Why is the Catholic Church Anti-gun?

[she_he]

Christus Rex:

There you go again, it was America with “help from Europe” who won the war! What a load of tosh!!!

*I *very much appreciate your help during the war, both before and after Pearl Harbor. I recognize that you helped us - but that you were no greater than us -and vice versa.

The main reason America didnt suffer civilian casualties was that you are actually on the *other side *of the Atlantic Ocean to us - a bit to far for the Luftwaffe to fly wouldn’t you say? You should enjoy that fact - *that’s *why you didn’t have to suffer the fate of European civilians.

You tell me I need to get off my high horse? I don’t think so - I’m not on one! I appreciate and I’m very grateful for your help during the war - its the Americans, not the Europeans, on CAF who believe that their country was better than us. I know that many Americans do not believe this, thank you to them.

It’s the blinded-by-patriotism American-supremacy attitude which has led to the attitude prevelant towards you in Europe today.

Also, there were many French and Polish men who came and fought in foreign contingents of the British army - so your pathetic slur about them is a degradation of their sacrifice.

I am SO grateful to your grandpa and his siblings for his sacrifice during the war - it was NOT a waste - and your not the only one who lost relatives in the Wars. FDo you appreciate my family’s sacrifice?

Absolutly i appreciate them.and for the record I had relatives in The UK fighting as well.

I also know for 1 that the USA could not have beaten Germany alone in WWII, Nor was that the intent of the text even though it may have appeared to you that way.

My slur to the French was because they were all set to fight till the Germans showed up in another area ( gee we had this magna line set up here and you cheated coming over there so we quit) so they just gave up.
then have the nerve to not release MY families remains because it could damage the soil to dig them back up. ( we finally after some years were able to get them back. To me that was a kick in our faces. they showed the attitude you can send your pathetic people to get blown apart and die for OUR country but they aint worth the dirt that is over them to send them back home.Now tell me you wouldnt throw a slur that way,

 

[she_he]

proudnifi:

I assume most people faced with a self-defense situation would not be happy. But if it comes down to me or the attacker, I choose my life over his (or hers) and this is supported by the catechism. I expect I would have many unhappy thoughts about having killed someone, but it was ultimately the other person’s choice to create the situation.

I don’t have children yet, but I can’t imagine not doing anything and everything to protect them from an attacker. I strongly suspect I would not be nervous at all. You probably wouldn’t hesitate in that situation either.

I am posting my comments on this post but also goes to the poster who talked about the Martial arts.

I have been a martial arts Instructor for a long time, I teach and promote self defense to people, police. prison guards etc.
I have had to use my Knowledge on more than one occasion.
I have had a knife put to me twice in my life and was terribly lucky to have disabled the aggressor both times without scratch.

as far as a gun goes I would Much rather face a gun at 6 feet or less than a knife,the gun is much easier to take away without injury,you only need to move the barrel a fraction of an inch for any projectile that may be fired to miss you, the knife can injure you from any angle of attack,the weapon is treated as an extension of the arm,with a knife its a very sharp extension where as the gun is not.

as for this poster being nervous if they were to use a gun then quite simply you should not use one,on that note everyone experiences the effects of adrenaline differently,even highly trained police officers miss thier targets at what is called extreme close range (6feet or less) that is human sized so unless you are ever put into that type of situation all the training in the world isnt perfect…

But familarity does help overcome Basic fear…
John

 

[Zerith]

she_he:

Absolutly i appreciate them.and for the record I had relatives in The UK fighting as well.

I also know for 1 that the USA could not have beaten Germany alone in WWII, Nor was that the intent of the text even though it may have appeared to you that way.

My slur to the French was because they were all set to fight till the Germans showed up in another area ( gee we had this magna line set up here and you cheated coming over there so we quit) so they just gave up.
then have the nerve to not release MY families remains because it could damage the soil to dig them back up. ( we finally after some years were able to get them back. To me that was a kick in our faces. they showed the attitude you can send your pathetic people to get blown apart and die for OUR country but they aint worth the dirt that is over them to send them back home.Now tell me you wouldnt throw a slur that way,

The Maginot Line was build on the French-German border, they sent a request to the Belgians to construct it through their territory, which was denied. This gave insufficient time to construct it along the, longer, French-Belgian border. When Germany declared war on Belgium, they went straight through to France. The French and Polish armies were the biggest in Europe on the Allied side, both were similar in size and power, both fell within a matter of weeks. In comparison to the German army, who used superior tactics - I.e. Blitzkrieg, the French and Polish, though the largest on the Allied side, were no match. The reason they surrendered, is because their army was broken. Not because they’re “Frenchy Surrender Monkies!1!” - They may have survived another few weeks, but the French President did not want to continue a futile war which would sacrifice many French army men and civilians.Your lack of knowledge in the area surrounding the French Surrender and Capitulation channelled through to an insult towards the French is just a massive offence to them, and to those who died for France, against the Nazi invaders, trying to justify a slur against them is just arrogant, especially if you don’t even know the name of their defensive line. What happened to your family was bad, but insulting an entire country, people and bending facts of history around to make your country seem better is not a good way to “Get back” at them.

Yes America and Canada produced many arms and ammunition - How and why? Britain was the only main industrialised country in the region of Europe left, and had the absolute **** being bombed out of it. Australia and New Zealand, while somewhat industrialised, did not have the capacity to produce them on the scale of Britain, USA or Canada.

Also, Ireland has never seen much war, no one attacks them, or holds a grudge (apart from England, but that is imperialistic monarchies for you). However their contribution in WWII and abit in WWI is not to be over looked. Why do you think they have won the Eurovision so many times?

The un-armed Irish police - An Garda Síochana, have been approached by Australians AND Americans for recruitment in their own police forces - Why? We’re able to deal with situations involving guns, WITHOUT having them on our side. This has become a recent thing.

Ah yes, the Eurovision, lol, unfortunately, we haven’t won it for a few years… We don’t really bear grudges against Britain - I’m very pro British, so are many others I know. Only avid GAA supporters, Sinn Féin voters, people who live in Gaelteacht regions, IRA supporters and the Irish in N.Ireland hate Britain (although, those who hate Britain could full well be all of the above) . And their close minded, I dislike people who think like that.

small arms dont hold much against nuclear warheads either.
but them small arms are killing a lot of US soldiers in Iraq and its not military for the most part doing it its the armed citizens

Tactics. Guerrilla warfare has advantages over conventional warfare - How do you know who’s an enemy, and who isn’t? Who’s concealing a gun, and who’s sincerely going about their daily business? Are the people seen on the streets normal citizens, or hiding their membership of a partisan orginisation?

[Post split due to 9072/5000 characters]

 

[Zerith]

[Continuation of above]

However if i had wanted it to mean what you are implying it would still be accurate as the USA and Canada had manufactured over 80% of all the weapons that all the countries used to repel germany,and by the last year of the war the USA and Canada were
Manufactureing over 98% so chew on that before you talk about arrogance,you could have had millions of people as the russians did
but without weapons or help from others that had them you would still be speaking German,

Seriously, this is just filled with arrogance:
“Chew on that before you talk on arrogance”?
“Still speaking German”? So he did before? And I dislike how people actually say this. For one, I do speak German, though not as a primary language. And in reference to the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe, they learned Russian as a second language, while keeping their own language.

And it would be more likely that we would be, in reference to your “phrase”, “Speaking Russian” (Even though, as I said, that would not be the case), why? As soon as they declared war on the USSR, they sealed their fate. They would lose to the Soviets. The question is, is would they have rolled over all of Europe? The Soviets had the most powerful army in the world by 1945, if it were not for the Atomic Bomb, I believe they would’ve flattened all of Europe.

You mean the fact the German U-Boat fleet was able to refuel and take on supplies in Ireland?

Comical. And where did you get this from?
When planes from Britain crashed in Ireland (If they did, which was rare), we sent them over the border. When Germans crashed, we locked them up. Both sides tried to tempt us, to no avail. Both sides threatened us, to no avail. The only time a German U-Boat had contact with Ireland was in WWI, when sending arms to the Irish partisans, which failed, as the men sent to retrieve the arms took a wrong turn and drove off a pier (Only in Ireland… But it was in complete darkness), the Aud was later captured, and scuttled.

You’re mixing Ireland up with Nationalist Spain, Axis sympathisers - We were Allied sympathisers. The Allies spied on the Spanish doing this, it was codenamed “Operation Goldeneye” (Which was where the name for the film came from, Ian Fleming was part of this operation). There was absolutely no record, or even suspician of Irish-German collaboration on the scale that you mentioned.

It wasn’t quite that simple, the countires in the Triple Entente were severly crushed in WWII, do you really think they wanted war again? They would try every last thing to try and avoid it, including appeasement.

Fascism (And the variant of Fascism, Nazism) were heralded as the “Enemies of Communism”, Communism was seen as the ultimate enemy, from the early 1900s, until the collapse. Fascism (And Nazism) were both completely anti Communist, and fought them. The Democracies had hoped the Fascist states would combat the Communists, so they gave into their demands, but as the years went on, they did realise that they could be a threat. And of course, later, war was declared. Though I wonder, what if they had let Poland fall, and gave Germany Luxembourg and the Alsasce-Lorraine provinces - Would they have fought the Soviets? In my opinion, that’s doubtfull, but who knows?

the germans were antagonizing the polish with cardboard cutouts for many weeks, then one day they had actuall tanks which the poles still attacked with horse and sword,it was basically a massacre

You do realise, the Poles did have their own armoured divisions, anti-tank weaponry, anti-tank artillary and cannons? While they may have engaged a German armoured division with cavalry, I doubt it would’ve been often. For one, the Germans, following the tactic of Blitzkrieg, would’ve bombed Poland first, went in with armour, then “mop up” with infantry which followed. So I’d say it would’ve been rare that that would’ve happened. (And Cavalry divisions did use rifles and had anti-tank weaponry/cannons/artillary)

No, Germany wouldn’t have. The military losses suffered by Germany were too overwhelming. The German High Command was almost crippled by December 1944, and by March-April 1945, Adolph Hitler had lost whatever tenuous grasp on reality he may have ever had to begin with.

They had very little production capability left. They may have discovered how to create an atomic bomb within six months, but to produce a nuclear war head, the rocket, assemble it, ship it over to Germany from Norway, build the strategic bomber, load it on… Their fuel levels were almost depleted. Their turbo-jet fighters were made of very weak alloys, and broke up easily.

Germany’s days were numbered, they couldn’t have lasted another month, let alone six.

 

[2shelbys]

mlchance:

No, Germany wouldn’t have. The military losses suffered by Germany were too overwhelming.

In stating “if the war had lasted 6 months more” means if the damage to Germany’s forces and industry had been less to a degree that would have allowed hostilities to continue.

The German High Command was almost crippled by December 1944, and by March-April 1945,

Not sure what you mean by this. Germany’s High Command was still intact at the end of hostilities.

Adolph Hitler had lost whatever tenuous grasp on reality he may have ever had to begin with.

This is true and had he turned over tactical command of the German forces to his generals (where it should have always been) that alone would have prolonged the war by months if not a year or more. The High Command would not have wasted tens of thousands of troops that could have defended Germany on the Ardennes offensive. They would also have directed more energy into the right weapons programs.

If Germany had achieved the ability to strike any of their enemies including the U.S. with atomic weapons they would almost definitely have won the war. It would have been a simple matter to wipe out all of the bases in England where our bombers were based. It would have also been easy to wipe out entire divisions in the field. Do you really think the populations of the U.S., England, and the other Allied nations would have tolerated staying in the war with entire cities being incinerated?

– Mark L. Chance

 

[she_he]

Zerith:

Tactics. Guerrilla warfare has advantages over conventional warfare - How do you know who’s an enemy, and who isn’t? Who’s concealing a gun, and who’s sincerely going about their daily business? Are the people seen on the streets normal citizens, or hiding their membership of a partisan orginisation?

exactly my point thank you of why to allow citizens to own firearms

 

[she_he]

[Continuation of above]

Seriously, this is just filled with arrogance:
“Chew on that before you talk on arrogance”?
“Still speaking German”? So he did before? And I dislike how people actually say this. For one, I do speak German, though not as a primary language. And in reference to the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe, they learned Russian as a second language, while keeping their own language.

And it would be more likely that we would be, in reference to your “phrase”, “Speaking Russian” (Even though, as I said, that would not be the case), why? As soon as they declared war on the USSR, they sealed their fate. They would lose to the Soviets. The question is, is would they have rolled over all of Europe? The Soviets had the most powerful army in the world by 1945, if it were not for the Atomic Bomb, I believe they would’ve flattened all of Europe.

Comical. And where did you get this from?
When planes from Britain crashed in Ireland (If they did, which was rare), we sent them over the border. When Germans crashed, we locked them up. Both sides tried to tempt us, to no avail. Both sides threatened us, to no avail. The only time a German U-Boat had contact with Ireland was in WWI, when sending arms to the Irish partisans, which failed, as the men sent to retrieve the arms took a wrong turn and drove off a pier (Only in Ireland… But it was in complete darkness), the Aud was later captured, and scuttled.

You’re mixing Ireland up with Nationalist Spain, Axis sympathisers - We were Allied sympathisers. The Allies spied on the Spanish doing this, it was codenamed “Operation Goldeneye” (Which was where the name for the film came from, Ian Fleming was part of this operation). There was absolutely no record, or even suspician of Irish-German collaboration on the scale that you mentioned.

Fascism (And the variant of Fascism, Nazism) were heralded as the “Enemies of Communism”, Communism was seen as the ultimate enemy, from the early 1900s, until the collapse. Fascism (And Nazism) were both completely anti Communist, and fought them. The Democracies had hoped the Fascist states would combat the Communists, so they gave into their demands, but as the years went on, they did realise that they could be a threat. And of course, later, war was declared. Though I wonder, what if they had let Poland fall, and gave Germany Luxembourg and the Alsasce-Lorraine provinces - Would they have fought the Soviets? In my opinion, that’s doubtfull, but who knows?

You do realise, the Poles did have their own armoured divisions, anti-tank weaponry, anti-tank artillary and cannons? While they may have engaged a German armoured division with cavalry, I doubt it would’ve been often. For one, the Germans, following the tactic of Blitzkrieg, would’ve bombed Poland first, went in with armour, then “mop up” with infantry which followed. So I’d say it would’ve been rare that that would’ve happened. (And Cavalry divisions did use rifles and had anti-tank weaponry/cannons/artillary)

They had very little production capability left. They may have discovered how to create an atomic bomb within six months, but to produce a nuclear war head, the rocket, assemble it, ship it over to Germany from Norway, build the strategic bomber, load it on… Their fuel levels were almost depleted. Their turbo-jet fighters were made of very weak alloys, and broke up easily.

Germany’s days were numbered, they couldn’t have lasted another month, let alone six.

Yes my spelling is terrible i admit that and 99% of my WWII reference material is on my computer 75 miles away from me as I use the love of my lifes computer.
and actually if anyone can claim victory over germany for WWII
I vote for the norweigians (SP) whom blew up the first heavy water plant days before Germany would have had “the” bomb
which we all know would have went across the channel wiping out half of THE ALLIED FORCES…

HOWS THAT?

How did i get the grunt of all those quotes anyways? rofl only my nick showed in that novel…

oh well when they get all my guns, I will be dead and so will many others getting them from me…NO EXCEPTIONS
whos first in line???

 

[Zerith]

she_he:

exactly my point thank you of why to allow citizens to own firearms

Short on time, so I’ll tackle this soleley.

Yes, what a great idea, so in the event of a VERY unlikely invasion of the United States of America, you can rally together to form terrorist organisations to repell your invaders? Ok, I won’t argue there, but the chances, and irony, of such an event happening are laughable.

If we allowed fire-arms in Ireland, I can only imagine the IRA having a field day - "Decomission? We have, these arms are for the individual protection of our… Political activists! Yea! "

Yes, go Norway, the country Britain invaded at the same time as the Germans, but had to retreat due to the rapid advance of Germany.

I’m surprised to see I actually left a lot out about the French Surrender and Capitulation, it all dates back to 1927, how weak they were, the power struggles, rivalry, confusion with Britain etc…

 

[Brendan]

Zerith:

If we allowed fire-arms in Ireland, I can only imagine the IRA having a field day - "Decomission? We have, these arms are for the individual protection of our… Political activists! Yea! "

Kind of interesting, a good portion of my Irish cousins have more guns than I do. They only thing they are lacking are the hand guns. They have rifles and shotguns galore though

Heck it was my grandmother who taugh my mother how to shoot

 

[Libero]

You mean the fact the German U-Boat fleet was able to refuel and take on supplies in Ireland?

No, I am referring to all of the Irish people who gave their life in WWII, all of my Irish grandad’s siblings were a contriubting member of WWII.

 

[Libero]

Read your history the polish Military at that time was one of the most powerful in the world,
that is the reason why Germany moved so fast to conquer them when they learned they were not readying themselves

Poland was not in the Tripple Entente though, nor was it given control over Germany after the sceond world war, or even present at the Potsdam Conference.

 

[Libero]

The un-armed Irish police - An Garda Síochana, have been approached by Australians AND Americans for recruitment in their own police forces - Why? We’re able to deal with situations involving guns, WITHOUT having them on our side. This has become a recent thing.

Ah yes, the Eurovision, lol, unfortunately, we haven’t won it for a few years… We don’t really bear grudges against Britain - I’m very pro British, so are many others I know. Only avid GAA supporters, Sinn Féin voters, people who live in Gaelteacht regions, IRA supporters and the Irish in N.Ireland hate Britain (although, those who hate Britain could full well be all of the above) . And their close minded, I dislike people who think like that.

I heard last time I was there, that the Irish garda were contemplating introudcing a gun unit, possibly due to the situation in Limerick - true?

And as for the Eurovision, well you must do better than we do, I still remember the rather embarresing nil points I got last time.

 

[Zerith]

Brendan:

Kind of interesting, a good portion of my Irish cousins have more guns than I do. They only thing they are lacking are the hand guns. They have rifles and shotguns galore though

Heck it was my grandmother who taugh my mother how to shoot

You may use a gun for hunting (Though I believe it’s only rifles, or there abouts), especially as a farmer, to ward off foxes etc…

And guess what, someone decided to use that for non-regulation purposes, killed a man, and ended up in jail - rightly so.

lol, Brendan, do your cousins have pro-Sinn Féin ideology? Tell them they were supposed to decomission! (Joking )

Libero: I believe 50,000 fought in WWII - I find it interesting that you’re grandfather’s siblings fought in WWII, you don’t come accross too many (Though I know someone who lost two uncles, and his grandfather fought in WWI) - And to be honest, saying we allowed Germans to refuel here is a slap in the face to us, we were pro-Allied, and the allogations which you have said are completely and utterly false, and it was a slap in the face of those who fought and died, not for their little neutral country, but for the greater good of this continent, this world.

Poland wasn’t in the Triple Entente - Mainly because it didn’t exist until after the Treaty of Versailles (1919). Though it did join with the Allies before WWII.

But in the quote you used; Germany invaded Poland not because they were not ready, it was because they wanted Lebensraum - But that was mainly in the Caucasus and Ukraine. But Germany wanted Polish territories, the old territories of Prussia - Upper Selesia, I believe, Danzig (Gdansk)… That area. Also, a route to the USSR. (They also gained the area surrounding the Lithuanian town of Memel, but the Soviets annexed that country, even though it was in the German sphere of influence)

Poland, again, didn’t exist at the time of the Potsdam Conference (And if they did, they wouldn’t have been one of the big three). The new borders of Poland were drawn at Potsdam (I.e. Eastern Poland to the USSR, and Eastern Germany (Upper & Lower Selesia to Poland - Everything East of the Oder river, I believe.)

 

[Zerith]

Libero:

I heard last time I was there, that the Irish garda were contemplating introudcing a gun unit, possibly due to the situation in Limerick - true?

And as for the Eurovision, well you must do better than we do, I still remember the rather embarresing nil points I got last time.

Oh, don’t worry, we got none last year…! :\

Hmm, I do know that they have a special unit already, to deal with situations which do require guns - which is rare, though I believe they wouldn’t use it frequently, like normal Gardaí in other regions, in Limerick. Maybe this force was what you were talking about, and was implimented since you’ve last been here? But Somehow I doubt it, I could research it though.

As far as I know, it’s not used too frequently - Maybe in raids of certain things (E.g. highly armed gangs - or something pretaining to the IRA, though with their “Decomissioning” (I don’t trust the IRA) I’d say the likelyhood of that happening is low.)

 

[Libero]

Hmm, I do know that they have a special unit already, to deal with situations which do require guns - which is rare, though I believe they wouldn’t use it frequently, like normal Gardaí in other regions, in Limerick. Maybe this force was what you were talking about, and was implimented since you’ve last been here? But Somehow I doubt it, I could research it though.

Oh it is probably just my grandad getting the wrong end of the stick, he lives in the most western part of Clare, not much action there.

 

[Isidore_AK]

she_he:

oh well when they get all my guns, I will be dead and so will many others getting them from me…NO EXCEPTIONS
whos first in line???

I’m with you on that one…

Whoever comes for my firearms will be engaged at range, and when they manage to overpower me (the only possible outcome), I will kill as many of their goons as I can before I go…

 

[Zerith]

Isidore_AK:

I’m with you on that one…

Whoever comes for my firearms will be engaged at range, and when they manage to overpower me (the only possible outcome), I will kill as many of their goons as I can before I go…

Ah, so much for “Self Defence” then.

I mean, if all they’re after is your guns, and not personal harm, or harm to loved ones, not there to steal your belongings… Just your weapon(s).

What if it’s a neighbourhood watch? Or the police?

 

[wabrams]

Zerith:

Ah, so much for “Self Defence” then.

I mean, if all they’re after is your guns, and not personal harm, or harm to loved ones, not there to steal your belongings… Just your weapon(s).

What if it’s a neighbourhood watch? Or the police?

Any government that comes to take someone’s legally owned firearms just for the heck of it or the “greater good” needs to be resisted. Once you disarm the population, there really isn’t anything else to stop the government from turning into a dictatorship.

 

[Zerith]

wabrams:

Any government that comes to take someone’s legally owned firearms just for the heck of it or the “greater good” needs to be resisted. Once you disarm the population, there really isn’t anything else to stop the government from turning into a dictatorship.

Yes there is. In Ireland it is against the constitution to ban democracy, you must hold a referendum to pass a law to change that. And to pass the law, you also need the go ahead from the President. Unless you stage a Coup D’etat - Which is unlikely, due to resistance from either: The IDF, or even the IRA (I.e. usually the army follows a right wing dictatorship, and therefore the left wing IRA would oppose, if the IRA take over, it’s the duty of the IDF to protect the people and the government).
It’s also against EU law to be anything other than a Democracy, either causing expulsion from the EU, or, seen as it’s an illegal coup, reprisal from the member states, to protect the legal government that was overthrown - And I don’t think America would support an illegal government, let’s just use the example I used above, in Ireland, now, would it?

Therefore, it’s next to impossible to:

1. Legally set up a dictatorship and;
2. Illegally set up a dictatorship.

What I can gather from your post would just be more along the lines of: “If the government does one thing, we’ll openly oppose them with force”. Which to be honest reminds me of the Unionists in N.Ireland during the early 1900s, which led to the creation of a terrorist organisation.

 

[Writer]

Isidore_AK:

By ‘Assault Rifle’ do you mean a rifle that fires an intermediate powered cartridge in a semi-automatic mode (a .223 or 7.62mm for example), that includes a pistol grip? This would include ALL civilian models of ‘Military’ rifles. Semi-auto only.

Or do you mean a rifle that is capable of firing ‘fully automatic’ or in ‘burst’ mode, which is classified by the BATF as a machine gun, and therefore illegal to own without the proper (and pain-in-the-butt to get) Federal permits? ie. Actual ‘Military’ arms.

I have found that most people don’t have a friggin clue what the term ‘Assault Rifle’ means. Did you know that most deer rifles are more powerful than the ‘Assault’ rifles?

The military chose a smaller round for their rifles because the soldier on the battlefield could carry more ammunition that way, as well as being cheaper. Part of military doctrine is to use weapons that wound, but don’t kill as easily as the older more powerful rifles of WWI & WWII so that the enemy will have to spend time & resources on their wounded. Military assault rifles are not more powerful than civilian rifles, they are usually much LESS powerful than civilian rifles. A good example of this is the military sniper rifles…many of them are adapted from civilian hunting weapons because the civilian weapons are more likely to kill in one shot, and are substantially more accurate.

Sorry this is a pet peeve of mine. People throw around terms like ‘Assault Weapons’ when they don’t even know the definition…the worst offenders are the news media & members of Congress.

Thanks for the observation, and I’ll be the first to admit you have a point. As I said, I used to be more familiar with the field of firearms than I am today. It was a passing observation of mine, but not terribly specific. I had the opportunity, for example, to fire what I think was an M-16 (non-automatic) some years back, and it just struck me…why does my relative need this gun? Self defense is one thing, but it seems that the line needs to be drawn somewhere…only I am not the guy to say where that line should be, since I am pretty rusty on my firearms now.