Why is the Catholic Church Anti-gun?

[2shelbys]

Libero:

Yes but you see that is your opinion.

Even though these are supposed reasons, they are ones that do not appeal to me.

I would hate to have to use a gun.

For defence I would rather have a dog or an alarm or gate or something.

My family were all farmers, and none of them had guns for their live stock.

I would just engage in a different sport to shooting (I would probably be really bad at it anyway)

To you, guns seem logical, to me they don’t.

I really doubt that either one of us can sway the others viewpoint

And this is the problem with your whole position. You dismiss completely valid, good reasons to own a gun for no other reason than the fact that they “do not appeal” to you personally. You also feel that no one should have the right to do something they enjoy just because you do not enjoy it. Don’t you realize how arrogant and tyrannical that is of you? Do you think that I should have the right to control what you do based on what I like to do? Stop thinking only about yourself.

 

[siamesecat]

This is an interesting topic. A lot of people argue that if guns are made illegal, only criminals will have them. But whereas a lot of people have them illegally in our cities, no one carries one here so even if some criminal ended up trying to hold up a bank or rob your house, most people dont have a gun, especially close at hand, so it wouldnt be much help to us anyways. The gang members who shoot each other in the inner city seem to be the only ones who have any use for guns. In the South there seems to be more of a need to shoot rabbits and snakes and things, but I live in Masschusetts and NO ONE here has a gun. If you find out someones parents keep a gun, you’re very shocked by it. My parents don’t let us go to people’s houses who have guns unless they know the parents very well and would know it was extremely safely secured. I’m no vegetarian, but I also cant possibly comprehend how anyone can take any pleasure in hunting for sport…to me it shows a scary sadism. I have a heart attack if I almost run over a chipmunk, and if i shot a deer I’d definately be very upset. I know things are different in other parts of the country, but I’m not really sure why we have such a culture divide…you’d get a lot more anti-gun support up here. My opinion is that guns carried by civilians do more harm than good in the awful accidents that can occur with them.

 

[Isidore_AK]

siamesecat:

This is an interesting topic. A lot of people argue that if guns are made illegal, only criminals will have them. But whereas a lot of people have them illegally in our cities, no one carries one here so even if some criminal ended up trying to hold up a bank or rob your house, most people dont have a gun, especially close at hand, so it wouldnt be much help to us anyways. The gang members who shoot each other in the inner city seem to be the only ones who have any use for guns. In the South there seems to be more of a need to shoot rabbits and snakes and things, but I live in Masschusetts and NO ONE here has a gun. If you find out someones parents keep a gun, you’re very shocked by it. My parents don’t let us go to people’s houses who have guns unless they know the parents very well and would know it was extremely safely secured. I’m no vegetarian, but I also cant possibly comprehend how anyone can take any pleasure in hunting for sport…to me it shows a scary sadism. I have a heart attack if I almost run over a chipmunk, and if i shot a deer I’d definately be very upset. I know things are different in other parts of the country, but I’m not really sure why we have such a culture divide…you’d get a lot more anti-gun support up here. My opinion is that guns carried by civilians do more harm than good in the awful accidents that can occur with them.

Whats so very ironic is that the liberal leadership have access to guns. Us ‘normal’ people can’t defend ourselves, but they need armed bodyguards. You’re own esteemed Senator John Kerry admits to owning several firearms- some of which are illegal for most people (during the election he claimed to have brought a ‘chinese assault rifle’ home from Vietnam, not only was this illegal to do in the first place, but I doubt that he has the proper licensing even now…).

You say that ‘gangbangers’ are the only ones who have a use for guns, in the very same breath that you say that ordinary people have no way to defend themselves from a criminal who invades their home or business. Doesn’t that seem unfair to you? The criminal doesn’t care that its illegal to posess the firearm, but he is happily aware that most of the people in your state can’t fight back.

Firearms are the great equalizer of mankind. They do not take excessive amounts of training to learn to use safely. They do not depend on the physical condition of their operator to be effective As an example, just a couple months ago a WWII veteran, age 86, fought off two armed robbers (they had knives) with his vintage WWII German Luger. By their own admission, they had planned on killing the older gentleman after robbing him. Had he not owned a firearm, he would probably now be dead. Women, the elderly, and even children, can effectively use firearms to defend themselves and their families.

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/allpink4803.sized.jpg
from a-human-right.com/ please visit them!

 

[thistle]

2shelbys:

And this is the problem with your whole position. You dismiss completely valid, good reasons to own a gun for no other reason than the fact that they “do not appeal” to you personally. **You also feel that no one should have the right to do something they enjoy just because you do not enjoy it. ** Don’t you realize how arrogant and tyrannical that is of you? Do you think that I should have the right to control what you do based on what I like to do? Stop thinking only about yourself.

Nobody, especially a good Catholic, should ever ENJOY killing!!!

 

[proudnifi]

Nobody, especially a good Catholic, should ever ENJOY killing!!!

Don’t be silly. No one here has suggested that killing people is enjoyable.

I personally find target shooting to be enjoyable. I don’t find the thought of killing someone else to be enjoyable, but I would probably prefer this over him killing me.

 

[she_he]

Black Jaque:

Good idea! Let’s get rid of this sex-ed junk and start requiring gun safety in the public schools. I would go one-step further and say that gun safety should be a required course for everyone who has the *right *to keep and bear arms.

excellent reply, I have been saying for years Gun safety should be taught in the schools, Its mandatory (hunter safety class) for my karate students NO MATTER what age, I always get the same thing from non gun owners, we dont own guns so why require? well what about your childs friend are there guns in that home?
and to my karate parents i reply well you want me to teach your child knife and gun defense, If they are forced to actually have to try the defenses I teach dont you think they should know how to properly handle it if they are lucky enough to succeed?

They require art,gym,and english why not at the very least a hunter safety type of program…
John

 

[she_he]

2shelbys:

Another interesting statistic is the fact that suicide accounts for the majority of gun-related deaths at a yearly average of about 56% and only about the same percentage of all suicides involve a gun. This is from the U.S. Bureau of Justice.

Makes me feel a lot safer knowing they are mostly using guns instead of crashing thier cars head on into mine with all my kids with me…
John

 

[2shelbys]

siamesecat:

My opinion is that guns carried by civilians do more harm than good in the awful accidents that can occur with them.

Unfortunately your opinion is not based on facts. In the U.S. every year there are on average less than 200 gun accidents and more than 1.4 million crimes foiled by citizens with guns. The good outweighs the bad by so much it is not even worth discussing.

 

[2shelbys]

Nobody, especially a good Catholic, should ever ENJOY killing!!!

Thistle,
You obviously realize that your position is indefensible when you make an irrelevent comment like that. Who said anything about enjoying killing. Unless you consider shooting paper targets, bottles, or cans to be murder. Maybe you do.

 

[she_he]

You know something occured to me reading some of these posts

a few years ago some nutcase went berzerk in a new york subway
does anyone remember this? Some higher ranking police official made a statement on live TV that i caught ( i had the show on tape for some reason) that said Basically you know we really need to think our gun ownership and concealed weapons laws in this city,
Had there been one person on the subway that was legally carrying a firearm the nutcase ( he used another word) would not have been able to reload his weapon 5 times to keep shooting people…

How true that statement was

someone would have picked him off when he was reloading the first time…
John

 

[2shelbys]

she_he:

Makes me feel a lot safer knowing they are mostly using guns instead of crashing thier cars head on into mine with all my kids with me…

John

That actually happened to a good friend of mine’s cousin. Some teenage idiot that was upset about his girlfriend dumping him swerved over the double yellow directly at their car in hope of killing himself. He failed. But he did put a passenger in my friend’s cousin’s car in a wheelchair for life when he was only 19.

I guess we should have banned all motor vehicles. That would have saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

 

[2shelbys]

she_he:

You know something occured to me reading some of these posts

a few years ago some nutcase went berzerk in a new york subway
does anyone remember this? Some higher ranking police official made a statement on live TV that i caught ( i had the show on tape for some reason) that said Basically you know we really need to think our gun ownership and concealed weapons laws in this city,
Had there been one person on the subway that was legally carrying a firearm the nutcase ( he used another word) would not have been able to reload his weapon 5 times to keep shooting people…

How true that statement was

someone would have picked him off when he was reloading the first time…

John

Very true. And the wife of one the those killed used it as her motivation to run for office on a strict anti-gun platform and essentially try to ensure that such nutcases remain the only ones armed. Acting on emotion over logic is ALWAYS a bad thing.

 

[Mike_Dye]

thistle:

Why would anyone want to kill innocent animals?
Its barbaric!!

I know…it is far more ethical to hire a butcher to do your killing for you…that way your hands will always be nice and clean!

 

[she_he]

Mike Dye:

I know…it is far more ethical to hire a butcher to do your killing for you…that way your hands will always be nice and clean!

what hamburgers dont come from McDonalds? or steaks from ponderosa or the grocery store?

hmmmmmm what about the poor plants that get ripped out of the ground? oh a fruit you say? isnt that like a baby fruit tree?

your all killers,murders rofl

I am a hunter,fisherman, and vegetable eater so i guess i am a murderer as well…and lets not forget the poor organisms that live in our drinking water that we poison off with Chlorine. all those poor germs

sorry everything lives in this world by something elses death,
no matter how minute it is something has to die, an animal has no more rights than a carrot does, so you vegetarians are no more rightious than us meat eaters you still kill, the only difference is your deaf to thier screams…
John

 

[Mike_Dye]

thistle:

You shouldn’t mention the two wars. Yes Europe is grateful but if you had come sooner there would have been less dead. As it was in WWII the UK had to stand alone waiting for your help after Europe had been taken over by the nazis.

Then you go back nearly 300 years when you were our colony. What relevance has that to present day.

Nether of the above has anything to do with the topic which is about personal guns, and not guns carried by soldiers.
Yes its my personal view as I don’t know if there is an official Church teaching but do you honestly think the Catholic Church could be in favour of people other than police or military having guns.

Two points:

1. We were not the only ones to drag our feet in WWII. If your country and others had not buried their heads in the sand we wouldn’t have had to sacrifice so many of our guys in the first place!
   2)As for just the police and military being the only ones to have guns…guess what?..that was Hitlers idea way before your’s.
   I can not think
   of anything more scary than only the police and military having guns. Our founding Fathers had the foresite to make sure we would always be capable to insure our freedom! I know that will rub you wrong…Sorry!

 

[Mike_Dye]

Black Jaque:

I see that the USCCB and even my homestate’s Catholic lobby is anti-gun.

I’ve read through some of the material, and so far I can’t see them citing any particular teaching that this stems from. It appears that the Church is just approaching this as a matter of prudential judgement.

Is it OK to disagree?

I’m kind of annoyed that my tithe is going toward this type of lobbying.

Yes it is ok to disgree as long as it is not an offical Church teaching…It is pretty much a mute point anyway…Americans will never give up their guns regardless of who says what!!! You can take that to the bank and feel assured you will collect your intrest!

 

[Libero]

And this is the problem with your whole position. You dismiss completely valid, good reasons to own a gun for no other reason than the fact that they “do not appeal” to you personally. You also feel that no one should have the right to do something they enjoy just because you do not enjoy it. Don’t you realize how arrogant and tyrannical that is of you? Do you think that I should have the right to control what you do based on what I like to do? Stop thinking only about yourself.

Do pro-gun people not do exactly the same thing?

Completely ignoring statements about accidents because they are apparently “above accidents” due to some precautions they have taken.

I do not feel that no one should have the right to do something they enjoy. If you like target shooting, then I would simply want people to leave their guns at the shooting range.

I am not entirely sure that I am being arrogant and tyrannical, as I am not trying to impose my beliefs upon the entire world, but rather allow people to see why I as a single person do not support the use of guns by civillians.

Sorry if I have confused you.

 

[Libero]

Whoa,

Lets try not to bring the wars into it, the British people will just end up fighting with the American people over it, using little facts and statistics to try and support their view, when we already know, that no one can be the real “winner” in a history argument. (Unless one person is really really bad at history).

Also, lets try and keep all posts in good spirit, I can feel another argument coming.

If tensions keep on rising : “we shall not scape a brawl” (Shakespeare)

 

[Isidore_AK]

Libero:

Whoa,

Lets try not to bring the wars into it, the British people will just end up fighting with the American people over it, using little facts and statistics to try and support their view, when we already know, that no one can be the real “winner” in a history argument. (Unless one person is really really bad at history).

Also, lets try and keep all posts in good spirit, I can feel another argument coming.

If tensions keep on rising : “we shall not scape a brawl” (Shakespeare)

Can I ask you a question?

Is there any personal freedom, as a Brit, that you would fight, kill & die for? I’m not talking about another country invading, but a personal freedom? Would you fight for religious freedom? Free speech?

Many of us Americans feel that the only way for us to protect those freedoms is to make damn sure that anyone who tries to take them away pays a high price for them…

Do you understand where I’m coming from?

 

[Libero]

Can I ask you a question?

Is there any personal freedom, as a Brit, that you would fight, kill & die for? I’m not talking about another country invading, but a personal freedom? Would you fight for religious freedom? Free speech?

Many of us Americans feel that the only way for us to protect those freedoms is to make damn sure that anyone who tries to take them away pays a high price for them…

Do you understand where I’m coming from?

I get where you are coming from, something that I feel so strongly about, that should one try to take away from me, I would fight for it - even to the death.

Well, certainly nothing that could be replaced, as for rights, hmmm. I would get annoyed if religious freedom was taken away, but I do not feel that violence would acheive anything, I say this because of what I feel when I hear of those in Muslim countries who have killed innocent people and taken their lives all due to religion. (And sometimes other countries like NI and Ireland border).

I like freedom of speech, and I feel that I may make some effort if England found itself coming under the threat of a dictatorship.

But really I am not the fighting type, I hate death etc. If I did something, it more than likely would not involve me in combat, I am the type who in the army is a strategist or an office person, or a negociator etc.

You know my type, I am one of few at school who refuses to use violence, even if it is just “fun” or “messing around”. To me it isn’t about what I believe in, and what I would want to defend, because I do not believe in these conventional methods of defending your rights.

It is like comparing Martin Luther to Malcom X (I think?)

It is not that I do not feel strongly about matters, but rather that I would use different tactics and methods to try and mantain my rights or beliefs. Words are my weapons