Why is the pope considered the anti christ by the protestants?

[crazzeto]

It is really a shame that Kingsan came here for some answers to a real issue he/she is having regarding his faith, Catholic or otherwise, and in less than a few posts, this has turned nasty. Other than a couple of posts, nothing has been posted to help this brother/sister out. I think you guys need to step back a little and deal with the OP at hand. This is not a good first impression for Kingsan. Peace.

Here here, I’m shocked to say the least with regard to what some people are posting.

 

[stbruderklaus]

Of course truth is truth. What are you trying to accomplish?

Do you realize the damage you do to people? You’re not going to hurt my feelings with your vitriolic tyrades or your snide little remarks, but have you taken even a moment to ponder the damage you do to the face of the Roman Catholic Church by your antics? Even if you don’t care what damage you do to individual inquirers (as if an individual soul had so little value to you) do you think at all about the wounds you inflict on your own communion? This kind of nastiness and abuse is why I have so many refugee Roman Catholics under my pastoral care, trying to heal from their wounds… and I’m certainly not alone in tending the abused and wandering sheep of Rome.

I know I’m not your priest, but you might consider this a reasonable exercise for your Lenten journey this year… along with some lengthy time in the confessional.

I will pray that the Lord has mercy on you.

Truth is truth! Error is error! Get real.

See post # 3.

 

[wmscott]

WoW, you two are something else. Why don’t you two step back and read your response to each other and see just how inflammatory you both are.

 

[John7]

When someone wants to poison somebody he mixes the deadly poison with good and tasty food. It is illogical for that man to just give him the poison. It would be too obvious. So if that man wants the poison to work he has to mix it with attracting and tasty food, so the target might fell in the trap.

ooo-wow

A poison is your implied assertion that Popes are antichrists.

Anyway, you didn’t (couldn’t) answer the question:
Have any of the Popes ever denied Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, or denied the Father and the Son? You know what the answer is, you’re just afraid of the truth…pooooooooor Cristian B.

 

[Tomster]

Of course truth is truth. What are you trying to accomplish?

Do you realize the damage you do to people? You’re not going to hurt my feelings with your vitriolic tyrades or your snide little remarks, but have you taken even a moment to ponder the damage you do to the face of the Roman Catholic Church by your antics? Even if you don’t care what damage you do to individual inquirers (as if an individual soul had so little value to you) do you think at all about the wounds you inflict on your own communion? This kind of nastiness and abuse is why I have so many refugee Roman Catholics under my pastoral care, trying to heal from their wounds… and I’m certainly not alone in tending the abused and wandering sheep of Rome.

I know I’m not your priest, but you might consider this a reasonable exercise for your Lenten journey this year… along with some lengthy time in the confessional.

I will pray that the Lord has mercy on you.

Do you realize the damage your spiritual forefather, Martin Luther, did to Christian unity? Puhleese. Talk about doing damage. The reason you have so many wounded refugees is because your sect has afforded these people the false freedom of private judgment of Scriptures allowing them to do pretty much as they please. So much for trying to heal wounds.

You bet your bippy you are not my priest for the simple reason that you are not a priest. You, personnally, cannot absolve anyone from their sins You are just a layman with a collar on. Luther denied the sacrament of Holy Orders. My question to you at this point would be why would you recommend some lengthy time in the confessional for me when there is no such thing in Lutheranism. That is some pretty faulty pastoral advice on your part.

 

[Tomster]

WoW, you two are something else. Why don’t you two step back and read your response to each other and see just how inflammatory you both are.

If it is getting to hot for you, you might want to leave the kitchen.

This “discussion” is germain to the topic of the thread.

 

[rinnie]

why is the pope considered as the anti christ which was written in the book of Revelation? Protestants in the early centuries claim this with historical records to back them up. I’m now wondering whether the catholic faith is the one really instituted by the Lord Jesus Christ and the church He entrusted to St. Peter. Can anyone clear this up, please! Thank you!

It is sad the way that People will do anything to discredit the CC. But we knew that it would happen, Jesus warned us that there will always be People persecuting the CC.

People will do anything to try to tear down the Living CHrist, the CC. But they will never succeed.

You can bet that the CC is indeed the true church instituted by Christ. Peter was the first Pope and we can proved history to show you that it was handed down from the time of Christ.

And we have the promise from Christ that the CC would always be here. No one can nor will tear it down. The Catholic CHurch is led by the Holy Spirit. It has been from the first day of Pentecost and will be until Jesus returns.

 

[rinnie]

John 21:15-17 And he said to him Lord, you know that I love you. Jesus said to him FEED MY SHEEP. Remember those words. The Pope has the authority given to him by God to Feed the Sheep. The Pope is led by the Power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit cannot fail.

This is a good thing for you to hear though. Study every single piece of Scripture you can, take every single thing they say about our Pope and our Church and write it down. Then investigate. You will see and learn what I have. Your CHurch the RCC will always come out on top and will have revealed to you as it has all Men since the beginning of time. THe fullness of the truth.

By the words of Jesus Christ himself you will find the truth and why everyone wants to try to tear down the true Church the CC.

Remember if they can tear down your Pope they can tear down your Church. So remember the words of Jesus:

If they called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household. Matt; 10:25

If the world hates you know that they have hated me before you. If you were of the world the world would love its own, but because you are not of the world the world hates you. Remember the word that I have said to you A servant is not greater than his master, If THEY PERSECUTED ME, THEY WILL PERSECUTE YOU. John 5:18-20

 

[Holly3278]

The Pope is only considered to be the anti-Christ by some Protestants. It is mostly fundamentalist Protestants who consider the Pope to be the anti-Christ. See the following article from Catholic Answers for more information:

catholic.com/library/The_Antichrist.asp

 

[kingsan]

Hello everyone! This is KINGSAN

I would like to thank you all for the answers you gave. Thanks to wmscott for welcoming me and your fine answer. Thanks to tomster and rinnie too. Thank you to everyone! And to stbruderklaus: that’s one reason why others call the pope the antichrist. the apparent abuse of power.

Pls pray for me that I may be strong in faith. I’m starting to get sick because of the accusations hurled toward the papacy and the catholic church. I only wanted to serve God and be with God after my life is over and that is why I joined CA - to have my questions answered. Peace be with yo my brothers and sisters! Again pls pray for me as I pray for you too - that we may all be at peace and be one in Him - in Jesus - who is our Lord and Saviour.

God Bless you all!

 

[Chi_Rho_Joe]

Hello everyone! This is KINGSAN

…And to stbruderklaus: that’s one reason why others call the pope the antichrist. the apparent abuse of power.

Kingsan, I would like to just to clarify your statement above. It should read "that’s one reason why others call the pope the antichrist. the apparent abuse of EARTHLY power, as opposed to speaking EX CATHEDRA when declaring morals or matters of faith to the faithful.

Pls pray for me that I may be strong in faith. I’m starting to get sick because of the accusations hurled toward the papacy and the catholic church. I only wanted to serve God and be with God after my life is over and that is why I joined CA - to have my questions answered. Peace be with yo my brothers and sisters! Again pls pray for me as I pray for you too - that we may all be at peace and be one in Him - in Jesus - who is our Lord and Saviour.
God Bless you all!

I’m also in agreement with you on that point. You sound like a genuine Catholic who’s taken Jesus’ command to Love One Another very seriously! I’d suggested your question to have been phrased “How do Catholics Defend the Papacy?” Let those that villify the Papal office give their reasons. Those reasons will show…‘why’ protestants hate the office of the Papacy:
a) they don’t understand it (eventhough there’s clear history to how/when/why it was established by Jesus)
b) they prefer to believe hearsay or go with their “gut feeling” or dare not go against their heroic pastor & friends (in lieu of learning the understanding of actual Church Fathers near the time of Jesus, they just claim to “know” after the 15th century - replacing the Church Fathers with their pastors)
c) they don’t want to be subservient to what any person says, but God alone (eventhough Scripture says God Himself says otherwise)
I believe it’s in how we obey Jesus in like manner that will show we are finally one in Him as Jesus prayed!
You’re in my prayers! Peace. CRJ.

 

[stbruderklaus]

In fact, I am a priest.

In fact, I do use the Office of the Keys.

In fact, Lutherans do have confession and absolution as a sacrament.

In fact, you are in public, scandalous, unrepentant sin, and as a consequence you are in grave spiritual danger. Your sins are still bound.

I will not be baited by you any further. The spirit you exhibit is not Christ. Out of Christian charity, I beg you to find peace with Christ, and avail yourself of the gifts of the Church.

You may contact me privately if you wish. My public discourse with you is finished.

Do you realize the damage your spiritual forefather, Martin Luther, did to Christian unity? Puhleese. Talk about doing damage. The reason you have so many wounded refugees is because your sect has afforded these people the false freedom of private judgment of Scriptures allowing them to do pretty much as they please. So much for trying to heal wounds.

You bet your bippy you are not my priest for the simple reason that you are not a priest. You, personnally, cannot absolve anyone from their sins You are just a layman with a collar on. Luther denied the sacrament of Holy Orders. My question to you at this point would be why would you recommend some lengthy time in the confessional for me when there is no such thing in Lutheranism. That is some pretty faulty pastoral advice on your part.

 

[Cristian_B]

ooo-wow

A poison is your implied assertion that Popes are antichrists.

Anyway, you didn’t (couldn’t) answer the question:
Have any of the Popes ever denied Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, or denied the Father and the Son? You know what the answer is, you’re just afraid of the truth…pooooooooor Cristian B.

Show me where did I say the Pope is the anti-Christ.

You are assuming things I never stated. You can only guess what I mean. Who says that what I said is supposed to be deduced? Maybe I didn’t mean that. Logical deduction is not 100% accurate. Maybe I didn’t mean that the Pope is the anti-Christ or maybe I did mean it. Only I know, and I didn’t state whether the Pope is or isn’t the anti-Christ. your logical deduction could be a success in this case, or a fail.

 

[stbruderklaus]

Dear friend,

I do not try to tear down the Roman Catholic Church, nor the pope. In fact, I do the best I can to present them in the best possible light (something that gets me into trouble once in a while with my Lutheran or Protestant friends.) There is much good in Rome, and there is much good in a godly papacy. I think that much of the fractured Christian world began to see this after Vatican II, and for decades now we’ve been learning how to walk more closely together in faith, hope, and love, recognizing the gifts of the One Spirit amongst us. I think this in part reflects the insights of the Roman Catechism, when it recognizes that all Christians who are Baptized in the name of the blessed Trinity are in fact united, however more or less perfectly, with the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. We are One Body-- Christ is not divided.

As a Lutheran, I would not attempt to entice you away from the Roman communion. All I would counsel is that you keep your eyes and your faith on/in Christ, regardless of where you find yourself. His promises are more sure and solid than the heavens and the earth. Bishops, priests, deacons, laity… we all err, and will exhibit our fallen human condition. But Christ will never fail you-- whether in Rome or elsewhere, remain in Christ.

Blessings to you, and peace.

Hello everyone! This is KINGSAN

I would like to thank you all for the answers you gave. Thanks to wmscott for welcoming me and your fine answer. Thanks to tomster and rinnie too. Thank you to everyone! And to stbruderklaus: that’s one reason why others call the pope the antichrist. the apparent abuse of power.

Pls pray for me that I may be strong in faith. I’m starting to get sick because of the accusations hurled toward the papacy and the catholic church. I only wanted to serve God and be with God after my life is over and that is why I joined CA - to have my questions answered. Peace be with yo my brothers and sisters! Again pls pray for me as I pray for you too - that we may all be at peace and be one in Him - in Jesus - who is our Lord and Saviour.

God Bless you all!

 

[crazzeto]

Show me where did I say the Pope is the anti-Christ.

You are assuming things I never stated. You can only guess what I mean. Who says that what I said is supposed to be deduced? Maybe I didn’t mean that. Logical deduction is not 100% accurate. Maybe I didn’t mean that the Pope is the anti-Christ or maybe I did mean it. Only I know, and I didn’t state whether the Pope is or isn’t the anti-Christ. your logical deduction could be a success in this case, or a fail.

Nice attempt to back pedal there Cristian, I hope though, that you did take my advice and pray on the matter.

 

[Tomster]

why is the pope considered as the anti christ which was written in the book of Revelation? Protestants in the early centuries claim this with historical records to back them up. I’m now wondering whether the catholic faith is the one really instituted by the Lord Jesus Christ and the church He entrusted to St. Peter. Can anyone clear this up, please! Thank you!

kingsan,

Take a look at this paying particular attention to the section titled "Antichrist in Ecclesiastical Language, the second paragraph:

www.newadvent.org/cathen/01559a.htm

Additionally, I have before me, a book published by Concordia Publishing house, a Lutheran organ, titled “Lutheran Dictionary” by Walter Lieder.

Under the title of “Pope” it simply states: The Bishop of Rome, head of the Roman Catholic Church. See Antichrist.

So, flipping over to the title “Antichrist” we read: The great enemy of Christ and of Christianity, foretold especially in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12. The Lutheran Confessions declare the Pope of Rome (the Papacy) to be the Antichrist.

I have copied the above verbatim.

To help you to get a better grasp of the topic at hand we Catholics must remember that the internal harmony of Christianity was shattered by the religious revolt of Protestantism. This revolt rent the doctrinal, liturgical and jurisdictional unity of the true Church. The marriage between faith and reason, topics that our Holy Father has spoken so eloquently of lately, ended in a divorce sued for by the Enlightenment.

 

[Tomster]

In fact, I am a priest.

In fact, I do use the Office of the Keys.

In fact, Lutherans do have confession and absolution as a sacrament.

In fact, you are in public, scandalous, unrepentant sin, and as a consequence you are in grave spiritual danger. Your sins are still bound.

I will not be baited by you any further. The spirit you exhibit is not Christ. Out of Christian charity, I beg you to find peace with Christ, and avail yourself of the gifts of the Church.

You may contact me privately if you wish. My public discourse with you is finished.

I prefer to contact you publically and to call you out on the errors you have promulgated on this message board. You have caused grave scandal here.

BTW- Thanks for examining my conscience for me. I was unaware that you had this power.

 

[Cristian_B]

Nice attempt to back pedal there Cristian, I hope though, that you did take my advice and pray on the matter.

I am already convinced about my beliefs, but I am open to other interpretations and explanations or theories.

 

[Tomster]

While I think trying to offer a “Protestant” answer is impossible, I will offer you a Lutheran perspective.

We tend to recognize the office of the papacy, particularly as it came to be defined in the period leading up to and through Trent, as emblematic of the anti-Christ. This is based on the perceived use of papal power and authority, abuses of which were spelled out quite well in the Lutheran confessional document entitled, “The Power and Primacy of the Pope.”

In short sketch, Lutherans understand that any person or office which claims complete dictatorial control over the Church of Christ, unconstrained or unjudged by the larger Church or even by the Holy Scriptures, who attempts to wield the Power of the Keys in the secular world and through them to do violence to the simple proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, is in fact acting in the spirit of anti-christ.

Frankly, Lutherans did not confess that the papacy must always remain in this evil spirit, and we are glad to notice that the Pope no longer arrogates to himself a “divine right” to transfer the kingdoms of the world, nor does he attempt to use his power as universal bishop to kill, torture, or imprison dissenters who prefer a simpler piety and approach to the saving Gospel of Christ. Some Lutherans were happy to walk with the bishop of Rome as the western Patriarch for the good order and discipline of the Church, so long as he would stop raging against our churches and trying to find ways to kill us.

This new spirit of brotherhood in the Christian faith, despite our differences, inspires most Lutherans today to note that the bishop of Rome in our own day is not acting in an anti-christian spirit, and does not really fall fully under the condemnations of the Lutheran Confessions. Of course, this doesn’t mean that we think all his pretentions to his office are legitimate, but so long as he is willing to walk together with us in Christian charity, many of us are willing to do the same.

Grace and peace.

As if the Lutheran Confessions have the power to condemn anything. The Lutheran belief that the Pope is the anti-Christ was an afterthought of Dr. Martin when he decided to place it in the Smalcaldic articles. When Luther proposed this article Melancthon refused to support it as did most of the other Reformers.

Nevertheless, it is still on the “books” so to say and I am quite surprised that as a good Lutheran you trying to find a way to distance yourself from this man made dogma.

 

[crazzeto]

I am already convinced about my beliefs, but I am open to other interpretations and explanations or theories.

Having a strong faith is a good thing, but it is a good thing also to look at the foundation upon which your faith wrests. So I would ask you again, to please pray and study as I have exhorted earlier.