Why is the pope important

[Fauken]

I take it his church has a pastor that they screen and hire. Can he point out the Biblical basis for hiring and screening a pastor? Or putting said pastor’s name on the sign outside the church like I’ve seen with so many protestant churches?

 

[unitive_mystic]

He’s a non denominational Christian.

 

[Fauken]

Okay, that question would still apply to him then.

 

[guanophore]

Well my protestant friend is concerned about it because the process of them picking a new pope has no biblical origins. Which means it is man made.

Clearly your friend has little experience reading and understanding Scripture, not to be able to see the origins.

 

[commenter]

If you look at my post several posts back comparing Protestant and Catholic pope process can you say the Protestant or nondenominational is not “man made”? At your friend’s church what big name do they usually cite? Do they have Joel’ s books in lobby? Is the pastor himself a big name? Or is he aligned in a chain with a big name? Is he on tv or radio locally or national?

 

[unitive_mystic]

Where in the bible does it say to continue the papal primacy? Our protestant friend knows that Peter was the first pope. He just doesn’t understand why we continue electing popes because the bible doesn’t say to continue it…

 

[TheOldColonel]

Ask him if Billy Graham was important.

 

[commenter]

Where in the bible does it say to continue the papal primacy? Our protestant friend knows that Peter was the first pope. He just doesn’t understand why we continue electing popes because the bible doesn’t say to continue it…

The bible does not say we should continue feeding the poor, etc. We live 2000 years later. We were not there for the sermon on the mount.

The bible doesn’t say we should 100s of things Catholic and Protestant churches do nowadays, including non denoms. Through the experience of the Church - that is, Tradition - people decided that certain needs that were present during the time of Christ, including the need for leadership, were still present today.

I suppose any of the various forms of church government - individual only, or congregational, or presbyterial, trustee, episcopal, patriarchal, or episcopal/papal has been criticized as “man made”. This includes every form taken by non denoms. There are no forms of church government that are not vulnerable to criticism as man made. They all are conscientious efforts to resolve a need, all can claim scriptural possible connections.

So we all are forced to look at Tradition, the experience of Christianity. IMHO the experiences of the papacy holds less disadvantages than the other forms. The papacy is much more visible, much more accountable than the others.

I once car pooled with a Baptist. She would extol the value of congregational government as the only biblical one. So I pointed out some very spectacular problems with some congregations. She said “they were bad congregations, that has nothing to do with us, Baptists follow the Bible”. But every congregation gone bad kept quoting the bible too.

 

[unitive_mystic]

But the bible does tell us to keep on feeding the poor. And does all of this mean that we just guess what God wants us to do because it isn’t specifically mentioned in scripture? Like the papacy, for an example.

 

[commenter]

But the bible does tell us to keep on feeding the poor. And does all of this mean that we just guess what God wants us to do because it isn’t specifically mentioned in scripture? Like the papacy, for an example.

Christians can learn from experience over the past 2000 years. If you consider the papacy a “guess” rather than scripture, well every other form of church government is also a guess, too. In fact, Catholicism is explicitly based on the Magisterium, Scripture, and Tradition.

The Trinity is not very explicitly described in Scripture either, especially the Holy Spirit. The great majority of nondenoms follow the Magisterium on the Trinity, and reject groups that do not as “cults”. Your friend’s non denom likely follows the Magisterium implicitly on lots of things. Christians learned from experience. Catholics just make it explicit.

 

[guanophore]

Where in the bible does it say to continue the papal primacy?

What a curious question - almost as if there was some expectation that the New Testament was intended to be a complete compendium of the faith!

Are you saying that “papal primacy” is in the Bible?

He just doesn’t understand why we continue electing popes because the bible doesn’t say to continue it…

Ask him where it says in the Bible that everything must be in the Bible.

Ask him where in the Bible there is a table of contents for the Bible.

Ask him why he worships on Sunday, when the Bible doesn’t say to do it.

Ask him why he does not follow the Apostolic commandment given in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 NASB - So then, brethren, stand firm and hold …
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

 

[guanophore]

And does all of this mean that we just guess what God wants us to do because it isn’t specifically mentioned in scripture?

Is this what you believe the Bible tells us?

John 16:12-14
12 ‘I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Did Jesus write any Scripture? Does He command the disciples to write? If He wanted them to write, why is that not in the Bible?

 

[unitive_mystic]

But non denomination Christianity doesn’t even have a government. It’s strictly from the bible, no leader or tradition.

 

[commenter]

There is always someone who chooses which bible verses apply to a given situation, and which interpretation is proper. If you belong to a non denominational congregation, then it is the ministers and teachers. If you belong to no congregation, then you are governed by the kinds of past and present exposure you have had about Christianity.

If you live in North America, Europe, or similar cultures, there is a great deal of influence by the secular culture about Christianity. You are “governed” by how the media presents Christ and His message. The culture is not at all silent or neutral about Jesus, it “governs” non denoms in a thousand ways. In fact, the secular culture governs non denoms more than it influences those committed to a denomination.

If you belong to no church, you no doubt turn to the same 27 New Testament books chosen by some authority many centuries ago. So that is kind of a “governing”. You also likely follow Christian tradition about the Trinity, and reject as cults those that reject the Magisterium on the Trinity. So you are “governed” to some extent by Tradition. You may not accept recent popes’ governing, but you, indirectly, accept the governing of past popes.

So there is no non-government option. There are different government options, including for all nondenom Christians.

 

[Bon_Croix]

To have a Pope is important.

Why?

B/C to not have a Pope and a unified teaching is to have what the devil has. The devil has this… He works via hidden means. Without Jesus, we can not even detect the devil because his game is secret and hidden. He contorts our consciences without our knowing it. He traps us without our knowing it.

Now compare what the devil has to what a secret society has. Does a secret society resemble the workings of the devil?

 

[guanophore]

But non denomination Christianity doesn’t even have a government. It’s strictly from the bible, no leader or tradition.

Posh.

Go into a non-denom meeting and go up to the podium and begin to preach. If anyone comes up to you or interferes, tell them you have been moved by the Holy Spirit to give the congregation a “word” from God. Let me know what happens!