Why is strictness or judgment frowned upon?

[Mourning_Dove]

You’re correct.

I haven’t gone through RCIA yet, so I’ve never taken Communion even though I have been going with family to Mass for a while. I plan on making next weeks RCIA meeting and formally starting the process, and I will be modest in dress without any overt personal expression. I am a fairly modest person by nature, but sometimes I just gotta Rock and Roll.

And trust me, I know Church is not the place for harmless fun loving rebellion, it’s a very serious commitment for me and something I do not take lightly.

I’m kinda growing out of that rebellious phase anyway.

Personal expression has a time and place.

 

[DarkLight]

I’ve been thinking about this. I think, at least in western society, there’s a very fundamental difference between how men’s and women’s bodies and clothing are talked about and treated, and that it can be very hard for one to understand the other.

Fair or not, the dichotomy is generally that women’s bodies are looked at and commented on, while men are expected to look and comment. (I’ll be talking about this from the female side more because I am one.) Most women are used to having an endless stream of commentary and criticism and messages about their looks coming at them from all sides. Cover up, but don’t be dowdy. You have to look attractive or you’ll end up old and alone, but you can’t look slutty, but if you don’t look sexy enough you won’t find a man. Come on, you’re not ashamed of your body, are you, why are you dressed like that? Why are you dressed like that, cover up, have some self-respect?

I think there’s a certain resistance to hearing about it too much in church because we’ve been hearing messages from all sides about what we should and shouldn’t be wearing since before puberty. I’ve definitely heard (and said) complaints that many people treat women’s bodies and attire as a matter of public concern in a way that doesn’t really happen to men. And it can make women feel less safe or less acceptable in church.

As far as women’s modesty is concerned, I think the rule of propriety and prudence should be observed. Men, especially those who are not priests, should generally refrain from telling women outside their own families or minor charges that their attire is immodest. Women have somewhat more leeway, but I would still refrain unless you are close to someone (or again, minors in your care). If you have a dress code, that can generally be communicated without explicit reference to immodesty. I suspect it is also an error to start with “the rules of modesty” to those not properly catechized or not yet catechized in its purpose.

I think it can be very hard for men to grasp the endless focus on clothes that gets pushed on women.

 

[hymin]

I agree with you in the sense that priests would be the most appropriate people to act upon this issue: “He that ruleth, with solicitude” (Rom 12:8) But it is reasonable to say, that parents are most culpable if the issue is neglected. Further, I would go to the catechism and read that full observance of the first commandment pertains to this - particularly where it defines schism: “schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him” (CCC 2089)

Responsible parents who are mature in the Catholic faith would declare their house to be a “domestic church” (cf. Gaudium et Spes, Familiaris consortio, Gratissimam Sane) in all that they do. This would entail a domestic culture that submits to the parish priest in many aspects of family life. This would occur in a “civilization of love” (coined by Bl. Pope Paul VI). I would say to correct the problem with immodesty in boys as well as girls, it is necessary that families say that their pastor is above them in many respects of their life. This type of confession points to the truth. And perhaps, bishops will form the church to denote that aspect of the truth in their competence. It would take courage (a white martyrdom) but the grave nature of the sin I mentioned still stands, and a caring bishop would do all it would take to form parishes with this expectation. The way to go about this ought to be put in the hands of Mary, Totus tuus.