Why is the Mass so Short

[boatbearer]

OK.

Have you thought about converting to a religion that you like?

What in your thought process made you reach the erroneous conclusion that I don’t love the Catholic Christian faith?

 

[boatbearer]

A friend of mine who had been Catholic theorized that many people were taking a kind of “magical” attitude to the Eucharist. He felt this accounted, for example, for so many people leaving church as soon as they had received, or why in many places only one stanza of each hymn is sung, or why there seems to proportionally be more bad homilies - as long as the Eucharist is there the rest is seen by some to be superfluous.

I doubt this is the only issue at play, but I think it might be part of it.

At my church the main service on Sunday is an hour and a half. My son was baptized this past Easter, and friends of ours came - a Baptist and a Catholic. The service was two and a half ours, and their eyes were bugging out of their heads in amazement.

The Eucharist is not “magical” but it’s obviously supernatural. One of THE biggest excuses for poor liturgy in the Catholic Church is that it really doesn’t matter (which is rubbish) – the Catholic Church has the Blessed Sacrament and the rest is noise. That same line of reasoning is used to denigrate Protestant and other praise services, eg. “The Lutherans sing so beautifully” or “The Presbyterian ministers preach so beautifully” because that’s all they have – God is not sacramentally present in their ecclesiastical groups.

So?

I also think that many (if not most) Catholics have no real understanding of why we attend the Mass. There most certainly is “to get the host” mentality in many places from many people.

 

[ProVobis]

The Eucharist is not “magical” but it’s obviously supernatural. One of THE biggest excuses for poor liturgy in the Catholic Church is that it really doesn’t matter (which is rubbish) – the Catholic Church has the Blessed Sacrament and the rest is noise. That same line of reasoning is used to denigrate Protestant and other praise services, eg. “The Lutherans sing so beautifully” or “The Presbyterian ministers preach so beautifully” because that’s all they have – God is not sacramentally present in their ecclesiastical groups.

So?

I also think that many (if not most) Catholics have no real understanding of why we attend the Mass. There most certainly is “to get the host” mentality in many places from many people.

It appears you have answered your own question of “why is the Mass so Short.” Take away communion and the obligation to attend and how many would even attend at all? Maybe the Byzantine Rite and the EF offer a little more?

 

[boatbearer]

It appears you have answered your own question of “why is the Mass so Short.” Take away communion and the obligation to attend and how many would even attend at all? Maybe the Byzantine Rite and the EF offer a little more?

The Divine Liturgy and Extraordinary Mass have nothing to do with this other than I would suggest the Tridentine Mass played a huge part in forming this mindset – at least in the USA. But I do think the notion that we go to Mass to receive communion drives many people.

Just like the “Christmas & Easter Catholics.” Just where do they get the notion that it’s OK to miss 50+ Holy Days of Obligation (each occurrence a mortal sin for most) yet for some reason they make it to Mass on Christmas and Easter? It probably derives from the fact that we are required to receive Holy Communion at least once per year and it boggles the mind.

 

[ProVobis]

But I do think the notion that we go to Mass to receive communion drives many people.

This could be a cultural thing as well. Where maybe 95-98% of those present in the English OF receive, only about half of those receive in a typical Polish OF. It seems that they attend Mass for reasons other than communion.

 

[jmcrae]

They should count themselves lucky. I know a guy who knew a guy (not making this up) who managed to milk a 2.5 hour Mass out of the Ordinary Form. Now that’s smells-and-bells.

Heck, at my old Protestant church, they made the Liturgy of the Word, all by itself, last an hour and a half, and I don’t remember any additions that aren’t present during the Liturgy of the Word at a Catholic Mass, ordinarily. Rather, each of the hymns was sung in its entirety, instead of just the first couple of verses; the prayers were spoken at such a pace that one could understand the words, and there was more time set aside for the prayers of the people.

It seems perfectly reasonable, to me, that a full Catholic Mass should last at least a couple of hours. It doesn’t cost anything to pray a little longer, or to sing a little longer. The priest isn’t being paid by the hour, and neither is the organist. Our priority on Sundays is Mass and family. No one should be rushing away to work on a Sunday, unless they work in emergency services - and for sports, recreation, school, and other kinds of work, we have the other six days of the week, each containing 24 hours.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

“Excessive?” How did you happen to work that word into the conversation? We’re not talking about “excessive” anything until now…

I call it excessive because it’s what it is. People like you have no qualms in implying that those who don’t add more time devoted to their religion are somewhat less holy than you or something.

Nice retort – not. Is that the sort of rejoinder you have been taught in your school?

No, just from condescending people like you who insult those trying to survive higher education. Stuff like forum posting, blogging, and even fanfiction writing are considered good training for English majors like myself. I owe my good marks in Debate and Argumentation and Discourse Analysis to the time I spend here and other forums. Heck most of the arguments I have used on papers and practice debates in defense of the Church’s moral stances, I derived from ones I have read here.

Yet here you are, implying I don’t make God my top priority simply because I prefer a 1-hour mass so that I could do my homework and study.

 

[ac_claire]

Heck, at my old Protestant church, they made the Liturgy of the Word, all by itself, last an hour and a half, and I don’t remember any additions that aren’t present during the Liturgy of the Word at a Catholic Mass, ordinarily. Rather, each of the hymns was sung in its entirety, instead of just the first couple of verses; the prayers were spoken at such a pace that one could understand the words, and there was more time set aside for the prayers of the people.

It seems perfectly reasonable, to me, that a full Catholic Mass should last at least a couple of hours. It doesn’t cost anything to pray a little longer, or to sing a little longer. The priest isn’t being paid by the hour, and neither is the organist. Our priority on Sundays is Mass and family. No one should be rushing away to work on a Sunday, unless they work in emergency services - and for sports, recreation, school, and other kinds of work, we have the other six days of the week, each containing 24 hours.

I know for me, my preference for a shorter Mass doesn’t have to do with wishing I was somewhere else, necessarily. Or having other priorities. I just have and always have had a hard time sitting still in one place for extended periods of time. I’m kind of a restless person (it’s a fault and I need to work on it, I know.) I also have a hard time sleeping most nights, and sometimes experience difficulty in prayer because it’s hard to quiet my mind and just be still.

So, for me…that’s my reason. My temperament and personality responds better to a shorter form of Mass.

 

[ProVobis]

I know for me, my preference for a shorter Mass doesn’t have to do with wishing I was somewhere else, necessarily. Or having other priorities. I just have and always have had a hard time sitting still in one place for extended periods of time. I’m kind of a restless person (it’s a fault and I need to work on it, I know.) I also have a hard time sleeping most nights, and sometimes experience difficulty in prayer because it’s hard to quiet my mind and just be still.

So, for me…that’s my reason. My temperament and personality responds better to a shorter form of Mass.

I myself have a very short attention span so I sympathize with you. It’s even worse when I feel squeezed in my pew and have all kinds of distractions around me. Mass is such that one shouldn’t be concerned about the time but there are times when one may want it to end a little sooner. We are human, after all.

 

[mick321]

What in your thought process made you reach the erroneous conclusion that I don’t love the Catholic Christian faith?

Your statements, on their face, seem to suggest that every legitimate, by-the-book, Ordinary Form Mass, offered in your parish by a properly ordained Catholic priest, is offensive to your sensibilities. You further suggest that the OF at your parish has been infected by a Tridentine “mindset”.

If you are Catholic, why did you become Catholic in the first place? If not for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, then what? What do you actually love about the Catholic Christian Faith that one could not find as a Jehovah’s Witness or Mormon?

 

[boatbearer]

I call it excessive because it’s what it is. People like you have no qualms in implying that those who don’t add more time devoted to their religion are somewhat less holy than you or something.

No you called it “Oh no, it’s just that I’m not fond of people implying that we oughta be more excessive with our religion when we can’t afford that excess at all.” because you had nothing else to say. You dragged a red herring into the discussion for no reason other than to obfuscate.

No, just from condescending people like you who insult those trying to survive higher education. Stuff like forum posting, blogging, and even fanfiction writing are considered good training for English majors like myself. I owe my good marks in Debate and Argumentation and Discourse Analysis to the time I spend here and other forums. Heck most of the arguments I have used on papers and practice debates in defense of the Church’s moral stances, I derived from ones I have read here.

Please recall that you’re the individual that felt the need to give your CV. You really opened yourself up to criticism with that action, particularly when juxtaposed with your “arguments” and I have yet to say a word.

Yet here you are, implying I don’t make God my top priority simply because I prefer a 1-hour mass so that I could do my homework and study.

Once again you’re insulting me by suggesting that I said or implied something that I did not. You’re not only being offensive you’re being illogical and inflammatory because it would seem you lack the ability to engage in fruitful discourse. You make comments about your “good marks in Debate and Argumentation and Discourse Analysis” yet all you have done is tried to speak for me with only fishing trips to the red herring ocean as your back-up.

Go back and re-read our conversation. You failed.

 

[BernadetteM]

Our OF Mass is always an hour, unless for some unforseen reason an announcement must be made.

I don’t see how a Mass could be less, unless there are no hymns and other parts are taken out, or maybe the priest speaks so fast that you can’t even understand what is being said.

Our sermons are not long, we only sing two verses of the hymns and everything is done very orderly.

I guess if some of you have a problem sitting for an hour in Mass, you can’t possibly have a job, as usually you must sit or stand for 8 hours a day. I also wonder if any of you watch TV for more than 30 minutes or so. That would be very difficult to stay focused anymore than during the Mass.

If someone really seems to dislike going to Mass so much, that they can’t wait to get out, they should really just not go. What is the point as their minds are probably not on the Mass, but where they would rather be.

To be honest I cannot understand any of the excuses on this thread for wanting a 45 minute Mass. Hopefully our Lord will be more understanding than I.

It has nothing to do with being more holy than another, it is just that this is the time a person spends with our Lord in worship. Please think about how bored you will be in Heaven as from Revelations it says the saints (us) will be praying Holy Holy Holy constantly, my that sounds pretty boring.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Go back and re-read our conversation. You failed.

Like I said, go follow your own advice:

That’s scary. Maybe you need to plan your life a little better while making God a higher priority? If you’re hurrying away from Mass on Sunday to deal with “that never shrinking pile of school/office/paper work” then I am amazed how you found the time to come here and post on CAF…

Oh and for the record? If you don’t like how I term a mass that’s significantly longer than an hour as “excessive”, then just say it instead of trying to label it all a red herring. You need to even know what it means before you try to impress me with using such terms. Your quote above is enough back up for all my accusations.

 

[ProVobis]

To be honest I cannot understand any of the excuses on this thread for wanting a 45 minute Mass. Hopefully our Lord will be more understanding than I.

Sometimes I go to a hospital chapel where they have a reverent 30-minute Mass and I get there early and stay longer to pray a while. I can’t say I’ve been short-changed.

 

[boatbearer]

Like I said, go follow your own advice:

Oh and for the record? If you don’t like how I term a mass that’s significantly longer than an hour as “excessive”, then just say it instead of trying to label it all a red herring. You need to even know what it means before you try to impress me with using such terms. Your quote above is enough back up for all my accusations.

Again, you failed.

 

[boatbearer]

Just to set the record straight there can be reverent 30 minute EF and OF Masses. I’m just curious to why some are some so -]vehemently/-] desperately opposed adding to any sign of reverence or pageantry that might lengthen the typical one hour Sunday Mass.

This is not about being “excessive” as one tried to ridiculously suggest. It’s about something (or somethings) entirely different and I think it’s been brewing for a great many decades. Like 10+ decades.

I think one of the biggest is that for years one measure was the shorter the Mass, the better the Mass. Quite a few still use that ludicrous measure. Not because they necessarily believe it, but probably because they have never stopped to think about it. Obviously some just want to exert control – they will fight any change whatsoever – particularly any change to something they may have influenced years ago. Others are simply lazy. Still others are just horribly catechized. Most who fight any lengthening of the Mass are likely a combination of the above.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

On a practical note; the Mass times are structured around a one-hour service and when the service runs long pandemonium is unleashed in the parking lot and local streets. In our parish there are about 375 parking spaces available for a church that seats 1250 so it’s easy to see how a Mass running 10-15 minutes long can really create a traffic jam with 300 or so cars trying to get in while an equal number try to exit. We only provide a half-hour break between services which is cutting it too close to start with in my opinion.

The priests can make the Mass as long as they want but the pastor better plan ahead.

 

[boatbearer]

On a practical note; the Mass times are structured around a one-hour service and when the service runs long pandemonium is unleashed in the parking lot and local streets. In our parish there are about 375 parking spaces available for a church that seats 1250 so it’s easy to see how a Mass running 10-15 minutes long can really create a traffic jam with 300 or so cars trying to get in while an equal number try to exit. We only provide a half-hour break between services which is cutting it too close to start with in my opinion.

The priests can make the Mass as long as they want but the pastor better plan ahead.

Then they should be re-structured.

For what it’s worth, my parish seats about 1,100 and there are less than 30 spaces…

 

[ProVobis]

I’m just curious to why some are some so -]vehemently/-] desperately opposed **adding to any sign of reverence or pageantry **that might lengthen the typical one hour Sunday Mass.

Such as what which hasn’t been already suggested? The Mass has only a certain amount of text to read and which makes it valid.

I’ll agree with you, though, that there appears to have been moves to shorten the Mass in the last few decades, such as eliminating the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and the Last Gospel and then many other prayers too, including shortening the canon for the most part.

 

[Bluegoat]

Our OF Mass is always an hour, unless for some unforseen reason an announcement must be made.

Our sermons are not long, we only sing two verses of the hymns and everything is done very orderly.

With regard to the bold, why does this happen? Of course there are a few cases where it is done for good contextual reasons, but otherwise why not sing the whole thing? Hymns are prayers, so why cut them short - most are not excessively long.