Why Is the "sign of peace",during mass,turning into a prolonged party?

[Spiller]

If that is what people normally did, it shouldn’t. However when you turn it into a five minute meet and greet with groups forming to chat for a minute and young men roaming up and down the aisles looking for cute girls to greet it most certainly does.

The priestly celebrant sets the tempo there…

 

[Spiller]

We have an elderly, retired priest who sometimes celebrates the Mass for us. He is VERY fast – he is still used to the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines.

Just try to spend more than a few seconds shaking the hands on either side of you and he’ll start the Agnus Dei acapella…

 

[palmas85]

The priestly celebrant sets the tempo there…

Priests are quite often the ones who initiate the very abuses that we are all concerned with. They are the ones who often apparently feel the need to interject their own personalities into the Mass and make themselves the center of attention.

 

[palmas85]

We have an elderly, retired priest who sometimes celebrates the Mass for us. He is VERY fast --** he is still used to the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines.
**
Just try to spend more than a few seconds shaking the hands on either side of you and he’ll start the Agnus Dei acapella…

I knew someone find a way to start bashing the Traditional Mass when the discussion wasn’t even about it.

I’m glad that you didn’t let me down:thumbsup:

20 minute Tridentines? My friend you’ll have to do better than that on this forum. We’ve had posters swear that they could be done in five minutes or less:thumbsup:

As far as 20 minute Masses. I been to my share of daily Paulines that fall into that time frame as well.

 

[Armor_of_God]

I’m very new to the faith (baptized, confirmed and first Holy Communion 4/13/08). I obviously don’t have any perspective as to the way things use to be. As a new Catholic, I was amazed at how people would come up during the sign of peace and shake my hand, welcome me to the faith, give me a hug, call me “brother”. It gave me a sense of belonging and love that I certainly never felt in any Protestant church before. I can see where people who have been in The Church their whole life and seen many changes might see it as turning into something less dignified, but personally I don’t see how welcoming and expressing our love for our bretheren and sisters can ever be a bad thing.

Hi Philman61,

Welcome Home!

I am very happy to hear that you have felt quite welcomed to the Catholic Church.

You are right - There is absolutely nothing wrong with welcoming and showing our love for our brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, as others have pointed out, loud, worldly “meet and greets” just before Communion can be very distracting and disruptive to communal worship.

For some people, that one hour at Mass is very precious, and may be the only time they have to fully focus on worship. If they come in early to pray and people are talking about the baseball game or the Church potluck supper, and then during the sign of peace people are talking about the long weekend, and then they stay after Mass to try to pray and adore the Blessed Sacrament and people are lingering in the pews and chatting about highschool graduation or what happened at work that week, or even poking at the person trying to pray…well, there just seems to be no time that is truly available to worship the Eucharist.

I understand the human need for fellowship, affection, and compassion from our brothers and sisters. But this is where it is very important to have some kind of regular social gathering after Mass, as well as other social activities for all age groups.

God Bless!

 

[Fitswimmer]

Hi Philman61,

Welcome Home!

I am very happy to hear that you have felt quite welcomed to the Catholic Church.

You are right - There is absolutely nothing wrong with welcoming and showing our love for our brothers and sisters in Christ.

However, as others have pointed out, loud, worldly “meet and greets” just before Communion can be very distracting and disruptive to communal worship.

For some people, that one hour at Mass is very precious, and may be the only time they have to fully focus on worship. If they come in early to pray and people are talking about the baseball game or the Church potluck supper, and then during the sign of peace people are talking about the long weekend, and then they stay after Mass to try to pray and adore the Blessed Sacrament and people are lingering in the pews and chatting about highschool graduation or what happened at work that week, or even poking at the person trying to pray…well, there just seems to be no time that is truly available to worship the Eucharist.

I understand the human need for fellowship, affection, and compassion from our brothers and sisters. But this is where it is very important to have some kind of regular social gathering after Mass, as well as other social activities for all age groups.

God Bless!

That’s why there are Church halls and gathering spaces! There’s no reason that the sign of peace needs to turn into a prolonged meet and greet, nor should anyone’s time with the Blessed Sacrament be interrupted by conversations.

Just because a person wishes to spend time in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament doesn’t mean that they are loners or that they are against fellowship with the community. What it may mean is that they have a sense of proper time and place where such fellowship should take place.

 

[ethelzguy]

I knew someone find a way to start bashing the Traditional Mass when the discussion wasn’t even about it.

hmmmmm…where did he BASH the TLM?

Or, is that a little paranoia creeping in? The post simply commented on an older priest who could still do the TLM quickly, which many of us well remember…and that said priest had a penchant for “moving things along”…even saying the NO.

 

[palmas85]

hmmmmm…where did he BASH the TLM?

Or, is that a little paranoia creeping in? The post simply commented on an older priest who could still do the TLM quickly, which many of us well remember…and that said priest had a penchant for “moving things along”…even saying the NO.

He said. and I’ll quote

**He is VERY fast – he is still used to the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines.
**

I think that speaks very eloquently to exactly what his intent was in posting. It had nothiong whatsoever to do with the Sign of Peace, and why it is often abused, which is as I see what the forum was about,. Not about the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines as he put it.

As far as bashing, I was completely unaware that in the days of the Tridentines as he states, the Masses were whiz church. Sounds kind of disrespectful, don’t you think?

If you don’t think that is bashing, then what is it?

Unless of course it is true that posters can say just about anything they want about the Traditional Mass and it’s all good. No harm intended.

 

[ethelzguy]

He said. and I’ll quote

**He is VERY fast – he is still used to the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines.
**

I think that speaks very eloquently to exactly what his intent was in posting. It had nothiong whatsoever to do with the Sign of Peace, and why it is often abused, which is as I see what the forum was about,. Not about the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines as he put it.

Difference of opinion, I guess. An old-school priest who is used to speed-mass from the old days might not have much use for “interruptions” like shaking hands at peacetime.

 

[EasterJoy]

He said. and I’ll quote

**He is VERY fast – he is still used to the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines.
**

I think that speaks very eloquently to exactly what his intent was in posting. It had nothiong whatsoever to do with the Sign of Peace, and why it is often abused, which is as I see what the forum was about,. Not about the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines as he put it.

As far as bashing, I was completely unaware that in the days of the Tridentines as he states, the Masses were whiz church. Sounds kind of disrespectful, don’t you think?

If you don’t think that is bashing, then what is it?

Unless of course it is true that posters can say just about anything they want about the Traditional Mass and it’s all good. No harm intended.

Actually, I have heard a lot of older people talk fondly of priests who “got through” the Mass quickly in the old days. It had to be significantly faster than Mass is now, or who would have instituted a one hour “fast”? You’d have to be eating in the parking lot to break your fast at our parish on a Sunday.

Some people “prize” the sign of peace for the social aspect, missing the point of the ritual. Some people used to “prize” mere speed in celebrating Mass in the old days, which was also missing the point, don’t you think?

Catholics miss the point sometimes in what they like about a particular way of offering the Mass. I don’t see how the two observations don’t both belong in this thread.

The sign of peace isn’t “bad” because some people miss the point of the ritual, any more than the EF would be “bad” because some people want a Mass they can get through more quickly, and with less “participation.” Both attitudes do disservice to the Mass, but aren’t arguments against that form of the Mass itself.

 

[palmas85]

Difference of opinion, I guess. An old-school priest who is used to speed-mass from the old days might not have much use for “interruptions” like shaking hands at peacetime.

So you would agree that the pre-conciliar Church was as he said, a whiz Church?

 

[Spiller]

Priests are quite often the ones who initiate the very abuses that we are all concerned with. They are the ones who often apparently feel the need to interject their own personalities into the Mass and make themselves the center of attention.

Of course…

But the Kiss of Peace is still a wonderful thing. Almost anything can be deformed from beauty to ugly. Those however who feel there is something intrinsically wrong with the KOP are wrong. Nothing more than reactionary.

 

[Spiller]

I knew someone find a way to start bashing the Traditional Mass when the discussion wasn’t even about it.

I’m glad that you didn’t let me down:thumbsup:

20 minute Tridentines? My friend you’ll have to do better than that on this forum. We’ve had posters swear that they could be done in five minutes or less:thumbsup:

As far as 20 minute Masses. I been to my share of daily Paulines that fall into that time frame as well.

Just like those who just HAVE to interject that whatever problem you might be facing will magically go away if you attend the EF? Hypocritical.

 

[Spiller]

I knew someone find a way to start bashing the Traditional Mass when the discussion wasn’t even about it.

I’m glad that you didn’t let me down:thumbsup:

20 minute Tridentines? My friend you’ll have to do better than that on this forum. We’ve had posters swear that they could be done in five minutes or less

As far as 20 minute Masses. I been to my share of daily Paulines that fall into that time frame as well.

Could be… No one knew what was going on up there anyways. The priest turned his back to us and mumbled in a foreign language…

 

[Spiller]

That’s why there are Church halls and gathering spaces! **There’s no reason that the sign of peace needs to turn into a prolonged meet and greet, nor should anyone’s time with the Blessed Sacrament be interrupted by conversations. **

Just because a person wishes to spend time in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament doesn’t mean that they are loners or that they are against fellowship with the community. What it may mean is that they have a sense of proper time and place where such fellowship should take place.

Quite true. Omitting it (in the Pauline) suggests something is wrong with the celebrant, the faithful or both. Something is broken…

 

[Spiller]

He said. and I’ll quote

**He is VERY fast – he is still used to the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines.
**

I think that speaks very eloquently to exactly what his intent was in posting.** It had nothiong whatsoever to do with the Sign of Peace,** and why it is often abused, which is as I see what the forum was about,. Not about the old whiz-church days of the 20 minute Tridentines as he put it.

As far as bashing, I was completely unaware that in the days of the Tridentines as he states, the Masses were whiz church. Sounds kind of disrespectful, don’t you think?

If you don’t think that is bashing, then what is it?

Unless of course it is true that posters can say just about anything they want about the Traditional Mass and it’s all good. No harm intended.

You’re wrong…

This priest (a wonderful priest) is of the get-em-in-and-get-em-out" school. He learned that while celebrating the Tridentine and remnants of it still stick. Brevity was very highly regarded back then apparently.

The other thing is that important is that if a given parish abused the KOP, they certainly wouldn’t if he was the celebrant. Yeah, the musicians and others would get upset but people would learn quickly that the KOP is alloted 20-30s and that’s it.

 

[Spiller]

Actually, I have heard a lot of older people talk fondly of priests who “got through” the Mass quickly in the old days. It had to be significantly faster than Mass is now, or who would have instituted a one hour “fast”? You’d have to be eating in the parking lot to break your fast at our parish on a Sunday.

Some people “prize” the sign of peace for the social aspect, missing the point of the ritual. Some people used to “prize” mere speed in celebrating Mass in the old days, which was also missing the point, don’t you think?

Catholics miss the point sometimes in what they like about a particular way of offering the Mass. I don’t see how the two observations don’t both belong in this thread.

The sign of peace isn’t “bad” because some people miss the point of the ritual, any more than the EF would be “bad” because some people want a Mass they can get through more quickly, and with less “participation.” Both attitudes do disservice to the Mass, but aren’t arguments against that form of the Mass itself.

So very true…

I’m convinced that those who universally condemn the KOP are also missing the point…

 

[Antegin]

In the old country cities like Rome, Paris, Viesbatten, there was a little Church about a sixth of the size of the our modern Churches, on just about every street corner. Congregations were not that large and everybody new each other. They could greet each other as brethern because they truely were.

People in America tried to being some of that custom back to our large congregations but the sign of peace turned onto a make out session in some places. Something I remember more than a few Monsignors trying to fix asfter it started.

Ten years ago, I had to travel over an hour to get to a Chapel where the congregation was still that small. Ten years later that parish has 2000 families and has completed construction of a school and new 6x larger Church. Now we don’t have problems with “love-ins” during the sign of peace, but of people offended when their brethern won’t extend a sign of peace either because they are immuno comprimised or OCD.

Bottom line, I think the problem is the ever growing priest/parishioner ratio and mushrooming parish sizes.

 

[Spiller]

In the old country cities like Rome, Paris, Viesbatten, there was a little Church about a sixth of the size of the our modern Churches, on just about every street corner. Congregations were not that large and everybody new each other. They could greet each other as brethern because they truely were.

People in America tried to being some of that custom back to our large congregations but the sign of peace turned onto a make out session in some places. Something I remember more than a few Monsignors trying to fix asfter it started.

Ten years ago, I had to travel over an hour to get to a Chapel where the congregation was still that small. Ten years later that parish has 2000 families and has completed construction of a school and new 6x larger Church. Now we don’t have problems with “love-ins” during the sign of peace, but of people offended when their brethern won’t extend a sign of peace either because they are immuno comprimised or OCD.

Bottom line, I think the problem is the ever growing priest/parishioner ratio and mushrooming parish sizes.

Naw.

The sign of peace is NOT about saying hello to your friends…

 

[palmas85]

You’re wrong…

This priest (a wonderful priest) is of the get-em-in-and-get-em-out" school. He learned that while celebrating the Tridentine and remnants of it still stick. Brevity was very highly regarded back then apparently.

The other thing is that important is that if a given parish abused the KOP, they certainly wouldn’t if he was the celebrant. Yeah, the musicians and others would get upset but people would learn quickly that the KOP is alloted 20-30s and that’s it.

Well since I was around for a significant period of those years, pre Vatican II and all, I can tell you honestly, at least at the Masses I served at, the only Masses that came close to twenty to twenty five minutes were daily low Masses with no sermon and no one receiving Communion. I served at a lot of Masses, so when people bring up this flat out fiction about speed masses and everything else, it makes mu blood boil. Sorry.

It might interest you to know that that old lie, speed Masses, has been around since the days of Martin Luther and his trip to Rome. He, old Martin, said that the priests used to compete to see how many Masses they could say in a day, getting stipends for each Mass you know to see who could rake in the most money. There was also something alluded to that the priests would then retire to Clerics only brothels, although I’ve never been able to find that particular reference, the brothel, that is in any of his writings.

And no, to the best of my knowledge, brevity was no more highly prized then than it is now. And believe me, there are plenty of 20-25 minute Paulines being celebrated these days…