Why is the Catholic Church Anti-gun?

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Isidore_AK:
You draw a gun when there is a clear and present threat. Not before. You do not hesitate to shoot once you have identified the target & have a clear line of fire. If the threat is within a certain distance (usually 21ft), you fire if they rush you…not just once, but until the target stops advancing.

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Agreed. And, of course, the true intent is to stop the threat; that is, the preservation of one’s life.

The Catechism not only allows this (2263) but says “Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others.” (2265)
 
Hello:

Its occured to me that
  1. we are never going to agree about firearm ownership
  2. some people have a direct fear of guns and anyone owning them
    because of the death that comes from them.
On point 2 thats fine I dont agree with necessarily forcing someone to own a gun,Its a matter of freedom.

except when you consider in the case of war
Automobiles kill far more innocent lives than guns do
taking that into consideration drunk people kill far more innocent lives than guns do

Guns are far from the leading cause of death,but i never hear any squeeling about outlawing cars,or for that matter alcohol

to buy a gun in the USA you have to pass a criminal background check In my state you have to have a purchasing permit to buy any handgun.

to buy alcohol all you have to do is be of required age

are thier illegal guns out there committing crimes? YES
are thier illegal drinkers out there driving over and killing people? YES

but its a whole lot easier to get your hands on alcohol than it is a gun…

this is something everyone should be considering when they start talking about guns killing people
people kill people I have never seen a gun load itself aim at someone and shoot them.Its takes a human hand to cause a death from a gun.
Code:
to the non gun owners! you have the right to not own a firearm enjoy that right its been protected for you by legitimate gun owners for the last 230 years.
to the people whom enjoy being able to go to church on a saturday or sunday without persecution from the Govt, enjoy this right that also has been protected by us gun owners for the last 230 years many others do not enjoy this freedom.

I could go on and on but i think these 2 examples say enough.

one of the main reasons you havnt seen a big war in the USA is because of this gun ownership right we have,Not only would an enemy invading country have to worry about our military and police but also the worlds largest armed citizen militias its a no win battle. enjoy the fact we havnt had to endure what the european countries and many others have had to endure.

WE conquered the German aggression with help from many other nations that pooled together to repel them, But i do have to admit
the USA did not have to give up the civilian casualties that other nations had to…enjoy your rights.Not try to throw them away.
John
 
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she_he:
Hello:

Its occured to me that
  1. we are never going to agree about firearm ownership
  2. some people have a direct fear of guns and anyone owning them
    because of the death that comes from them.
On point 2 thats fine I dont agree with necessarily forcing someone to own a gun,Its a matter of freedom.

except when you consider in the case of war
Automobiles kill far more innocent lives than guns do
taking that into consideration drunk people kill far more innocent lives than guns do

Guns are far from the leading cause of death,but i never hear any squeeling about outlawing cars,or for that matter alcohol

to buy a gun in the USA you have to pass a criminal background check In my state you have to have a purchasing permit to buy any handgun.

to buy alcohol all you have to do is be of required age

are thier illegal guns out there committing crimes? YES
are thier illegal drinkers out there driving over and killing people? YES

but its a whole lot easier to get your hands on alcohol than it is a gun…

this is something everyone should be considering when they start talking about guns killing people
people kill people I have never seen a gun load itself aim at someone and shoot them.Its takes a human hand to cause a death from a gun.
Code:
to the non gun owners! you have the right to not own a firearm enjoy that right its been protected for you by legitimate gun owners for the last 230 years.
to the people whom enjoy being able to go to church on a saturday or sunday without persecution from the Govt, enjoy this right that also has been protected by us gun owners for the last 230 years many others do not enjoy this freedom.

I could go on and on but i think these 2 examples say enough.

one of the main reasons you havnt seen a big war in the USA is because of this gun ownership right we have,Not only would an enemy invading country have to worry about our military and police but also the worlds largest armed citizen militias its a no win battle. enjoy the fact we havnt had to endure what the european countries and many others have had to endure.

WE conquered the German aggression with help from many other nations that pooled together to repel them, But i do have to admit
the USA did not have to give up the civilian casualties that other nations had to…enjoy your rights.Not try to throw them away.
Code:
                  John
How arrogant!!!
The European countries together with the USA conquered Nazi agression.
 
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thistle:
How arrogant!!!
The European countries together with the USA conquered Nazi agression.
Actually, I’d say that the Russians were the ones who broke Germany’s back on the Eastern front… 😃
 
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Isidore_AK:
Actually, I’d say that the Russians were the ones who broke Germany’s back on the Eastern front… 😃
Some count Russia as Asia and some Europe and some a bit of both. My statement regarding Europe includes Russia. My mistake was forgetting the Commonwealth countries.
My point is that it was NOT AMERICA that conquered the nazis with help from other nations. It was the Allied forces from Europe (incl. Russia), the Commonwealth and America that together won the war. Some of your posters seem to imply that it was America that won the war and oh by the way maybe they had a little help from others. That is insulting to ALL the other countries involved.
 
Too bad he was not able to shoot the criminals. His widow should file suit against every politician who voted for the gun ban that prevented her late husband from protecting himself. His blood is on their hands, and the hands of everyone else that supported the bans.
That is such an American philosophy, there simply isn’t that suing frenzy over here. 😃
 
why did poland fall so fast,because they did not let the [people obtain the weapons they had.
It wasn’t quite that simple, the countires in the Triple Entente were severly crushed in WWII, do you really think they wanted war again? They would try every last thing to try and avoid it, including appeasement.
[/quote]
 
You draw a gun when there is a clear and present threat. Not before. You do not hesitate to shoot once you have identified the target & have a clear line of fire. If the threat is within a certain distance (usually 21ft), you fire if they rush you…not just once, but until the target stops advancing.
You say that you are a small person, & not athletic. Firearms are what you need to protect yourself against an attacker. If 2 or 3 larger men were intent on attacking you, a handgun (properly employed) could deal with the threat with minimal risk to you. They are the ‘great equalizer’ of mankind…
But you see, this simple method to follow seems brilliant to you, but to many it would not. I/ or maybe some women for that matter would not be that happy. I would be really nervous, I wouldn’t want to shoot anyway, incase I did kill someone, then my hand could be shaking, thus the gun is nit straight, then I would probably get a really bad shot, if I shot at all. This is the problem, to you, firing a gun would be fine, it wouldn’t bother you, but it would me, I would, really suck at it. :o
I don’t know who told you that your gun would be ‘whipped right out of your hands - then, it is very likely that it could be used against you’, but its the dummest advice I’ve ever heard. If you talk to personal defense instructors (martial arts & such) they will always tell you NOT to try to disarm someone with a gun unless you a) Want to get shot or b) Have no other choice. In practice, highly trained professionals only manage to disarm their attacker about 1/4 of the time, the rest of the time they get shot.
Yes, but drunken thugs who probably have never even attempted to contribute to society are not highly trained professionals 😃
 
to the people whom enjoy being able to go to church on a saturday or sunday without persecution from the Govt, enjoy this right that also has been protected by us gun owners for the last 230 years many others do not enjoy this freedom.
I go to church, so do my relatives in Ireland and Wales. I don’t think guns have that much to do with it, rather democracy.
one of the main reasons you havnt seen a big war in the USA is because of this gun ownership right we have,Not only would an enemy invading country have to worry about our military and police but also the worlds largest armed citizen militias its a no win battle. enjoy the fact we havnt had to endure what the european countries and many others have had to endure
Don’t underestimate what an attack from the sky could do, the armed people of America were not much use at Pearl Harbour.

Also, Ireland has never seen much war, no one attacks them, or holds a grudge (apart from England, but that is imperialistic monarchies for you). However their contribution in WWII and abit in WWI is not to be over looked. 😉 Why do you think they have won the Eurovision so many times?
 
There you go again, it was America with “help from Europe” who won the war! What a load of tosh!!!

*I *very much appreciate your help during the war, both before and after Pearl Harbor. I recognize that you helped us - but that you were no greater than us -and vice versa.

The main reason America didnt suffer civilian casualties was that you are actually on the *other side *of the Atlantic Ocean to us - a bit to far for the Luftwaffe to fly wouldn’t you say? You should enjoy that fact - *that’s *why you didn’t have to suffer the fate of European civilians.

You tell me I need to get off my high horse? I don’t think so - I’m not on one! I appreciate and I’m very grateful for your help during the war - its the Americans, not the Europeans, on CAF who believe that their country was better than us. I know that many Americans do not believe this, thank you to them.

It’s the blinded-by-patriotism American-supremacy attitude which has led to the attitude prevelant towards you in Europe today.

Also, there were many French and Polish men who came and fought in foreign contingents of the British army - so your pathetic slur about them is a degradation of their sacrifice.

I am SO grateful to your grandpa and his siblings for his sacrifice during the war - it was NOT a waste - and your not the only one who lost relatives in the Wars. FDo you appreciate my family’s sacrifice?
 
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Libero:
But you see, this simple method to follow seems brilliant to you, but to many it would not. I/ or maybe some women for that matter would not be that happy. I would be really nervous, I wouldn’t want to shoot anyway, incase I did kill someone, then my hand could be shaking, thus the gun is nit straight, then I would probably get a really bad shot, if I shot at all. This is the problem, to you, firing a gun would be fine, it wouldn’t bother you, but it would me, I would, really suck at it. :o
I assume most people faced with a self-defense situation would not be happy. But if it comes down to me or the attacker, I choose my life over his (or hers) and this is supported by the catechism. I expect I would have many unhappy thoughts about having killed someone, but it was ultimately the other person’s choice to create the situation.

I don’t have children yet, but I can’t imagine not doing anything and everything to protect them from an attacker. I strongly suspect I would not be nervous at all. You probably wouldn’t hesitate in that situation either.
 
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Libero:
That is such an American philosophy, there simply isn’t that suing frenzy over here. 😃
Oh so correct, and I am not a fan of it but if someone I loved was dead because the government took away our right of self-protection I would definitely try to make every one of them pay.
 
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Libero:
It wasn’t quite that simple, the countires in the Triple Entente were severly crushed in WWII, do you really think they wanted war again? They would try every last thing to try and avoid it, including appeasement.
The main reason that the early years of the war were such a rout for the Germans is that in terms of weapons and tactics/leadership they were decades ahead of the rest of the world.
 
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Libero:
I go to church, so do my relatives in Ireland and Wales. I don’t think guns have that much to do with it, rather democracy.

Don’t underestimate what an attack from the sky could do, the armed people of America were not much use at Pearl Harbour.

Also, Ireland has never seen much war, no one attacks them, or holds a grudge (apart from England, but that is imperialistic monarchies for you). However their contribution in WWII and abit in WWI is not to be over looked. 😉 Why do you think they have won the Eurovision so many times?
You mean the fact the German U-Boat fleet was able to refuel and take on supplies in Ireland?
 
Christus Rex:
The main reason America didnt suffer civilian casualties was that you are actually on the *other side *of the Atlantic Ocean to us - a bit to far for the Luftwaffe to fly wouldn’t you say? You should enjoy that fact - *that’s *why you didn’t have to suffer the fate of European civilians.
If the war had lasted only another 6 months we would not have been so lucky. That is how close the Germans were to developing 3 important things:

an atomic bomb

a jet powered flying wing bomber to carry it to the U.S.

an ICBM version of the V2 that could carry an atomic warhead to the U.S.

If the war had lasted only 6 months more Germany would almost definitely have won it.
 
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2shelbys:
If the war had lasted only 6 months more Germany would almost definitely have won it.
No, Germany wouldn’t have. The military losses suffered by Germany were too overwhelming. The German High Command was almost crippled by December 1944, and by March-April 1945, Adolph Hitler had lost whatever tenuous grasp on reality he may have ever had to begin with.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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thistle:
How arrogant!!!
The European countries together with the USA conquered Nazi agression.
the term WE was emphasized to show that it took all the nations.to conquer the German aggression, wasnt meant to mean anything else.

However if i had wanted it to mean what you are implying it would still be accurate as the USA and Canada had manufactured over 80% of all the weapons that all the countries used to repel germany,and by the last year of the war the USA and Canada were
Manufactureing over 98% so chew on that before you talk about arrogance,you could have had millions of people as the russians did
but without weapons or help from others that had them you would still be speaking German,

go have tea time
John
 
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Libero:
It wasn’t quite that simple, the countires in the Triple Entente were severly crushed in WWII, do you really think they wanted war again? They would try every last thing to try and avoid it, including appeasement.
Read your history the polish Military at that time was one of the most powerful in the world,
that is the reason why Germany moved so fast to conquer them when they learned they were not readying themselves

its also the reason there are so many "polish"jokes out there
the germans were antagonizing the polish with cardboard cutouts for many weeks, then one day they had actuall tanks which the poles still attacked with horse and sword,it was basically a massacre
but they still fought,.
now had thier people been armed it may have stopped the Germans before they could have gained so much ground and free weapons.noone will ever know for sure,but its a good guess things would have been different…
 
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Libero:
I go to church, so do my relatives in Ireland and Wales. I don’t think guns have that much to do with it, rather democracy.

Don’t underestimate what an attack from the sky could do, the armed people of America were not much use at Pearl Harbour.

Also, Ireland has never seen much war, no one attacks them, or holds a grudge (apart from England, but that is imperialistic monarchies for you). However their contribution in WWII and abit in WWI is not to be over looked. 😉 Why do you think they have won the Eurovision so many times?
The armed People of Hawaii which at that time was not even a state are credited with over 20 japanese planes shot down by “small arms fire” thats not bad considering the population of civilians in that era and place,
also something else to consider is this was not an occupying attack.
and yes I agree an air attack esspecially in todays days "small arms will have little effect, but let the paratroopers jump and we can knock off a bunch with our small arms fire,

small arms dont hold much against nuclear warheads either.
but them small arms are killing a lot of US soldiers in Iraq and its not military for the most part doing it its the armed citizens
John
 
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