here, the more accurate description would be to say that you were “caught” in a compromising situation of some sort. I agree that such experiences are usually better in the long run, because they force us to face up to our own actions and the cognitive dissonance that plays out in our thoughts and behaviors. But I’m not sure that this is merely a matter of sexual orientation – rather, it’s a matter of behaviors.

For myself, resorting to behaviors like looking at erotic materials was something that I was fueled by shame and hiding, and only served to reinforce that shame and hiding. Being caught doing such a thing is one way for God to begin to lead me to honesty, but I don’t think it’s the ideal way.

(Sorry if I assumed too much about the situation you referred to!)

As inappropriate as the question was, it permitted me to begin the process of being honest with myself, that is, admit that “gay” is a label that applies to me (something that had not even crossed my mind before, even though I was 18 and never interested in girls, and obviously attracted to guy). Such self-honesty is required before being honest with family (which followed) and friends.

You’re definitely right about that. But I think, increasingly, children of today’s culture won’t have the same sort of struggle to be honest with themselves that you and I had.

At times, such honesty can be needed in order to improve one’s well-being (even if you think that your sexuality should be repressed because homosexuality is a sin).

I don’t think any reasonable person believes that homosexuality is a sin. Many people believe that it is a *disposition *to sin, however. There is a big difference.

It is in the interest of family members to care about the well-being of other family members, which is why one’s sexuality can (with many limitations of course) legitimately be a matter of concern for family members.

This last point was my main reason for posting in this thread.

I appreciate that, and I agree that it is a valid matter of concern for family members. But so is anything that we hide and are ashamed of. So I don’t think there’s anything special about sexual orientation, in this respect. In all cases, we should have the goal of deepening relationships and honesty. But often times, asking direct questions isn’t the best way to do that.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I’m leaving for NCYC, but thank you, everyone, for your contribution and thoughts on this! I felt a lot of support I wasn’t feeling before, and I really appreciate it!

 

[on_the_hill]

Who asks this? In mixed company I would never ask such a thing. I have asked close friends and family who I had a relationship with that I could ask such things. But who honestly is going around seriously asking “Are you gay?” To someone?

People haven’t asked me directly, but they have assumed it about me.

 

[Ophelia23]

I get it. I really do.

I am married and have four kids. So I can just laugh it off and not care what people think. I might not be inclined to have such an attitude if I was not married had no kids and always had to defend myself.

For the record. I am a big tough guy.

I cry. A lot, movies, shows, and even some commercials (curse you hallmark!). Sometimes even when I am just sharing feelings or a conversation.

I LOVE musicals. Les Mis, Miss Saigon, Wizard of OZ, Mary Poppins Sound of Music. Phantom of the Opera

I actually get into baking shows. (ok, I am a little fat)

I am a stay at home dad, who complains about the laundry, cooking, and how I get no recognition for my efforts. (Ah, I understand what mom was always talking about now.)

Though I play all sports, Tennis is my ultimate love.

I like ballet, and Ice Dancing. I think they can be the ultimate proof of God’s hand in the human soul and proof of our special place separate from the animals.

I can respect and say without any hesitation what so ever, that Chuck Norris is a beautiful man.

Haha… this post made me laugh. Way to embrace yourself, man!

 

[BOProof]

I’m leaving for NCYC, but thank you, everyone, for your contribution and thoughts on this! I felt a lot of support I wasn’t feeling before, and I really appreciate it!

I wish you the best.

I too considered a religious life before. Regardless of whether you continue down that path or a different one, don’t let the opinion and/or speculation on the part of others about your sexuality hold you back in life.

 

[BOProof]

Perhaps I’m wrong about this, but I have observed that this “natural” behavior is often just a new kind of pretending. Not always, but often.

Sometimes, acting “gay” can be a bit like the gay equivalent to a young guy acting like a jock (in the sense that both of which are exaggerations which mostly last only for a few years when a person is coming into their own). At other times, it’s just the result of someone finally being free to be themselves in a way they weren’t able to before. Often, it’s a bit of both.

But I’m not sure that this is merely a matter of sexual orientation – rather, it’s a matter of behaviors.

Behavior and sexual orientation cannot be fully divorced, even the the distinction can be useful at times. That can be an entire topic all by itself, but for this discussion it suffices to say the expectations of others can attach a lot of shame to “gay” all by itself, even if one never looks at erotic material.

Additional shame does make it worse though.

You’re definitely right about that. But I think, increasingly, children of today’s culture won’t have the same sort of struggle to be honest with themselves that you and I had.

I think that the reason why issues around genuineness about one’s sexuality are becoming less of a problem, in part, is because of more openness on the issue. Occasionally, too much indiscriminate openness about what you ask another person can be inappropriate and intrusive.

I don’t think any reasonable person believes that homosexuality is a sin. Many people believe that it is a *disposition *to sin, however. There is a big difference.

I understand that the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that having same-sex attraction is a sin. My point was that being genuine about being gay/bisexual is good for one’s well-being regardless of whether or not you think that same-sex sex is somehow evil.

I appreciate that, and I agree that it is a valid matter of concern for family members. But so is anything that we hide and are ashamed of. So I don’t think there’s anything special about sexual orientation, in this respect.

Sexual orientation is unique in that it is very personal, private, and yet also public. The only way in which it’s not public is if it’s never reflected in any of one’s relationships (or one is uber secretive about one’s relationships), which makes living a good life hard.