Why is the Catholic Church Anti-gun?

[Rob_s_Wife]

Black Jaque:

I see that the USCCB and even my homestate’s Catholic lobby is anti-gun.

I’ve read through some of the material, and so far I can’t see them citing any particular teaching that this stems from. It appears that the Church is just approaching this as a matter of prudential judgement.

Is it OK to disagree?

I’m kind of annoyed that my tithe is going toward this type of lobbying.

sigh Yes, a bit annoying at times. It is NOT a part of Canon or tradition even, it is just popular opinion of many vocal leaders within the Church. You are allowed to disagree with it.

 

[WorBlux]

manualman:

I think this is one of those issues that is unecessarily politicized. There are valid points to be made on both sides of the argument.

Here’s my solution for handguns.

1. You gotta have a FOID card to own a gun or buy ammo.
2. Only licensed dealers in fixed locations can sell guns.
3. Every gun made must have its ballistic signature recorded and filed by serial number and dealer it was sold to.
4. Dealers must keep records of who buys what gun by serial number.
5. Individuals CAN’T sell guns, except back to licensed dealers.
6. Dealers must track used gun sales just like new ones.
7. Handguns are limited to two per person. Gotta trade an old one to get a new one.
8. Background checks and 48 hour waiting period for all handgun sales. No felons eligible to own one.
9. All handguns must include a built-in locking mechanism on the hammer that requires a key to unlock.

There. Any law abiding citizen can own a gun. Dealers, not the government have the names of who owns them. Probably not cheap since I just eliminated all gun shows and private sales and required an expensive lock mechanism, but tough. Plus cops have at least a decent shot at finding the owner of a gun by tracking the signature of the bullet in a victim.

You are overlooking the fact that is possible to manufacture a simple handgun and ammo with commonly availible materials.

“STOP in the name of the law! Or I shall be forced to say STOP! again.” -Brittish police officer.

 

[DreadVandal]

bones_IV:

No,no, no. Hunting for the sport is always wrong. But you can hunt for them for food. What wrong with that?

Since when has hunting for sport been immoral? What is wrong with taking enjoyment in the conquest of animals, rightly made subject to us by God?

 

[wabrams]

Libero:

Is that any suprise? Times change, crime itself would have increased even if we did have guns. Guns are more readily avaliable, and also more people live in the UK. Religion plays a less important role, thus making crime seem less of an issue.

We have just chosen not to employ the rather uneffective method of fighting fire with fire.

In other words, your position was proven wrong and you don’t want to admit it.

 

[Brendan]

Libero:

Is that any suprise? Times change, crime itself would have increased even if we did have guns. Guns are more readily avaliable, and also more people live in the UK. Religion plays a less important role, thus making crime seem less of an issue.

We have just chosen not to employ the rather uneffective method of fighting fire with fire.

I thought you said that guns were made illegal, so by definition, they are LESS readily available, right

And why did gun use in crime Increase so much in Austrailia in 6 years? Did the population increase that much?

 

[Brendan]

WorBlux:

You are overlooking the fact that is possible to manufacture a simple handgun and ammo with commonly availible materials.

“STOP in the name of the law! Or I shall be forced to say STOP! again.” -Brittish police officer.

No kidding, I’ve made a firearm (a rifle) pretty much from scratch myself, a bought a commercial barrel, but I made the stock and action myself. Anyone with basic shop skills and a good set of tools from Home Depot can do the same or better.

Refining crack is far harder, requiring specialized chemicals and some major chemistry expertice and there is no shortage of that stuff.

And as far as serial numbers and balistic fingerprinting, both are so easy to alter it isn’t funny.

a dremmel tool can make quick work of the serial number, and if you are willing to loose a bit of accuracy, a bit of draino and some steel wool will change the ballistic fingerprint.

Also, what would be the point of requiring a person to sell only to a firearms dealer? Do you really think a drug dealer is going to do that?

 

[Libero]

I thought you said that guns were made illegal, so by definition, they are LESS readily available, right

And why did gun use in crime Increase so much in Austrailia in 6 years? Did the population increase that much?

Criminals always have a way, thus the rise in gun crime.

I can’t really comment on Australia (not really my forte)

 

[Libero]

“STOP in the name of the law! Or I shall be forced to say STOP! again.” -Brittish police officer.

In the event of crimes involving guns, then the specialist gun units SO19 shall be used. But really, “stop in the name of the law” events wont involve guns on either side.

 

[Brendan]

Libero:

Criminals always have a way, thus the rise in gun crime.

I can’t really comment on Australia (not really my forte)

Then why pass any gun laws if they don’t affect criminals?

And actually, you DID comment on Australia earlier with your ‘times change’ post?

 

[DaveBj]

manualman:

I think this is one of those issues that is unecessarily politicized. There are valid points to be made on both sides of the argument.

Here’s my solution for handguns.

1. You gotta have a FOID card to own a gun or buy ammo.
2. Only licensed dealers in fixed locations can sell guns.
3. Every gun made must have its ballistic signature recorded and filed by serial number and dealer it was sold to.
4. Dealers must keep records of who buys what gun by serial number.
5. Individuals CAN’T sell guns, except back to licensed dealers.
6. Dealers must track used gun sales just like new ones.
7. Handguns are limited to two per person. Gotta trade an old one to get a new one.
8. Background checks and 48 hour waiting period for all handgun sales. No felons eligible to own one.
9. All handguns must include a built-in locking mechanism on the hammer that requires a key to unlock.

There. Any law abiding citizen can own a gun. Dealers, not the government have the names of who owns them. Probably not cheap since I just eliminated all gun shows and private sales and required an expensive lock mechanism, but tough. Plus cops have at least a decent shot at finding the owner of a gun by tracking the signature of the bullet in a victim.

How about:

1. Automatic death penalty for actually using a firearm in the commission of a felony.

(That oughtta throw some gasoline on the fire )

DaveBj

 

[dljl]

Guar Fan:

If you want to view a bit of anti-gun propaganda (with a lot of humor) Micheal Moore’s Bowling for Columbine explores this territory.

The thought of looking to Michael Moore for any kind of guidance is scary.

 

[wabrams]

Brendan:

No kidding, I’ve made a firearm (a rifle) pretty much from scratch myself, a bought a commercial barrel, but I made the stock and action myself. Anyone with basic shop skills and a good set of tools from Home Depot can do the same or better.

Refining crack is far harder, requiring specialized chemicals and some major chemistry expertice and there is no shortage of that stuff.

And as far as serial numbers and balistic fingerprinting, both are so easy to alter it isn’t funny.

a dremmel tool can make quick work of the serial number, and if you are willing to loose a bit of accuracy, a bit of draino and some steel wool will change the ballistic fingerprint.

Also, what would be the point of requiring a person to sell only to a firearms dealer? Do you really think a drug dealer is going to do that?

Don’t know about using a dremel tool, but if you file the serial numbers off they do have a chemical compound that can be pored of where the serial number was and voila!, there is the serial number.

 

[wabrams]

Guar Fan:

If you want to view a bit of anti-gun propaganda (with a lot of humor) Micheal Moore’s Bowling for Columbine explores this territory.

Or you can check out this site for the truth behind his spin on the truth.
bowlingfortruth.com/

 

[steveandersen]

Brendan:

…And why did gun use in crime Increase so much in Austrailia in 6 years? Did the population increase that much?

Crime rates are cyclical things that are often frustratingly independent of many of the expected variables

If things happen the way they’ve happened before those Australian crime rates will go back down again in a few years regardless of the gun laws

Now the accidental gun related death and injury rates would be a much more interesting and useful statistic to look at.

 

[wabrams]

steveandersen:

Crime rates are cyclical things that are often frustratingly independent of many of the expected variables

If things happen the way they’ve happened before those Australian crime rates will go back down again in a few years regardless of the gun laws

Now the accidental gun related death and injury rates would be a much more interesting and useful statistic to look at.

That’s a cop out: crime doesn’t happen in a vaccum, totally independent of other factors.

 

[2shelbys]

thistle:

I’m British but it seems an odd question you ask.
Everybody in every country should be anti-gun. There is nothing positive about having a gun. Pretending they are needed for self protection is not a valid argument.
In the UK nobody is allowed guns yet gun related murders and crimes are less in our entire country than a major city in the USA.

Sorry Thistle, I can not let you get away with spreading that same old myth. As posted SO many times before, here are some figures on the result of England’s gun laws:

**According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its gun ban in 1997. **

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**In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States. **

"You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. “The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America’s.” The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the study, "the difference between the murder rates in the two countries has narrowed considerably since the laws went into effect."

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The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.

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Your comments should have been “there is nothing positive about gun control”.

 

[2shelbys]

Libero:

Beacuse guns are horrible items, that can perform only one task DEATH.
YAY!!

I guess you have never heard of competitive shooting (as in the olympics). I guess you have also not done enough research to know that on average there are nearly 1.4 million crimes foiled each year in the U.S. without a single shot being fired. I guess you would prefer that those criminals were left to their business.

 

[2shelbys]

thistle:

That might well be legally allowed but it doesn’t make it morally right. The more guns around the more the shootings will happen.

Wrong again. Do some research on the crime rates in states where concealed carry laws have been passed. In EVERY SINGLE ONE crime rates have decreased. Some by double-digit numbers. Compare them to the cities that have bans in effect like D.C. The facts prove that more guns equal less crime, every time. Period.

 

[2shelbys]

However, Crimes with hand guns are a fact, accidents with hand guns are a fact…for those of you who said that the bishops shouldn’t be concerned, couldn’t the case be made that eliminating the weapons is a way of avoiding the temptation to use them and isn’t the physical safety of people part of respecting the dignity of life?

No, because another undeniable fact is that laws NEVER eliminate weapons or anything else for that matter. Gun bans only take guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, not criminals. Every load of drugs seized is accompanied by a load of illegal guns. Drugs are illegal. Are they now non-existant? The idea that laws can magically make all guns go away is a very naive fantasy.

 

[2shelbys]

thistle:

You are simply deluding yourself and trying to find any justification for having a gun.
Your justification too is against the teaching of the Church that the end no matter how good does not justify the means if the means is not good.

Judging by the blatantly false things you have posted about crime and about supposed Church teaching against owning guns I would say that you are the one deluding yourself.