“The poor will always be with you no matter how much money you throw at them” a typical reaction from a conservative Capitalist.I am talking about odd jobs, harvesting crops, doing real physical WORK. I am not talking about white-collar jobs in offices, I am talking about hard physical work. Read The Grapes of Wrath, that book is pretty near to true for what people went through. It was tough times but still, people WORKED and had their pride and dignity. No one wanted to take charity, and there was no unemployment insurance.
I am not saying it was easy, and believe me, I have heard the stories, since my father became a teenager old enough to work the harvest in 1930. But men did work and were proud of that, and were ashamed to have to take from anyone because it said to the world that they could not provide for their families.
We’ve lost much of that through government welfare programs that kill men’s pride and spirit. It is good to work, it is what we need to do in order to keep our heads up and giving to people without a requirement for work in exchange is a bad thing.
Jesus said, “The poor will always be with you,” and they are, no matter how much money we try to throw at them. As always, most of the money is spent on bureaucracy and wasted on foolishness.
The Church is supposed to be the mechanism to care for widows and orphans. We work, we receive our wages, we tithe to the church, the church helps care for those who don’t have anyone to care for them. We also do mission work or ministries to help out. Simple, isn’t it?
Confusion worse confounded.Black_Rose
Why was there 25% unemployment during the Great Depression…
the progressive welfare-statist reforms of the New Deal
, Dr Woods, Regnery, 2009, p 102].Confusion worse confounded.
Hoover’s unprecedented interventions turned the 1929 downturn into the great Depression and FDR’s New Deal prolonged it.
From 1929 to 1933, when prices and wages were artificially propped up by the federal government, real consumption declined by 19%, GNP dropped by 19%, and real gross investment fell by 91%. [See *Meltdown
The wisdom of the Church is not to let a higher group do what a lower group is capable of doing. For instance families, businessmen, and doctors are capable of carrying on their own affairs without being taken over by the government. But there is a political slant in the air today that things are done by private people who are greedy, selfish and care for no one but themselves. Therefore, they always look to government for the solution. Is the government that trustworthy? It seems that many do not care as long as they can get the taxpayer to pay for what they want. Providentially, the standard social principle of the Church is called SUBSIDIARITY.False – and mocking the wisdom of the Church in outright condemnation of socialism – “I likewise, will remain in my convictions as a faithful Catholic” (post #709). How faithful!
Nothing shows the ignorance abroad better than the above which presumes that free enterprise economic laws cause depressions instead of the foolish shenanigans of governments and central bank officials. Whereas nothing ever done according to socialist philosophy has enabled or can enable the wealth creation and distribution achieved by following free enterprise laws. Nothing is so obvious as the refusal to face reality in the fact of the untold millions enabled to participate in wealth creation and escape from dire poverty. The results of the machinations of politicians and bureaucrats is blissfully unknown or blithely ignored.
Face Reality
Unlike the sharp depression of 1920-21 which was sensibly handled, the Great Depression was caused by pumping money into the economy.
Alan Greenspan has highlighted the “excess credit which the Fed pumped into the economy," resulting, finally, in an American economic collapse. The collapse of which Greenspan wrote was, of course, the Great Depression beginning in 1929 and extending, mostly, until 1941. This judgment which Greenspan makes about the “excess credit” that directly brought about the Great Depression was made in a 1966 article in Ayn Rand’s Objectivist magazine and subsequently republished in Rand’s Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.[2]
[2] Alan Greenspan, “Gold and Economic Freedom” in Ayn Rand’s Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal (New York: Penguin, 1987), pp. 20ff.
As Federal Reserve chairman between 1987 and 2006, Greenspan acted even more irresponsibly than the Fed officials he was criticizing. Rather than, “sopping up the excess reserves,” Greenspan added even more, transforming a stock market bubble into a housing and consumer spending bubble of historic and unprecedented proportions.[3]
[3] Peter Schiff, *Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse *(Hoboken, NJ: John Wiley & Sons, Inc., 2007), pp. xiii-xiv.
[From Peter Chojnowski, Ph.D].
It is so convenient to ignore the facts when it suits.
The reader might notice that the life expectancy of people in the West has taken tremendous leaps since the 1800s. Why? Because in the West the free market system has discovered ways to create wealth. Much of that created wealth goes into the paychecks of households and is spent on medical care. But where did the medical care come from? It comes from the fact that some people and the “evil” corporations take their discretionary income and save it. This money is then used to develop diagnostic medical equipment, medicines, and surgical equipment, and support medical schools which train practitioners who are able to use these great things for the health of every patient. This is apart from the huge increases in living standards from the poverty before free enterprise was developed.
[See Dr William Luckey: http://www.drwilliamluckey.com/index.cfm/Economics-Errors]
False, as in “The CC did NOT develop a Free Market Economy” (your post #630), as in post #709 “I don’t see capitalism in the Bible”! The lack of knowledge is appalling, and prejudices unlimited.Cruxis117
the Church…in the Catechism…they also reject Capitalism as you would have it.
1998, p 231; Cf. Stark, op. cit. p 57,58, 254].False, as in “The CC did NOT develop a Free Market Economy” (your post #630), as in post #709 “I don’t see capitalism in the Bible”! The lack of knowledge is appalling, and prejudices unlimited.
From to “What there is a problem with is Pure, Unadulterated Capitalism, which does not and should not ever exist,” (your post #633), to unbridled capitalism “that the U.S. is trying to achieve.” (Post #654). From condemning what does not exist, to fantasising over imagined policies that no one has ever seen because they do not exist!
You’ve already distorted Scripture over Christ and possessions; you’ve confused politics and economics; you’ve denigrated the Church’s condemnation of socialism by extolling “the beauty of a socialistic system” – all of that plus the latest is further displaying prejudices, feelings, desires – empty rhetoric.
How strange that you should fantasise that the CCC rejects “Capitalism as (I) would have it.” It illustrates the still prejudiced, jaundiced view of tilting at windmills. There is nothing as “I would have it.” What has been offered are the laws of economics as developed by the Late Scholastics of the Catholic Church, Her condemnation of socialism, and Her repeated support through the Popes of that free enterprise which operates within the rule of law, and her condemnation of immoral practices, whether in economics, science , politics or anything else.
What needs to be realised is that the Catholic Church built Western civilisation and that applies to every field of endeavour.
Long before the so-called “Protestant work ethic”, the rise of the West was due to an extraordinary faith in reason, influenced by Greek philosophy, which resulted from Catholic theology and doctrine, unlike Greek religion. Free enterprise “evolved, beginning early in the ninth century, by Catholic monks…seeking to ensure the economic security of their monastic estates.”(The Victory of Reason, Rodney Stark, Random House, 2005, p 55].
St Augustine taught that wickedness was not inherent in commerce, that price was a function not simply of the seller’s costs, bit also of the buyer’s wants, and it was up to the individual to live righteously. Politics I, 1254]. Thus legitimacy was acquired by merchants, and the deep involvement of the Church in the birth of free enterprise. [Stephen P Bensch, *Historiography: Medieval European and Mediterranean Slavery
, Dr Woods, Regnery, 2009, p 102].Confusion worse confounded.
Hoover’s unprecedented interventions turned the 1929 downturn into the great Depression and FDR’s New Deal prolonged it.
From 1929 to 1933, when prices and wages were artificially propped up by the federal government, real consumption declined by 19%, GNP dropped by 19%, and real gross investment fell by 91%. [See *Meltdown
This because of the fact that from 1933 to 1940 the unemployment rate averaged 18%, and in the first three quarters of 1937 money wages rose by 13.7% through union activity which reduced employment and economic activity slowed.athair_siochain
Always Blame the Unions for 18% out of work,Why not blame the employers for not supplying jobs when needed,
I have been involved with economics for more than a decade,. business people do not set up shop to create work for surplus workers . they set up to make a profit. a large profit. workers are tools . saying jobs are not manufactured out of thin air, shows that those who create jobs are the ones we should blame when the surplus workforce is 18%,.This because of the fact that from 1933 to 1940 the unemployment rate averaged 18%, and in the first three quarters of 1937 money wages rose by 13.7% through union activity which reduced employment and economic activity slowed.
This is an elegant example of the incredible lack of knowledge of economic laws, as though jobs are manufactured out of thin air.
The understanding of free enterprise and the laws developed by the Catholic Late Scholastics is reflected by Pope Pius XI, 1931, in Quadragesimo Anno:
“72. In determining the amount of the wage, the condition of a business and of the one carrying it on must also be taken into account; for it would be unjust to demand excessive wages which a business cannot stand without its ruin and consequent calamity to the workers.”
.
1998, p 231; Cf. Stark, op. cit. p 57,58, 254].False, as in “The CC did NOT develop a Free Market Economy” (your post #630), as in post #709 “I don’t see capitalism in the Bible”! The lack of knowledge is appalling, and prejudices unlimited.
From to “What there is a problem with is Pure, Unadulterated Capitalism, which does not and should not ever exist,” (your post #633), to unbridled capitalism “that the U.S. is trying to achieve.” (Post #654). From condemning what does not exist, to fantasising over imagined policies that no one has ever seen because they do not exist!
You’ve already distorted Scripture over Christ and possessions; you’ve confused politics and economics; you’ve denigrated the Church’s condemnation of socialism by extolling “the beauty of a socialistic system” – all of that plus the latest is further displaying prejudices, feelings, desires – empty rhetoric.
How strange that you should fantasise that the CCC rejects “Capitalism as (I) would have it.” It illustrates the still prejudiced, jaundiced view of tilting at windmills. There is nothing as “I would have it.” What has been offered are the laws of economics as developed by the Late Scholastics of the Catholic Church, Her condemnation of socialism, and Her repeated support through the Popes of that free enterprise which operates within the rule of law, and her condemnation of immoral practices, whether in economics, science , politics or anything else.
What needs to be realised is that the Catholic Church built Western civilisation and that applies to every field of endeavour.
Long before the so-called “Protestant work ethic”, the rise of the West was due to an extraordinary faith in reason, influenced by Greek philosophy, which resulted from Catholic theology and doctrine, unlike Greek religion. Free enterprise “evolved, beginning early in the ninth century, by Catholic monks…seeking to ensure the economic security of their monastic estates.”(The Victory of Reason, Rodney Stark, Random House, 2005, p 55].
St Augustine taught that wickedness was not inherent in commerce, that price was a function not simply of the seller’s costs, bit also of the buyer’s wants, and it was up to the individual to live righteously. Politics I, 1254]. Thus legitimacy was acquired by merchants, and the deep involvement of the Church in the birth of free enterprise. [Stephen P Bensch, *Historiography: Medieval European and Mediterranean Slavery
You have confirmed that “your economics” has nothing to do with real economics.athair_siochain
saying jobs are not manufactured out of thin air, shows that those who create jobs are the ones we should blame when the surplus workforce is 18%,
Try really listening to the Popes and Christ instead of failed liberation theology and the Karl Marx of the failed and discredited Communism.frantony
Are we talking here about the Church established by Jesus Christ (from Nazerath) here, and of Socialism where everybody gets according to his needs and everybody gives according to his capacity?
Evidently, you haven’t read previous posts very thoroughly.Are we talking here about the Church established by Jesus Christ (from Nazerath) here, and of Socialism where everybody gets according to his needs and everybody gives according to his capacity?
*“If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
"Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Matthew 5:42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
“Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?”
“The lowly will possess the land and will live in peace and prosperity.”
Luke 6:49 But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."*
From the above teachings of Jesus, if it seems to anybody that He was preaching “Capitalism” they are either hypocrites like the Pharisees of Jesus’ time who just wants to use God’s words and the clergy to justify their sins and mis-deeds, or they must be in need of some psychiatric help.
The stories (parables) of the talents given to three servants and about seeds that fell in fertile ground and on the rocks, are about God’s Word (Gospel Truths), and not about dollars issued from the U.S Treasury which will be worthless in heaven (and soon also on earth if things are going the way they are going now)
Real Economics ? with great respect there is no real economics, all smoke and mirrors , more corruption and deceit. one has only to watch the money markets, the US Dollar has been devalued against other currencies , this was no accident. it was manufactured by investors and entrepreneurs. (landlords and moneylenders) the looses young families with mortgage millstone around their necks,You have confirmed that “your economics” has nothing to do with real economics.
Jobs arise when investors and entrepreneurs combine to produce a product which consumers wish to purchase at a price they are willing to pay and those jobs require employees including managers and marketing. If the business is successful it can expand and employ more people, if not it may contract or disappear.
When government and central bank intervention distorts the conditions with such as “stimuli”, more money creation and more borrowing, as German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned in November 2008, this would produce “the seeds of a similar crisis in five years time.” (Meltdown, Dr Woods, Regnery, 2009, p 7).
cobdencentre.org/2010/04/catholic-social-conscience-talk-philip-booth/
By Toby Baxendale, on 14 April, 2010:
“When the state acts it undermines the autonomy of individuals, families, businesses, charities, cooperatives, mutuals and professional and civil associations to act separately and in solidarity to meet the varied needs of families and the joint needs of the community in their own ways. We also frequently find that the result of government action is often precisely the opposite of that intended. If we do not like what we see in a market economy then our response should be to promote virtue, not big government.”
July 19, 2010: Of the world’s biggest economies, only the U.S., Britain and Italy are still contracting. All three are big stimulators, (The Keynesian idiocy) though Gordon Brown and Silvio Berlusconi can’t compete with Obama’s $800 billion fiasco… The president has borrowed more money to spend to less effect than anybody on the planet. (July, 2010). Unlike America, France and Germany had no government stimulus worth speaking of.
[Mark Steyn]](Mark Steyn])
Perhaps the countries they originate from are a lot worse than the US such as people from Mexico or Central American countries or refugees from the Middle East or Africa. Does the same phenomenon happen with immigrants from France, Denmark, Sweden, or Canada?Why is it that a foreign-born naturalized citizen can frequently be more enamored with our country than its citizens???
Come to Canada folks and meet the Americans who have fled the country because of their governments greedy wars.Evidently, you haven’t read previous posts very thoroughly.
Socialism doesn’t work–sounds great but is, and always has been corrupted. Its “equality” is and always has been a myth; just ask those who’ve fled socialist or communist nations for the U.S. People in socialist nations are equally miserable, that’s all.
…and why did so many choose to come to the U.S.from such countries? Because its (the U.S.) gov’t is perfect? Because capitalism is ideal? None of the above. It’s because a capitalist system, while not ideal, obviously trumps the enslavement of socialism and communism since it offers (or should offer) individual freedom.
Those of you who keep arguing for socialism or communism should do this: Go live in one of these countries for a year or two, then get back to us and tell us how ‘free’ you felt reporting every little detail of your life to the nanny state, controlling government.
If you still don’t understand, I’m afraid I’ve done all I can to warn you. Don’t blame any of us here who are trying to educate you a bit on this, if this country goes socialist and you suddenly wake to find you have no more rights or freedom. Remember–we tried to warn you. And please…remember all this when you vote! The so-called “liberal” legislators are the ones who are working the hardest to take away rights and control all they can.
Signing off…
Mao’s China is a Fascist Country, not Communist. That’s like saying Medieval Europe was a Democracy, and that’s like saying Nazi Germany was open to all races and people.Another saga of free enterprisemsnbc.msn.com/id/39656218/ns/business-us_business/
PITTSBURGH 10/13/2010
Proud employees of a small drilling company too remote to have cable television found themselves Wednesday at the center of the world’s biggest news story — but they still had to get the day’s work done.
Free enterprise is the mother of invention, which is why 33 miners in Chile are alive today:
If those miners had been trapped a half-mile down like this 25 years ago anywhere on earth, they would be dead. What happened over the past 25 years that meant the difference between life and death for those men?
Short answer: the Center Rock drill bit.
Predictably, Socialist critics in comments below claim that capitalism created mines in the first place, thus putting the miners’ lives in danger. In fact, humans have mined the earth for more than 40,000 years, under capitalists and communists, tyrants and anarchists. It is not free enterprise but a human desire to better our condition that has men mining today, but it is free enterprise - or freedom generally, including the freedom to complain - that has stimulated the invention of ever-better tools to do that job.
Are Socialists really claiming that the mines of Mao’s China - let alone those of ancient Egypt and Rome - really safer than those of democratic nations today? Even today China’s death rates in mining are way above democratic India’s.
Mortality rates in coal mining in China 2003-2004 are 10 times higher than in India and 100 times higher than in the U.S.A. Free enterprise and democracy have to be continually sought and employed against those useless politicians and useless economists who try to stifle both.