Why is the Church so rich?

[Verita]

Does God really care about these artifacts?

Yes! If you haven’t before, take a good look at the passages in the OT where God instructs the Israelites in the construction of the tabernacle and the temple of Solomon. God actually dictated that the richest materials be used. Gold altar, gold ark of the covenant, etc. And he dictated what the priests would wear. It wasn’t rags. The priests of the OT wore very ornate robes.

And if you think that this was only something God wanted then and now he’s changed his mind, remember that God is the same yesterday, today and forever!

I used to have a similar mindset when I was a protestant (as many protestants do) until one day attending Mass with my husband I looked around and realized that I was in the middle of the OT! It was like being inside the tabernacle, only now the Holy of Holies isn’t withheld from us.

 

[LilyM]

As far as I know the Vatican holds in her museums and galleries, objects of mans’ search for God. They are held in patrimony for all of civilization.
The Pope recieves no salary, gets no days off and is given a few white dresses and beanies.Occasionally one sees pictures of the inside of the “palace” and the walls are bare unless it is a room that visitors would come into.
The same way that the President could not sell the treasures of the Smithsonian , the Pope can’t sell the Vatican.
stjulie

Have to step in here to reiterate this point - the Vatican and the art that is contained within certainly is not the Pope’s individual property, nor even the Church’s - it’s part of the cultural heritage of Italy, and indeed the world. And most of the property of the Church in other countries is similarly part of the cultural heritage of those countries.

Things far less valuable and culturally significant have been put on the World Heritage List, for example. Not sure if the Vatican has been, but its contents are literally priceless and important for all mankind (you think only the Pope and the Church hierarchy, or only Catholics, come to visit, or get to see, the Sistine Chapel ceiling, for example? Or the artwork in St Peter’s?)

Same with most of the ‘Church’s’ treasures. They are donated by pious individuals or groups for the glory of God, in the spirit of the gifts of the Three Wise Men or the woman’s jar of ointment.

 

[Charybdis]

Good points made by all. This reminds me of something that actually happened in history. Being an ancient Egypt buff, I have always been awed by the pyramids.

When the Muslims took over Egypt, they ransacked the beautiful limestone casings on the Giza pyramids and used the white limestone to build their mosques, etc. leaving the remaining tattered hulks of what we now see as the pyramids (still awesome, but not hardly what they used to be). But just think of how they must have looked when they were in their prime shining in the sun with white brillance!!!

Because they took the valuable limestone, they left them a mere shadow of themselves.

Not exactly an accurate analogy, but if the church gave away all the rich trappings, then it would be just a bunch of tattered looking priests in some rundown shack in Rome, hardly much to instill the world of God here on earth and we know how us humans appreciate a good looking thing!!!

And private collectors will be charging admission to see these beautiful works of art…

not only that, but who decides who gets the money? Where does it go? how much? Can you imagine how the Church would be run through with that decision-making process???

No thanks!

 

[Randy_Carson]

Ok…I’m not trying to say anything offensive about the church.

But that still doesn’t explain why they don’t give up all their posessions. They could teach without schools. Jesus didn’t have schools and He did a lot of teaching. They could all be like wandering monks.

They could all be wandering monks, I suppose, but then where would they keep all their secret files?

Seriously, the Church needs buildings in which to conduct its meetings and to run its day to day affairs. Protestants also have large churches (the National Cathedral (Episcopal) in Washington, DC is the sixth or seventh largest Church in the world) and Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral in CA is nothing to sneeze at, either. Jews have large synagogues while Muslims have many ornate Holy Places.

The Catholic Church maintains its buildings in the same way that the US Government maintains national parks, monuments, and historic buildings. Should the government sell all of its land and property to pay off the national debt? Or is there some advantage in maintaining these treasures so that everyone can enjoy them? Similarly, the Church holds its property, art, libraries and archives as treasures open to all.

Sadly, there is little cash flow generated from these things relative to the cost of upkeep, so the Vatican routinely needs to request additional money just to break-even on an annual basis. This annual collection is called “Peter’s Pence.”

 

[BrooklynBoy200]

Ok i understand now. Thankyou all for the replies

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes, but what about the fancy hat and robes?

Jesus, our King, is seated upon a royal throne in heaven.

The finery of his courtiers reflects his glory.

It does not detract or subtract from it.

 

[Jim_Baur]

No answer, sorry!

 

[LSK]

You are right - just as all of us could live more closely to the manner in which Jesus wishes us to live so could those who serve Him in the form of membership of a religious movement also live more closely to the example of Jesus.

Now, let’s be really logical. Today, the Catholic Church is everywhere in the world. It is not confined to a small part of the Middle East, or even the area once referred to as the Roman Empire. It is EVERYWHERE.
What is the hallmark of the Catholic Church? That we are One, Holy and Apostolic. In other words the teachings are the SAME, the Catechism is the SAME.
Thus, the logistics of management precludes that our leaders live in caves somewhere.

 

[alexaustralia]

Just for reference in case any one wants to know my parish priest gets AU$10K or approx US$8K a year…the Church aint that wealthy and neither are the clergy.

 

[Riley259]

Yes, but what about the fancy hat and robes?

All the robes and vestments have symbolic meaning. The Pope has virtually no possessions for himself. It would be impractical to sell priceless riches that are on display to lift up the members of the Church and the world and for the glory of God. The Church doesn’t own them per se.

 

[Riley259]

Yes, but what about the fancy hat and robes?

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

Obviously you have never been to Rome nor seen the Vatican. It is not fancy by any means and by our (US) standards, not elegant. The papal apartment has been redone before Pope Benedict took it as his residence. The cost of maintaing the Vatican is huge. People from all over the world come to visit. The Catholic Church, as I have heard, gives more to charity than any other institution on earth. The cost of paying priests, bishops, etc is considerable, much less taking care of the elderly clergy in retirement. The Church owns a lot of property that consists of churchs, schools, etc,. Parish’s depends on not only its members, but the diocese to pay the bills. In comparison to some much smaller denominations, the Catholic Church is anything but wealthy. Ask your parish to see it’s annual budget. Go to your Diocese to see thier budget, you will have your eyes opened.

God bless,

Mom of 5

Actually Rome is very extravagant.

Ive seen the Apostolic Palace and Castel Gandolfo (sp)

Its very beautiful and exquisite.

But truth be told…I dont care.

If I had my way Id build an even bigger castle for my Pope.

Remember the story of the woman who wasted oil on the feet of Christ.

 

[Resurrexit]

Actually Rome is very extravagant.

Ive seen the Apostolic Palace and Castel Gandolfo (sp)

Its very beautiful and exquisite.

But truth be told…I dont care.

If I had my way Id build an even bigger castle for my Pope.

Remember the story of the woman who wasted oil on the feet of Christ.

 

[Resurrexit]

If I had my way Id build an even bigger castle for my Pope.

Remember the story of the woman who wasted oil on the feet of Christ.

lol

And don’t forget the Papal tiara!

 

[Missa_Solemnis]

lol

And don’t forget the Papal tiara!

Definitely…bring on the gemstones.

 

[Mom_of_5]

Actually Rome is very extravagant.

Ive seen the Apostolic Palace and Castel Gandolfo (sp)

Its very beautiful and exquisite.

But truth be told…I dont care.

If I had my way Id build an even bigger castle for my Pope.

Remember the story of the woman who wasted oil on the feet of Christ.

I do not mean that Rome and Vatican City are not wonderful, they are unbelievable in their elegance, but not dripping with “Gold” as the OP seems to think. The richness is a great deal different that of Vegas. The Vatican and everything in it is priceless not only because of its age but artistic beauty and a special feeling of holiness and awe. I have seen pictures of the inside of the papal apartment before the remodel. Not a fabulous residence one might expect to house the head of our church on earth. If I could, I would spend several years visiting Rome to drink in the history and the holiness one can only find in the city that houses our Holy Father.

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

 

[VociMike]

Why does the Pope live in such a huge beautiful place? Why don’t all the priests, bishops, deacons, laymen, the Pope, etc., all give away all their posessions and live in like a cave somewhere? Jesus didn’t have a huge palace, and he told that rich guy to give up all his possessions.

You claim the Church is rich. How rich is the Church?

Most of her wealth is in art and architecture.

Who should she give her churches to? What would they turn them into? Mosques, museums and community centers? And where would people worship then?

Who should she give her art to? Would it be in better hands if it went to a thousand private collectors and could never be seen by the public?

 

[Ignatius]

Why does the Pope live in such a huge beautiful place? Why don’t all the priests, bishops, deacons, laymen, the Pope, etc., all give away all their posessions and live in like a cave somewhere? Jesus didn’t have a huge palace, and he told that rich guy to give up all his possessions.

Just so i’m not misunderstood, i am not trying to say anything against the Church, i’m just asking.

You are operating under a misaprehension. The Church is very poor compared to most evangelical Protestant churches. Many years the Church actually runs in the negative.

 

[TobyLue]

BB2m,
I wont try to pick on you or sound antagonistic in any way, but why pick on only the Catholic Church? Look at the Mormon temple and the huge organ they have. Why dont you ask of them to sell that temple and the big organ and settle for an accordion instead and give the $$ to the poor? Look at the televangelists who are making millinons. Look at that dude that has the glass cathedral that cost millions. Why dont you ask them to sell those? Look at that preacher who draws thousands to the Astrodome. Why doesnt he just meet at the parking lot? I have seen this question asked many times regarding the Catholic Church but not a mention of the other extremely wealthy protestant Churches. How about Canterbury Cathedral? What about the priceless icons in the Orthodox Churches? How about those preachers that drive Lexus’, Cadillacs? Why dont people tell them that they should sell those fancy houses and cars and instead go live in caves, walk around in ragged clothes and make their own shoes out of used tires etc? Why? Why?
This reminds me of a movie long time ago starring Anthony Quinn. I dont remember the movie that well, but he was playing the part of a pope who in order to solve the worlds poverty decided to sell everything just as you are suggesting. According to what I remember, the whole world liked the example and it was the beginning of world peace. Quite fictional if do say so myself.

 

[Zooey]

Can the Friendly Neighborhood Methodist take a shot at answering this question?
Thank you; here goes: It’s paid for.
Every so often, someone asks me, a single lady with a cat, why I “need” a 4 bedroom house. The answer is: It’s paid for. It’s the old family homestead, long ago paid for by those who went before me. I’m not rich–I live on social security–and this place is paid for. Just taxes & utilities to pay. Works out great…

I think of the Vatican like this. Nobody in Rome, or around the world, has to meet a mortgage payment, or cough up a rent check every month.
I’m sure, knowing what I do of thriftiness in those of Middle European lineage, that Pope Benedict doesn’t insist on keeping every single room in the whole of Vatican City at 70 dgrees Fahrenheit, 365 days a year. That saves on fuel…

It was very interesting to hear that most of the pope’s vestments are gifts. I wonder, don’t popes also use things that have been used by previous popes? I bet they do…
So, here he is, in a home that is paid for, it doubles as his office, he wears clothes people gave him, & clothes that were passed down to him.
Sounds pretty sensible to me…I mean, they aren’t giving that cave away, & the “simple clothing” would have to be paid for, too…Even Goodwill & Sally Ann charge something for their merchnadise.
So, I kinda think that going on as usual & using what is all ready provided makes a lot of good sense.
What do you think???