Why is the Father called Jesus' God?

[jochoa]

No problem!

I would define a manifestation as something that makes a thing manifest, or visible. So, when a person does something charitable for another person, then that is a manifestation of God’s love (or, as it were, God is made manifest in the way we love one another). However, when you perform a charitable act, it’s not like God is literally present there (in any way that He wasn’t already).

It’s my understanding that the B’ahai consider a number of prophets the manifestations of God; they don’t think that these prophets are actually God, but are like mirrors, through which one is able to see God reflected.

On the other hand, incarnation means a “being made flesh”: Jesus is the Incarnation of the Logos, the 2nd person of God. In other words, it’s not as if the 2nd person of God was reflected in Jesus, it’s literally that Jesus (in a way unlike anything we’ve ever experienced before or after!) was made a physical being – both fully man and fully God.

Now, don’t get me wrong – when Jesus came to live among us, God was made manifest to us. However, since ‘manifestation’ can mean something less literal than ‘incarnation’, and I know you’re very precise in the way that you want to use words, I don’t want there to be any mistake: Jesus is the literal incarnation of the Logos, and not only a manifestation of God!

Thank you very much for sharing your understandings! I gained greater knowledge from your words. I especially liked, “and not only a manifestation of God!”

However, this does bring us back to the original concept:
If Jesus is Fully God (not just a subset of God) and the Fullness of God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then doesn’t this mean Jesus IS the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (modalism), as well as 3 distinct and co-existing persons? We just need to find the perspectives which validate both.

 

[Gorgias]

this does bring us back to the original concept:
If Jesus is Fully God (not just a subset of God) and the Fullness of God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then doesn’t this mean Jesus IS the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

It would only mean this if the Father was not the fullness of God and the Son was not the fullness of God and the Spirit was not the fullness of God. In other words, when one says “Jesus is fully divine”, it does not imply some sort of deficiency in any of the persons of God, with respect to their nature. To say “Jesus is fully divine” doesn’t touch upon the nature of divinity of the persons of the Trinity; rather, it addresses the mystery of how Jesus, a human person, might be considered to be divine.

But, to be fair, you’ve pointed out a weakness of my statement: rather than say “Jesus is fully human and fully God”, I should have written, “Jesus is fully human and fully divine”. Thanks for pointing that out!

Perhaps that mis-statement is the reason that my reply appeared to flirt with modalism, which wasn’t at all my intent!

 

[jochoa]

It would only mean this if the Father was not the fullness of God and the Son was not the fullness of God and the Spirit was not the fullness of God. In other words, when one says “Jesus is fully divine”, it does not imply some sort of deficiency in any of the persons of God, with respect to their nature. To say “Jesus is fully divine” doesn’t touch upon the nature of divinity of the persons of the Trinity; rather, it addresses the mystery of how Jesus, a human person, might be considered to be divine.

But, to be fair, you’ve pointed out a weakness of my statement: rather than say “Jesus is fully human and fully God”, I should have written, “Jesus is fully human and fully divine”. Thanks for pointing that out!

Perhaps that mis-statement is the reason that my reply appeared to flirt with modalism, which wasn’t at all my intent!

Great points, my friend! I would like to follow up with two more questions and one point of consideration. Please consider the following:

1. From your understanding, what is the difference/distinction between Jesus is the Lord, the Lord is our God, Jesus is True God, Jesus is fully divine, Jesus is the Logos and the Logos was God, in comparison to Jesus is God, Jesus is fully God?
2. Is there anyway to solve the mystery of how Jesus, a human person, might be considered to be divine, so that we, as human persons, might be considered to be divine?

I think the following texts demonstrate that each person of the Holy Trinity, must by some means be all three persons of the Holy Trinity. Please consider the following:
“The Poem of the Man-God,” the Gospel as revealed to Maria Valtorta
Pope Pius XII said, “Publish this work as it is…who reads it will understand”

1. Introduction - 16th August 1944
   -“The Most Holy Trinity descended with Its perfections, inhabited with Its Three Persons, enclosed Its infinity in a small space.”
   -“The Father, being once again the Creator of the creature,…”
   -“God, to reveal Himself to men in the new and complete form,…,did not select for His throne a star in the sky,…He wanted a spotless womb.”

Thank you very much for the enlightening discussion!

 

[Justicekraite]

‘‘John 3: 6 ‘‘A person is physically born of his parents but in spirit he is born from the spiri(holy spirit) ,Jesus was born to father through the grace of holy spirit and not from a women ,John 1:1-3 , and as st.paul said , he was the first ‘‘born’’ son to god , All the other things in the world is created by the father ‘’ through him, by him and for him’’ (Jesus).Jesus called the father god because he is the creator, the producer ,the manufacturer ,the GOD of all things. He is the one who is running this world, producing the ‘‘harvest’’ and reaping the ‘‘harvest’’ .When apostles asked jesus about the time ,he just said the father himself knows, no angel, not even his son knows about it. God is omnipotent but he keeps love first, he abides his omnipotent power and ‘‘serves’’ the humanity instead of being ‘‘served’’ .’‘I cam into this world to serve and not to be served’’ .Jesus called him GOD because his love is immaculate, he is too lovely. Anyone in god’s place would love to be ‘‘served’’ but he ‘‘serves’’ ,he gave all of us free will, satan’s will was to rebel against him,atheists wills are to deny his existance and our will is to have faith in him. Being omnipotent ,omniscience , he created even the evil ones who would rebel against him because he doesn’t support ‘‘abortions’’ ,if he can create good people and take praise ,he can also create evil people and take some insults to be an example for those whom he chose and loved even before the world was made. Only a GOD can do that, that’s why Jesus called him ‘‘GOD’’

 

[R_C]

Why does the Bible say the Father is the God of Jesus if Jesus and the Father are co-equal members of the Trinity?

This is not just something written on the Bible: it is something that Jesus Himself said.

go to my brethren, and say to them:
I ascend to my Father and to your Father,
to my God and your God.