T
teancum79
Guest
Just wondering I know the CC is really big on tradition so I was wondering why this one changed?
- Status
D
dosdog
Guest
The Trullan Synod (692 A.D.), also known as the Quinisext, determined that bishops should not be married, but marriage was permitted for deacons and priests before ordination. No marriage was allowed after ordination. A priest or a deacon could not renounce his wife on the pretense of piety, but sexual relations were prohibited prior to celebrating the liturgy, which usually meant the Sunday observance
byzantines.net/epiphany/ordination.htm
P
PaulDupre
Guest
There was never a tradition that the pope should be married. Peter was married prior to his calling as an apostle, but there is no record of any apostle being married after his call.
The tradition of unmarried bishops (the successors to the apostles) evolved over the first few centuries, as documented by the ECFs, as the Church recognized more and more fully the role of the bishop “in persona Christi”. Unlike Mormons, who have traditionally believed Jesus to have been plurally married, Christians have always understood that Jesus was celibate.
D
dosdog
Guest
Historians have long pointed to the Essenes as the forerunner to the Christians. It is known that early Christians took much from the Essenes they withdrew themselves to the desert to live in enclaves which might be called communes but which bear a significant resemblance to later monasteries. Essenes did not marry; they shared property in common; they ate all meals together; and they lived a strictly regulated life of study and prayer; and they held themselves to a higher standard of virtue than others outside their community
John the Baptist seems to have belonged to the Essenes
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/dfg/jesu/topic2.htm
jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=E&artid=478
John the Baptist seems to have belonged to the Essenes
academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/history/dfg/jesu/topic2.htm
jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=E&artid=478
R
RebeccaJ
Guest
The few Popes who were married does not constitute Tradition.
265 Popes total, 6 married before receiving Holy Orders
E
Eden
Guest
Just in response to the title of the thread, Pope Benedict XVI is not married because he took a vow of celibacy when he was ordained as a priest in 1951.
H
Hisalone
Guest
So men thought to improve on Christ who chose married men to be apostles?
D
dosdog
Guest
Who Chose Moses?
Message 33 of 46 in Discussion
From:Shalom
While Torah is silent on the details it is loud on telling Israel that they should judge for itself how to implement the commandments. Moses delegated, there was a time we had Judges, Sannhedrin etc.
How to keep Shabbat is Man-Made
As if that is a novel concept? Of course the way Jews observe Shabbat is a product of the people. That’s exactly how it was intended to be.
Shalom
And Where is it recorded in the TORAH - Moses delegated his authority to the Sannhedrin ? Nowhere I know
While Bible is silent on the details it is loud on telling Catholics that they should judge for itself how to implement the Christs Teaching. Jesus delegated, there was a time we had Apostles, Churches etc.
Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Many Catholics have heard that “kepha” is used in both places in this verse ("You are Peter [kepha] and on this rock [kepha] I will build my Church . . . "), but few have seen it with their own eyes.
So here 'tis:
jimmyakin.org/2005/04/while_were_at_i.html
H
Hisalone
Guest
All of this is irrelevant, can you answer my question?
D
dosdog
Guest
Of couse it’s relevent it’s called obedience to authority - Just ask adam and eve
H
Hisalone
Guest
Oh traditions of men.
D
dosdog
Guest
St. Paul’s refusal to allow Titus to be circumcised even as a pure concession to the extremists (Galatians 2:2-5).
ordered Timothy to get circumcised
Thus he shortly after circumcised Timothy (Acts 16:1-3)
Why not tell us what’s so wrong with celibacy?
H
Hisalone
Guest
Christ didnt find it to be a requirement.
Can you tell me why you think you can improve on Christ?
D
dosdog
Guest
1 Corinthians 7 38 Therefore, both he that giveth his virgin in marriage, doth well; and he that giveth her not, doth better.
Matthew 19 11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.
drbo.org/chapter/47019.htm
H
Hisalone
Guest
But Christ didnt find it to be better.
If you cant give a good answer maybe it would be proper to admit the the Catholics got this one wrong and go to the next topic.
D
dosdog
Guest
So you don’t care what the Apostles said - Got It
Matthew 19 11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.
drbo.org/chapter/47019.htm
E
Eden
Guest
- Christ* was celibate.
Z
Zooey
Guest
There you go!!If Christ believed that marriage was a prerequisite to being a spiritual leader, He would have been married Himself.
Since He was not, it is in the court of the “pro-marriage for the pope” crowd, to establish why this should be part of the job description.
B
Benadam
Guest
Mathew 19
27 Then Peter answering, said to him: **Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: **what therefore shall we have? 28 And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of his majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. **29 And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. **
**Peter speaking for the 12 states that they have left all things. **
Jesus in response lists the bonds of family because those are the things we are most attached to and the most difficult things to leave.
Notice there is no qualifier to Peter’s description of what they left as ‘all things’ when Jesus lists the bonds of family and notice that the marital bond is included.
Not an improvement but obedience to the most difficult things to leave and be conformed to Christ.
- Status