Why is the Eastern Orthodox Church false?

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Correction: the title is probably derived from Tertullian. Orthodoxinfo quotes Tertullian here but interjects that the Vicar of Christ is the Holy Spirit,even though Tertullian is clearly talking about Peter.
Correction: Tertullian is not referring to St Peter here. :rolleyes:

ps–Why is it that so many Catholics refer to St Peter as “Peter”? It seems very protestant to me.
 
[Mickey]
Correction: Tertullian is not referring to St Peter here. :rolleyes:
You’re right. I missed the reference to the Holy Spirit in that passage. Oh well,I guess that means Ephrem is our oldest source for the title Vicar of Christ.
ps–Why is it that so many Catholics refer to St Peter as “Peter”? It seems very protestant to me.
We always know that he is a saint,just like we always know Jesus is the Christ.
 
You’re right. I missed the reference to the Holy Spirit in that passage. Oh well,I guess that means Ephrem is our oldest source for the title Vicar of Christ.
And again…I assure you he was not saying that the bishop of Rome is “The Vicar of Christ”. 😉
We always know that he is a saint,just like we always know Jesus is the Christ.
St Peter is venerated as a saint and should be referred to as such out of respect. Just as our Lord and Savior should always be referred to as “Jesus Christ”. 🙂
 
That’s alright. The Eastern clergy (the ones who had the orthodox faith) treated the bishop of Rome like he was the Vicar of Christ,whether or not they called him that. They did call him the “Head” and the “Rock” and the “successor to Peter” and “Peter”. Vicar means deputy or agent. That is what a bishop is – a or deputy or agent of Christ. All bishops may be regarded as vicars of Christ. The Pope is a bishop,but he has the unique office of shepherding the whole Church.
God bless the Holy Father!
 
credo.stormloader.com/Ecumenic/assyrians.htm
< In the afore-mentioned Letter to his people, Bishop Mar Bawai Soho, the present Assyrian Bishop of San Jose, California, has expressed his determination to do what he can to further the union of Christian Churches, noting that the “sacred objective of the unity of Christ’s Church must however be developed from an ecclesiological mentality not political, but from an apostolic way of thinking, not secular.” He went on to note the genuine tradition of his ancient Eastern Church concerning the Petrine Primacy in the Church:

“The Church of the East attributes a prominent role to Saint Peter and a significant place for the Church of Rome in her liturgical, canonical and Patristic thoughts. There are more than 50 liturgical, canonical and Patristic citations that explicitly express such a conviction. The question before us therefore is, why there must be a primacy attributed to Saint Peter in the Church? If there is no primacy in the Universal Church, we shall not be able to legitimize a primacy of all the patriarchs in the other apostolic churches. If the patriarchs of the apostolic churches have legitimate authority over their own respective bishops, it is so because there is a principle of primacy in the Universal Church. If the principle of primacy is valid for a local Church (for example, the Assyrian Church of the East), it is so because it is already valid for the Universal Church. If there is no Peter for the Universal Church, there could not be Peter for the local Church. If all the apostles are equal in authority by virtue of the gift of the Spirit, and if the bishops are the successors of the Apostles, based on what, then, can one of these bishops (i.e., [our own] Catholicos-Patriarchs) have authority over the other bishops?

The Church of the East possesses a theological, liturgical and canonical tradition in which she clearly values the primacy of Peter among the rest of the Apostles and their churches and the relationship Peter has with his successors in the Church of Rome. The official organ of our Church of the East, Mar Abdisho of Soba, the last theologian in our Church before its fall [he is referring to the 14th century canonist who was the last prominent theologian before the Mongol invasion], based himself on such an understanding when he collected his famous Nomocanon in which he clearly states the following: “To the great Rome [authority] was given because the two pillars are laid in the grave there, Peter, I say, the head of the Apostles, and Paul, the teacher of the nations. [Rome] is the first see and the head of the patriarchs” (Memra; Risha 1). Futhermore, Abdisho asserts “…And as the patriarch has authority to do all he wishes in a fitting manner in such things as are beneath his authority, so the patriarch of Rome has authority over all patriarchs, like the blessed Peter over all the community, for he who is in Rome also keeps the office of Peter in all the Church. He who transgresses against these things the ecumenical synod places under anathema” (Memra 9; Risha 8). I would like to ask here the following: who among us would dare to think that he or she is more learned than Abdisho of Soba, or that they are more sincere to the Church of our forefathers than Mar Abdisho himself?” >
 
They did call him the “Head” and the “Rock” and the “successor to Peter”
They treated him like the Orthodox bishop of the capital city of Christianity. They did not see him as supreme pontiff and they did not see him as infallible. 👍
 
anthony #678:
They did call him the “Head” and the “Rock” and the “successor to Peter”
If this is a standard for someone to be a vicar of Christ, then, tell your Pope to make room for others, since The Orthodox Fathers said the same words to others…>>> Chrysostom, for instance, calls Ignatius of Antioch a “successor of Peter, on whom, after Peter, the government of the church devolved”.

Another place says still more distinctly: “Since I have named Peter, I am reminded of another Peter [Flavian, bishop of Antioch], our common father and teacher, who has inherited as well the virtues as the chair of Peter. Yea, for this is the privilege of this city of ours [Antioch], to have first (ἐν ἀρχῇ) had the coryphaeus of the apostles for its teacher. For it was proper that the city, where the Christian name originated, should receive the first of the apostles for its pastor.
 
If this is a standard for someone to be a vicar of Christ, then, tell your Pope to make room for others, since The Orthodox Fathers said the same words to others…>>> Chrysostom, for instance, calls Ignatius of Antioch a “successor of Peter, on whom, after Peter, the government of the church devolved”.

Another place says still more distinctly: “Since I have named Peter, I am reminded of another Peter [Flavian, bishop of Antioch], our common father and teacher, who has inherited as well the virtues as the chair of Peter. Yea, for this is the privilege of this city of ours [Antioch], to have first (ἐν ἀρχῇ) had the coryphaeus of the apostles for its teacher. For it was proper that the city, where the Christian name originated, should receive the first of the apostles for its pastor.
Don’t pretend we only recognize one sucessor of Peter in terms of sees. Yet one is higher in responsibility and honor than the others.
 
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gofer:
Don’t pretend we only recognize one sucessor of Peter in terms of sees. Yet one is higher in responsibility and honor than the others.
I did not pretend, I only responded to the text of your fellow RCs my freind, But if you agree that the successors of Saint Peter are all the Bishops who confesses and teach the truth that it was handed down to us as it was from the beginning, and that he is not the ONLY successor of Saint Peter, then there is no diffrences to argue about.
And as far for the bishop of Rome that he came first in honor, then I say there is nothing wrong with this statement either, since he was so, and the Fathers of the Church rightly gave him this, since he was worthy of it.

And as for the word “responsibility”, I even agree with it as long as it is not interpreted and stretched to where it become Supreme pontiff of the whole Church of God, jurisdiction over all the other Sees, Infallability and THEE “VICOR OF CHRIST” (DOGMATICLY).
 
Tomster,

Nonetheless, it was a later addition to the Nicene Creed, it does not necessarily mean that the RCC is wrong, so I will give you that.

VociMike,

I am sorry, this is just not true.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? (Galatians 2:14)

It is clear that Peter was not just “behaving” wrongly, but that he was “forcing” gentiles to follow Jewish customs, which is not in line with the truth of the gospel.

But this is your perspective, the EO would say that while there are regional differences, the Church itself is united in doctrine, faith, and liturgy. Just as the Protestants claim unity in the truth of God’s Word, despite denominational differences. But unity is valueless if it is not qualified by the truth, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses have unity as well.
Hello, I have posted this before, so I am repeating myself. I think the disagreement between Peter and Paul was over , for one thing, Jewish teachings about what was kosher and what was not. ie. no pork and other gentile foods. Also, I believe Peter had a vision, or dream in which angels appeared holding a cloth on which these unclean foods were placed. Peter then heard the voice of our Lord stating they should not be held unclean in the Christian faith. Again, Paul is known as the Apostle of the Gentiles. He was trying to lead the converted Jews toward a more universal understanding of Christ’s laws.
 
Re: Galatians. Peter was intimidated by James’ people. Nowhere is it said that he actively forced Gentiles. Most likely the Gentiles were intimidated by his example in turn - in both cases passive. We’ve pondered this for 2000 years. Don’t think you know better. Peter was not Paul’s “foe”, it was James and his “Pharisiac” followers.
 
Wow! According to newadvent, vicar means “instead of”.

Instead of Christ!!! Oh my! :eek:
Is that suprising? Doesn’t your priest have the authority to baptize and celebrate the Eucharist and absolve sins in the stead of Christ? Didn’t Christ establish the priesthood in his stead?
 
They treated him like the Orthodox bishop of the capital city of Christianity.
They did not see him as supreme pontiff and they did not see him as infallible. 👍
The Eastern clergy knew the pope always had to have the orthodox faith,because the pope was the successor to Peter the Rock and had Peter’s universal ministry,and because Christ promised Peter that the gates of hell would never prevail against the Church. They did see the pope as supreme pontiff and as infallible,that is,as permanently having the orthodox faith. Do you want to see the evidence again?
 
Is that suprising? Doesn’t your priest have the authority to baptize and celebrate the Eucharist and absolve sins in the stead of Christ? Didn’t Christ establish the priesthood in his stead?
Christ is with us unto the end of time. The priest/bishop does not replace Him.
 
Re: Galatians. [snip]. Nowhere is it said that he actively forced Gentiles. Most likely the Gentiles were intimidated by his example in turn - in both cases passive. We’ve pondered this for 2000 years. Don’t think you know better. Peter was not Paul’s “foe”,
True.

Augustine and Jerome had an interesting discussion on Gal 2. re: Paul rebuking Peter. Scroll down and start with Ch 3 v 9 .

newadvent.org/fathers/1102075.htm
 
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