Why is the age of reason set so high?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fakename
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fakename

Guest
Why is the age of reason set so high (7 yrs old)?

I always wondered why the age of reason and responsibility was always set so high? I mean, I remember making choices when I was 4 or 5 so why shouldn’t I be both reasonable and responsible at that age (indeed I think most of my classmates could also make decisions)? And why do people insist on good manners from kids of these ages if they lack reason?
 
Why is the age of reason set so high (7 yrs old)?

I always wondered why the age of reason and responsibility was always set so high? I mean, I remember making choices when I was 4 or 5 so why shouldn’t I be both reasonable and responsible at that age (indeed I think most of my classmates could also make decisions)? And why do people insist on good manners from kids of these ages if they lack reason?
It may have to do with the kind of development that has one recognizing themselves as “discreet” entities, as a separate person, and more capable of distinguishing fantasy and “reality” though those are most often confused in our consensus culture. I is also about the time that the person comes out of what in younger children could be described as a hypnotic state. that is why that Jesuit, whether he was relying on it consciously or not, advocated teaching their religion before 7yo. That might also explain why faithers as a group are so adamant about beliefs of whatever kind, even political, and tend to regress to them even after a brief but incomplete bout with actual reason.

So the age of reason as an actual practical matter may never be reached by some, and it is arrived at often by shock by many, as that will break a spell more effectively than many other things.
 
Why is the age of reason set so high (7 yrs old)?

I always wondered why the age of reason and responsibility was always set so high? I mean, I remember making choices when I was 4 or 5 so why shouldn’t I be both reasonable and responsible at that age (indeed I think most of my classmates could also make decisions)? And why do people insist on good manners from kids of these ages if they lack reason?
I sometimes think the age of reason has been set too dang low…should be at around 35.
 
Why is the age of reason set so high (7 yrs old)?

I always wondered why the age of reason and responsibility was always set so high? I mean, I remember making choices when I was 4 or 5 so why shouldn’t I be both reasonable and responsible at that age (indeed I think most of my classmates could also make decisions)? And why do people insist on good manners from kids of these ages if they lack reason?
As any good Psychology textbook would tell you, children go through different developmental phases as they age. Children also lack real world experience, which is why going to school is mandatory, and parents should guide their behavior.

Behavior is taught. You learn to say please and thank you, to address your elders respectfully and how to deal with strangers and even classmates whose behavior is rude, mean and even out of control. How do very young children learn to speak English at all?

Reason requires knowledge. This knowledge can be figured out in bits and pieces at younger ages, but, if you want be a civilized person then you need to know what the rules are.

Peace,
Ed
 
As any good Psychology textbook would tell you, children go through different developmental phases as they age. Children also lack real world experience, which is why going to school is mandatory, and parents should guide their behavior.

Behavior is taught. You learn to say please and thank you, to address your elders respectfully and how to deal with strangers and even classmates whose behavior is rude, mean and even out of control. How do very young children learn to speak English at all?

Reason requires knowledge. This knowledge can be figured out in bits and pieces at younger ages, but, if you want be a civilized person then you need to know what the rules are.

Peace,
Ed
But the Catholic Encyclopedia says this: The Age of Reason= “The name given to that period of human life at which persons are deemed to begin to be morally responsible.”

So if people are not morally responsible until they are seven, then why do parents praise or blame their children before they are 7? It’s absurd. So that’s one reason why I’d ask why the age is so high.

But again, if people are not morally responsible then they either lack knowledge, or intention. But then why are people taught religion before the age of 7 and are expected to know things before the age of 7? And if they lack intention before the age of 7, then how could we not know it? Wouldn’t there be a bunch of of little automatons running around, no less responsible for what they do then machines or animals?

Quite the contrary, most people tend to think that most people before the age of 7 are capable of being praised or blamed, of learning, and of intending.
 
Why is the age of reason set so high (7 yrs old)?

I always wondered why the age of reason and responsibility was always set so high? I mean, I remember making choices when I was 4 or 5 so why shouldn’t I be both reasonable and responsible at that age (indeed I think most of my classmates could also make decisions)? And why do people insist on good manners from kids of these ages if they lack reason?
The age of reason is usually taken to mean the point where a young person is capable of being considered responsible for their own moral decisions – and for sinful decisions as well, including actions considered mortally sinful. There have occasionally been threads here discussing 7-year-olds going to Hell. Do you really want to set up a premise where 4 or 5 year-olds are thought capable of sufficient moral maturity to make an eternally damnable-eligible action? I’m on the side of those who believe 7 is too low.
 
Why is the age of reason set so high (7 yrs old)?

I always wondered why the age of reason and responsibility was always set so high? I mean, I remember making choices when I was 4 or 5 so why shouldn’t I be both reasonable and responsible at that age (indeed I think most of my classmates could also make decisions)? And why do people insist on good manners from kids of these ages if they lack reason?
I’ve wondered that sometimes too.

However, 7 as the age of reason was actually set as meant to be an upper boundary; basically everyone has reached it by 7 (except for some people with mental disabilities). While most people probably reach the age of reason by 4 or 5, some don’t, so it’s better to set it higher so that it isn’t expected of someone who’s not yet capable of this.
 
I’ve known people who are old enough to have 7 year old greatgrandchildren who aren’t old enougn and 5 year olds that are old enough. 🤷 Seven years old sounds about right for most people. 😛 Most will keep on growing up in all ways. 🙂

One other thing, I don’t think that most seven yaer old is going to hell for what they do wrong. 👍
 
But the Catholic Encyclopedia says this: The Age of Reason= “The name given to that period of human life at which persons are deemed to begin to be morally responsible.”

So if people are not morally responsible until they are seven, then why do parents praise or blame their children before they are 7? It’s absurd. So that’s one reason why I’d ask why the age is so high.

But again, if people are not morally responsible then they either lack knowledge, or intention. But then why are people taught religion before the age of 7 and are expected to know things before the age of 7? And if they lack intention before the age of 7, then how could we not know it? Wouldn’t there be a bunch of of little automatons running around, no less responsible for what they do then machines or animals?

Quite the contrary, most people tend to think that most people before the age of 7 are capable of being praised or blamed, of learning, and of intending.
You should have defined your criteria in the beginning. Your final claim requires a reference that backs it up. Your automatons example is extremist. What happens when a 7 year old finds a gun, knows what it is but accidentally shoots someone with it?

Peace,
Ed
 
You should have defined your criteria in the beginning. Your final claim requires a reference that backs it up. Your automatons example is extremist. What happens when a 7 year old finds a gun, knows what it is but accidentally shoots someone with it?

Peace,
Ed
Less then what would happen to a 14 year old (a lot less). 👍
 
But the Catholic Encyclopedia says this: The Age of Reason= “The name given to that period of human life at which persons are deemed to begin to be morally responsible.”

So if people are not morally responsible until they are seven, then why do parents praise or blame their children before they are 7? It’s absurd. So that’s one reason why I’d ask why the age is so high.
Parents “blame” their children for bad behaviour, but they know that the child isn’t intentionally doing evil - the child did something because it felt good at the time. The parent’s job is to make that kind of behaviour not feel good, so that the child doesn’t choose to repeat it - which is why there is punishment before the age of seven, even though the child didn’t really intend anything evil by his bad behaviour.
Quite the contrary, most people tend to think that most people before the age of 7 are capable of being praised or blamed, of learning, and of intending.
Children under the age of seven are certainly capable of doing things that their elders don’t like them to do, but a child under the age of seven isn’t thinking, “I’d like to really upset my mother - I think I’ll do this.” No. The child is usually actually thinking, “Mom isn’t looking, so she won’t be upset, and it will be okay.” The child isn’t capable of realizing that some things are bad in and of themselves, no matter who’s looking or not looking. That’s why they need to be taught.
 
The age of reason is usually taken to mean the point where a young person is capable of being considered responsible for their own moral decisions – and for sinful decisions as well, including actions considered mortally sinful. There have occasionally been threads here discussing 7-year-olds going to Hell. Do you really want to set up a premise where 4 or 5 year-olds are thought capable of sufficient moral maturity to make an eternally damnable-eligible action? I’m on the side of those who believe 7 is too low.
It’s not an (obvious) contradiction to say that 4 year olds can go to hell.

And indeed, if the age of reason is too high, then that means 4 year olds can go to heaven.
 
I’ve wondered that sometimes too.

However, 7 as the age of reason was actually set as meant to be an upper boundary; basically everyone has reached it by 7 (except for some people with mental disabilities). While most people probably reach the age of reason by 4 or 5, some don’t, so it’s better to set it higher so that it isn’t expected of someone who’s not yet capable of this.
Except the same Encyclopedia says: “This, as a rule, happens at the age of seven, or thereabouts, though the use of reason requisite for moral discernment may come before, or may be delayed until notably after, that time.”

So “as a rule” that is in the vast majority of cases, the age is 7 and indeed, the maximum age may be above 7.
 
You should have defined your criteria in the beginning. Your final claim requires a reference that backs it up. Your automatons example is extremist. What happens when a 7 year old finds a gun, knows what it is but accidentally shoots someone with it?

Peace,
Ed
I thought I defined my criteria, for I was talking about the “age of reason”.

Also, although my automaton example was extreme it was not illogical.

There are other possibilities that I did not fully discharge yet though.

(1) Either the child has intention only and no knowledge. In this case, he cannot be praised or blamed. So the child has to have some knowledge.

(2) The child has knowledge but no intention. However knowledge implies attention, for the mind must apply itself to learning in order to know. So the child must have more than mere knowledge.

In either case, the child has the rudiments of moral decision-making.

(3) I don’t know what you are getting at RE: the child with the gun?

Clearly if the child has no responsibility for his actions then he cannot have accidentally fired the gun (for accidental implies that he had an intent). But if he does accidentally fire the gun and he does have intention, then he incurs no disapprobation since he was invincibly ignorant as far as I think you would be concerned, no?
 
Parents “blame” their children for bad behaviour, but they know that the child isn’t intentionally doing evil - the child did something because it felt good at the time. The parent’s job is to make that kind of behaviour not feel good, so that the child doesn’t choose to repeat it - which is why there is punishment before the age of seven, even though the child didn’t really intend anything evil by his bad behaviour.

Children under the age of seven are certainly capable of doing things that their elders don’t like them to do, but a child under the age of seven isn’t thinking, “I’d like to really upset my mother - I think I’ll do this.” No. The child is usually actually thinking, “Mom isn’t looking, so she won’t be upset, and it will be okay.” The child isn’t capable of realizing that some things are bad in and of themselves, no matter who’s looking or not looking. That’s why they need to be taught.
(1) Children can be totally lacking in moral responsibility in that they have no will or intellect that is actually operating. In this case they would be like those in vegetative states or perhaps like automatons. Or it is possible that they lack one or the other part of responsibility in which case they would be like the retarded. According to what you wrote, obviously children cannot be vegetative.

(2) However problems still arise regarding the age of reason and what is described in the quoted post. Firstly, the child needs “to be taught”. So in that case they must be more than automata. They must clearly have the ability to know. In that case, again they have the ability to intend, for to learn actually is to apply (that is, to intend) the intellect to one’s imaginings in such a way that one can classify data under some quality or predicate or species. But also, if children could not know, then it is absurd for people to try and educate children before the age of 7. In that case pre-k and kindergarden is a total waste and children actually don’t know math until they are 7.

(3) Secondly, you say “thinking”. But a thinking person has an active mind and as such, he can be convinced of different and opposing ideas. So it is contingent that children think that “i’ll do this because mom won’t be upset” and not true that all the time, children think that things are good or bad only because of incidental reasons.

(4) Thirdly, if parents don’t really blame children, then parents are only speaking metaphorically or poetically when they say “you are naughty”. But I doubt that most parents are merely speaking in similes or metaphors. Indeed, saying “play nice” would also be mere metaphor like if we call an animal “intelligent”.

(5) Fourthly you said “choose”. Now a child supposedly does not choose in the full sense of the word for he does not have either intention or knowledge. So then it is in vain for parents to correct their children through punishments since the child does not even begin to become “corrected” (except perhaps metaphorically) unless it has full knowledge and intent. For it is admitted that children have no responsibility and so, one cannot correct that which is not even morally responsible for anything. Indeed, such would not even be punishments but mere “conditioning”. Punishment would only apply to people 7 and up. Of course one could say that parenting very young people is just conditioning and only conditioning but is that what you really mean to say? If so, then why are children praised for making good friends before they are 7 and why are children supposed to learn reading and basic counting before they are 7? All this praise then is just fake praise and the children didn’t even learn anything probably. These conclusions seem absurd though.
 
Put it this way. Sin, particularly mortal sin, is an extremely nuanced concept. One must have knowledge of the gravity of your action, as well as full consent (and remember things like impulsivity and immaturity of themelves affect one’s ability to freely consent).

I’d say there’s a whole lot more complexity to it than there is in the behaviours that parents may find blameworthy and punish or praiseworthy and reward.

I mean we tell even extremely young children ‘good boy/girl’ or ‘bad boy/girl’ about certain things, and may give young toddlers a time out for being naughty or a kiss for being good. But we don’t credit them with the level of moral sophistication of a child over the age of seven - as shown in the fact that we wouldn’t dream of insisting that a two-or three-year old child go to confession for the things we might give them time out for!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top