Why is the Catholic Church Anti-gun?

[Libero]

You would rather have NO chance? Interesting

Do not overlook the power of other household objects, like a stool to the stomach, I would just run, and also raise some sort of alarm. In trying to confront someone more powerful than me, it is more than likely that I would fail.

 

[Libero]

An excellent example of your own statement would be to see a breakdown of how many of them had REAL guns. I can not tell you how many times I have heard stories on the news of kids being expelled for having toy guns in school. The school officials always cite that official “no tolerance” nonsense.

Good point, and replica guns have been a huge problem in England, youths take them out on the streets, SO19 subsequently arrive, then the children become petrified and the police are accused of behaving inapropriately. GMP are begin to crack down on replica guns near my town, they are always on the backs of market traders selling them, the government is pushing that all replica guns be in vivid colours so that people can establish the difference.

 

[Christus_Rex]

2shelbys:

You are correct to be flustered if you feel someone is belittling the courage displayed, and role played, by the British during the war but do not belittle the U.S. role by saying something like that either. Without Lend-Lease and American convoy protection of convoys made up mostly of American-built liberty ships (all of which was in violation of international law before December 1941), and without America’s vast industrial capacity and manpower Britain would never have survived.

I don’t mean you helped us in that sense - I mean that we were allies and neither ewas greater than the other. Ive been on here before and had posters make out that America won the war single-handedly - thats what I object to. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[proudnifi]

Libero:

It was a good deed, but a deed that could just have easily have been acheived without a gun, couldn’t your colleague just overpower the man?
.

Generally, one of the characteristics of a gun is that it is an equalizer.

One man might not be able to overpower another man just as easily without a gun as with a gun. Also, what if the attacker had a weapon? If one man had knife and the other a gun, the man with the gun probably has the advantage.

I am a woman and not big or athletic. If I were going to stop an attempted rape, I would be wanting a gun on my side.

 

[Libero]

I am a woman and not big or athletic. If I were going to stop an attempted rape, I would be wanting a gun on my side.

I am a small teen, and I am not that athletic, if I was being mugged, I would not want to pull out a knife, that more than likely would only lead to more trouble.

And then with guns there is the hesitation factor, if you hesitate for more than 5 seconds about taking an action that has a high posibility of killing them, destroying their life, that gun could be whipped right out of your hands - then, it is very likely that it could be used against you.

 

[proudnifi]

Libero:

I am a small teen, and I am not that athletic, if I was being mugged, I would not want to pull out a knife, that more than likely would only lead to more trouble.

Being mugged is a different situation. I am not suggesting that I would kill someone to save $5. Protecting people from murder and/or rape justifies the use of deadly force.

 

[2shelbys]

StinkyyyT:

Okay so there are pros and cons about guns. I’ve just had bad expiriences like my grandfather dying becasue he got shot too. Your entiltled to your opinon. I’ve only had bad expirences. And I dont think im mis-informed becasue i agree with you to a sense that they can help. Just in my case they never have.

-Katie

Thank you for clarifying your position. Your previous comments did not make that clear. You have had some horrible misfortune in your life and that does of course have an effect.

 

[Libero]

Being mugged is a different situation. I am not suggesting that I would kill someone to save $5. Protecting people from murder and/or rape justifies the use of deadly force.

Does it? We should not fear death.

In the UK it is becoming more and more common to be mugged, and then just be stabbed anyway, not very nice, I know, there was a story in the papers just today about a lawyer who was knived to death after giving everything he had to muggers.

 

[2shelbys]

Libero:

It was a good deed, but a deed that could just have easily have been acheived without a gun, couldn’t your colleague just overpower the man?

He was something like 6’ 3", 275 pounds and on drugs so no he could not have overpowered him. He probably would have gotten himself killed and then the rape would have continued and the woman would probably have been killed too.

Anything you say that starts with “what if” has no bearing on the facts of the situation and is therefore irrelevent but I will address them anyway:

Also, what if this attacker had some how gotten your colleagues gun, he would have been in a bit of a pickle then.

You do not point a gun at someone unless you are prepared to use it and using it prevents the attacker taking it from you.

And what if he actually killed the man,

He did.

he missed and shot the woman?

He knows how to use a gun, practices often, and did not miss. You do not fire if you do not have a clear shot.

We cannot contemplate the horrible effects of actually destroying life until we do it for ourselves. I remember an interview with an American soldier in Iraq who claimed that he hated the experience, and would never do it again his words were, “when you kill someone, you kill a peice of your own soul aswell - I never want to do this again” (I think, note may not be 100% accurate)

This is true. It had some effect on him but the overwhelming gratitude of the woman he saved, and the knowledge that this guy had many previous convictions for crimes of violence, and the knowledge the if he had not fired they both would probably have been killed kept it from bothering him too much.

 

[2shelbys]

Libero:

Do not overlook the power of other household objects, like a stool to the stomach, I would just run, and also raise some sort of alarm. In trying to confront someone more powerful than me, it is more than likely that I would fail.

You did not like your chances against this armed intruder when you had a gun but you like your chances with a stool?

 

[2shelbys]

Libero:

Good point, and replica guns have been a huge problem in England, youths take them out on the streets, SO19 subsequently arrive, then the children become petrified and the police are accused of behaving inapropriately. GMP are begin to crack down on replica guns near my town, they are always on the backs of market traders selling them, the government is pushing that all replica guns be in vivid colours so that people can establish the difference.

Here in the U.S. all toy and replica guns must have a flourescent orange plug at the end of the barrel. A good attempt to avoid accidents.

 

[2shelbys]

Christus Rex:

I don’t mean you helped us in that sense - I mean that we were allies and neither ewas greater than the other. Ive been on here before and had posters make out that America won the war single-handedly - thats what I object to. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem. I have seen that too. It was far from single-handed on anyone’s part.

 

[Libero]

You did not like your chances against this armed intruder when you had a gun but you like your chances with a stool?

I simply would not consider my chances high, and it is more than likely that I would not end up getting involved with someone who has violent fits and wishes to seek revenge.

 

[Libero]

Here in the U.S. all toy and replica guns must have a flourescent orange plug at the end of the barrel. A good attempt to avoid accidents.

Oh, what I am talking about is BB guns, they can still fire, but just wont hurt, they are wreaking havoc all over the country

 

[2shelbys]

Libero:

Does it? We should not fear death.

In the UK it is becoming more and more common to be mugged, and then just be stabbed anyway, not very nice, I know, there was a story in the papers just today about a lawyer who was knived to death after giving everything he had to muggers.

Too bad he was not able to shoot the criminals. His widow should file suit against every politician who voted for the gun ban that prevented her late husband from protecting himself. His blood is on their hands, and the hands of everyone else that supported the bans.

 

[2shelbys]

Libero:

Oh, what I am talking about is BB guns, they can still fire, but just wont hurt, they are wreaking havoc all over the country

That is interesting. I have not heard about that.

 

[she_he]

Christus Rex:

FOR GOD’S SAKE, WOULD YOU AMERICANS GET OFF YOUR PATHETIC HIGH HORSE OVER WWII? I’ve had this issue before with several posters before on here. Just because you helped, yes, HELPED us in World War II, doesn’t mean we have to agree with you all the time! What a pathetic attitude!
Who said NO? HUH?! BRITAIN. While the Nazis overan the entire continent we stood strong, a tiny little island the entire nation united against Nazism. HOW DARE ANYONE DISGRACE THE MEMORY OF THOSE BRITONS WHO FOUGHT IN WWII! America only really bothered to help when they were bombed themselves at Pearl Harbor.
I tell you, every last Briton would have died before Britain became Nazi. We would have carried on to the last man. We would have destroyed the Nazis and their ideologies by ourselves even if it ruined us.

rant over

1. I have no problem with your right to have a gun
2. I do think guns should be strictly regulated and ownly sold to poeple who pass strict checks
3. I support the right to hunt (IMO The ban on fox-hunting here was a way for the Labour townies to let the mostly Conservative countryside know whos in charge :tsktsk: )

Ok you Brits get off your high horse as well. you keep saying we as a cvountry were doing nothing to help you for some years yet
we were supplying you most of your naval ships, small arms,ammunitions, and other military items long before we were drug into that war,also as I remember Your Great stand using boats to escape to make a stand why did that happen? because noone had any guns to speak of,you had to “escape” to the island to find weapons,and to wait for more to come to you from the USA
and other countries that also were helping to supply you.
why did poland fall so fast,because they did not let the people obtain the weapons they had.
and also thier military was not ready because your GOVT said it would be antagonizing the Germans to do so.so dont play all high and mighty Europe wouldnt have fallen so fast if you guys would have shut your traps and other countries would have readied themselves sooner, we wont count the French as they are the French,thier military readiness is to march with thier hands and arms held high and empty…

My grandpa and 5 of his brothers were killed freeing the French
with the help of the UK and others…
why did we waste so many…
John

 

[mlchance]

thistle:

You shouldn’t mention the two wars. Yes Europe is grateful but if you had come sooner there would have been less dead. As it was in WWII the UK had to stand alone waiting for your help.

And if the various European nations hadn’t built the peace on a house of cards leading into WWI or if the British government hadn’t pursued a policy of appeasement prior to WWII…

But, to the point of the thread: No, one does not have to oppose private ownership of firearms to be a Catholic.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Isidore_AK]

Libero:

I am a small teen, and I am not that athletic, if I was being mugged, I would not want to pull out a knife, that more than likely would only lead to more trouble.

And then with guns there is the hesitation factor, if you hesitate for more than 5 seconds about taking an action that has a high posibility of killing them, destroying their life, that gun could be whipped right out of your hands - then, it is very likely that it could be used against you.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. Other than the occasional idiot who feels that just owning a gun makes them safer, those of us who carry weapons practice with them on a regular basis. Believe it or not, most of us practice much more often than the police or the military. We’ve gone throuigh classes on what to do & what not to do in a given situation. Its all part of getting your concealed carry permit in most states.

You draw a gun when there is a clear and present threat. Not before. You do not hesitate to shoot once you have identified the target & have a clear line of fire. If the threat is within a certain distance (usually 21ft), you fire if they rush you…not just once, but until the target stops advancing.

I don’t know who told you that your gun would be ‘whipped right out of your hands - then, it is very likely that it could be used against you’, but its the dummest advice I’ve ever heard. If you talk to personal defense instructors (martial arts & such) they will always tell you NOT to try to disarm someone with a gun unless you a) Want to get shot or b) Have no other choice. In practice, highly trained professionals only manage to disarm their attacker about 1/4 of the time, the rest of the time they get shot.

You say that you are a small person, & not athletic. Firearms are what you need to protect yourself against an attacker. If 2 or 3 larger men were intent on attacking you, a handgun (properly employed) could deal with the threat with minimal risk to you. They are the ‘great equalizer’ of mankind…

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/albums/arms/swordmaidentwo5009.sized.jpg

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

kool kid gun posters.

We run a jurnor hunting club here in Brighton, and not one of our kids has ever taken a weapon to school. I wonder how many of those kids who took weapons to school learned to hunt responsiblity? It turns our the two boys who did that school in CO never took a hunting class.

I agree we should teach our children to handle weapons responsiblity under adult supervision.

And, mothers if boyfreinds knew your daughter was a hunter, I bet she would get a lot more respect from the boys.