Why is the South So Hostile to Catholicism?

[pipper]

Yes indeedy it is the self named “churches of Christ” I was talking about.

 

[BMCD]

I am currently an unhappy member of the “Church of Christ” who has been considering Catholicism and some of what you say is true, and other parts differ greatly from my experience. I was raised in the “Church of Christ” and attended their schools (including a “Church of Christ” college in Alabama). I feel the need to clarify some things…

where to begin, you have a lot of questions/statements and I will attempt to answer them all.

They hate the cross. These people claim to be “sola scriptura” formed by the bible alone. But in reality they look at what Catholics believe and do, and do the exact opposite. When I was a cofc member it was routinely said “we can’t do/say that, it would be Catholic”. In fact the bible comes a distant second place to their fundamentalist bigotry. The churchachrist is based on a “apostacy-restoration” dichotomy very simular to the Mormons. They claim that the church started out following the bible as a strict “blueprint or roadmap” according to them when the church stopped following the bible in such a legalistic manner the church became “apostate” and simply stopped existing until they “restored” it back into existence. They truly think there were no Christians for centuries, and everyone went to hell. Of course that myth comes to pieces becuase there was no recognised bible until ca 390, long after the “apostacy” took hold. They claim the church became “apostate” by not following the bible before the bible even existed.

1. Well the church I attend has about a ten foot tall cross with a backlight behind it.
2. I was never raised to do the exact opposite of Catholics. In fact I found myself teaming up with Catholics against Baptists in many theological discussions.
3. I was told that the church of christ started because of a wish to reform the church, I was never taught that there was an apostasy.
4. Some older people really believed that the church of christ was the only way thing, but I simply do not know of anyone personally in my congregation who believes that now. As for me notice the quotation marks around “Church of Christ” and that will show you how I feel about the matter.

Having said that keep in mind that each “Church of Christ” congregation is governed at the congregational level only so beliefs can differ wildly. In my city alone congregations vary from one who believes that a fellowship hall is the c of c version of a mortal sin, to another that has faith healings.

 

[pipper]

I am currently an unhappy member of the “Church of Christ” who has been considering Catholicism and some of what you say is true, and other parts differ greatly from my experience. I was raised in the “Church of Christ” and attended their schools (including a “Church of Christ” college in Alabama). I feel the need to clarify some things…

1. Well the church I attend has about a ten foot tall cross with a backlight behind it.
2. I was never raised to do the exact opposite of Catholics. In fact I found myself teaming up with Catholics against Baptists in many theological discussions.
3. I was told that the church of christ started because of a wish to reform the church, I was never taught that there was an apostasy.
4. Some older people really believed that the church of christ was the only way thing, but I simply no of nobody personally in my congregation who believes that now. As for me notice the quotation marks around “Church of Christ” and that will show you how I feel about the matter.

Having said that keep in mind that each “Church of Christ” congregation is governed at the congregational level only so beliefs can differ wildly. In my city alone congregations vary from one who believes that a fellowship hall is the c of c version of a mortal sin, to another that has faith healings.

I agree the campbellites do vary. I was mostly speaking of the congregation where I was raised and dunked. They firmly taught the “apostacy/restoration” dichotomy which is exactly where the term “restoration” movement came from.

I have never in my life seen any cross at any cofc church “building”, or around the neck of any campbellite either. “My” church was so convservative that they forbade Christmas and Easter, because there is no “necasary inference” for it in the bible.

The main, biggest thing I objected to was the churcachrist’s idolatry directed to the bible. The preacher there every single time he quoted the bible preceed it with “God says…” instead of “the bible says”, the bible is not God.

I have been out of “THE CHURCH” for more than thirty years now, and things have changed for the better in the mean time. They have become a little more progressive since, no longer teaching they are the only Christians.

But to see how I was taught and raised take a look at

www.bible.ca

be sure and get the ca correct it is not com.

And you might enjoy the support group at exchurchofchrist.com. That site is filled with former church of Christ members, the only thing we have in common is the we were members of the “church of Christ” who left. The members there run from Catholics to Atheists, to currently unchurched members.

God bless Pip

 

[BMCD]

www.bible.ca

I noticed that my current congregation is not on that site’s chosen list.

With the “Church of Christ”, when you see the word “Church” spelled with a capital C, it will usually be more progressive, but when you see “church” spelled with a lower case c, well just read that site and you will see if you really want to know. My alma mater in Montgomery Alabama is more associated with the big C.

One other thing, “THE CHURCH” is still an expression used by a majority of both Church and church of Christ members alike to describe the group unfortunately.

 

[ccolley2]

I am currently an unhappy member of the “Church of Christ” who has been considering Catholicism and some of what you say is true, and other parts differ greatly from my experience. I was raised in the “Church of Christ” and attended their schools (including a “Church of Christ” college in Alabama). I feel the need to clarify some things…
.

God bless you on your search for the right Church for you. You may also want to look at the coming home network at
www.chnetwork.org
I will for you.
CC

 

[Angels_Unaware]

The Southeast and Tennessee Valley areas were settled by descendents of the Puritans, who of course settled the Mass. area 150 years or so before the United States was formed.

The Puritans are the religious forebearers of modern-day, Bible-only fundamentalist evangelical churches (and the conservative Republican party). There is a strong cultural element within this group that is anti-authority and anti-intellectual. This cultural attitude was nourished by their place in society as refugees from European persecution and as frontiersman who had to rely on themselves for survival as they settled the Tennessee valley area, and expanded out into the south and midwest areas.

If you remember your history, the Puritans were so extreme that they dis-allowed colorful clothing and artwork inside their places of worship, and refused to allow reading in the fiction genre because fiction is a “lie”. They believe strongly in the individual having recourse to everything needed for their survival, and distrust the concept of any intemediary, such as priest, or the benevolence of any form of large government.

To answer your question, there is such hostility to Catholicism because they associate Catholicism with government organization, royalty, intermediaries, intelllectual pursuits, and ultimately they connect those concepts with fear of subjugation.

It’s just a cultural bias. Those who are open to learning can often drop the bias they were raised with, but many are simply not open enough to do it.

 

[ljubim]

Possibly because of the fundamentalists everywhere? And baptists who accept that we’re not christians

I have had a lot of really bad experiences with anti-catholics, including once at a Catholic forensics league tournament (which is sponsored by the church but open to all… one of two major national debate leagues). We had convinced a protestant friend to come with us to the tournament mass and ended up rushing down the hall because at the end one team member was yelling to her(and us) that catholicism is the whore of babylon, demonic, and much more that I’ve been trying to block from my mind. In the end she turned around and didn’t come. We were filled with sadness until the most beautiful mass I’ve ever been to healed the pain. (might I add none of the adults said anything about the slander. They’re all hard-core southern protestants)

That was one of the worst… another was with a friend at work, a teacher at school, a lady walking out of St Pat’s on my way in, and countless more. Now that I’ve grown a bit, I praise God that I’ve had the oppurtunity to experience this persecution at albeit small levels, because “Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” And after each major event came a profound sense of peace, such as the mass and then walking into St. Patrick’s for the first time, and as for the one with the teacher, my priest was really proud of me and explained many of these ideas. Also I don’t like the south very much (originally a Jersey girl) but I can’t help but wonder if I didn’t experience these things then my faith wouldn’t be as strong…

I am very sad for those who are dragged away from the church because of angry protestants in the south, but for those who perservere we have a lot of happiness waiting for us in the future.

 

[Walden]

www.bible.ca

I noticed that my current congregation is not on that site’s chosen list.

With the “Church of Christ”, when you see the word “Church” spelled with a capital C, it will usually be more progressive, but when you see “church” spelled with a lower case c, well just read that site and you will see if you really want to know. My alma mater in Montgomery Alabama is more associated with the big C.

One other thing, “THE CHURCH” is still an expression used by a majority of both Church and church of Christ members alike to describe the group unfortunately.

Wow…this thread came back from the dead!

Nice to meet an Eagle here. I am of the legal variety. I’m sure my experience differs from the undergrad experience, but I’ve personally never experienced any animosity here.

 

[lilred5]

As I understand Northern Louisiana is mostly filled with Baptists, Pentcostals, member of so called “non-denoiminational” denominations, IOW the people in the South that are hostile to us Catholics.

It is Southern LA where the Catholics and Cajuns are located.

That sounds about right.
I live near Baton Rouge so we have lots a Catholics around me but over the summer I went to Monroe for a week and you would not believe the amount of Pentecostal churches I saw on the way back. All right next to one another.
Catholics and protestants in South Louisiana tend to kind of avoid one another. I’ve never really experienced any “anti-catholic” indications until recently. A Baptist in my English class was talking about Catholics and our “pointless rituals that don’t mean anything.” Then a (ironically enough) Baptist friend of mine asked me if I was going to wednesday worship (of course I said no) which she replied with a “oh…your Catholic” as if it was a dirty word. Followed by a very nice “we don’t like your kind.”
Idk how it is for other Catholics who try to talk about the Church but the majority of the people I bring it up to give me the “please stop talking” stare. But of course, its perfectly fine for them to bring up their pastors .

 

[Disciple96]

I am currently an unhappy member of the “Church of Christ” who has been considering Catholicism and some of what you say is true, and other parts differ greatly from my experience. I was raised in the “Church of Christ” and attended their schools (including a “Church of Christ” college in Alabama). I feel the need to clarify some things…

I grew up next door to a family who were CoC. I don’t have any idea which group there were in. I do know that my family was Methodist then (and still is, I’m the only Catholic, my sister is the only Episcopalian and married to a former Presbyterian and now as far as I know they’re both of no affiliation whatsoever, sigh). The kids were my best friends and we were very limited in what we could all do together. But we still managed to have loads of fun and I still remember them warmly.

I’m glad you’re looking into the Church. I’ve got some pages of resources at my blog. You might find something helpful there and this site is filled with helpful stuff. Someone already mentioned the Coming Home Network, which is listed on my pages too. Marcus Grodi runs that and it’s wonderful. His show on EWTN is The Journey Home, a different show every week wherein a convert or revert tells his story, mostly but not exclusively former Protestant ministers. You can download past shows going back several years. You’d probably find something there that you’d enjoy.

 

[jatkins29]

It sounds like Protestents are concerned with the quantity of parishoners while Catholics are concerned with the quality of parishoners.

I grew up in the south and was raised in the Southern Baptist church. I can guarantee you they were very concerned about quantity. So much that they set goals each week for how many they wanted to attend. Not saying it was a bad thing but they went to extremes to get people in the pews.

 

[Jason_1977]

When I asked a priest how come we weren’t advertising our campus chapel while the Protestants were doing some heavy marketing, he said something to the like of that the Catholic chapel’s main duty was to serve the Catholics who needed the Sacraments while the Protestants were trying to prosletyze and attract people to their services.

Being part of a Protestant organization for a short while, I did notice that their focus was more on attracting new members as they believe that people had to be “saved.”

The Catholic parishes I’ve been a part of focus on serving the needs of already-existing Catholics and serving the poor, regardless of religion. People who sign up for RCIA, do so out of true desire, not because they were tricked into with with some fun social activity meant to attract them.

BINGO!!!

I’ve been living in Charleston, SC for about 3 years, and the hatred embedded in some of these people is simply astonishing. I will never understand the wires that needed crossing to create such hatred. I DO kind of like the fact that the RCC doesnt do too much advertising. I like how it’s a church of the willing as opposed to the church of the impressionable.

 

[MercyMia]

BMCD - My husband is on his way to becoming Catholic after growing up church of Christ… it can be a very frustrating church depending on the congregation…also the complete denial of history and they way they skate around certain words or phrases is kind of difficult. The church of Christ is sort of a culture unto itself. My husband was expected to go to Harding to find a wife…but you can see how that worked out
Your experience sounds pretty progerssive, which is great! Maybe you had an okay experience there…my husband considers it a cult and saw lots of manipulation. If you look online there is an ex-churchofchrist message board that is really informative.

 

[Jason_1977]

I have said time and again that it was clannish and cult like & THAT was what creeped me out the most about it.

 

[jwashu]

BINGO!!!

I’ve been living in Charleston, SC for about 3 years, and the hatred embedded in some of these people is simply astonishing. I will never understand the wires that needed crossing to create such hatred. I DO kind of like the fact that the RCC doesnt do too much advertising. I like how it’s a church of the willing as opposed to the church of the impressionable.

I don’t think anyone has said why though… 2 reasons depending on who is answering.

For the average person and most ministers they are truly sold on OSAS and believe the more people they can get in the door to say that quick salvation prayer, the more people they can get to Heaven. Of course we believe this is a misunderstanding of what Christ was talking about in discipleship but many of those people would also tend to say if someone didn’t life like a Christian after saying that prayer… that didn’t real mean it… so hopefully you can keep them there and at another altar call (ONE MORE STANZA!) hopefully they will come forward and mean it this time… Of course we know they probably did mean it but fell out of grace and just need to make a true act of contirition which I believe many do when they walk down that isle.

Then yet again… there are those who want more in the pews for personal and financial reasons. Protestants are REALLY big on tithing 10% at least and in some churches if you can’t pay… you aren’t very welcome because you obviously aren’t “supporting the Lord” or sinning if you aren’t well off financially… Often these are ministers and others who are paid by the Church and this is how they get a raise OR it’s lay people who are so bent on expansion (have you SEEN some of these mega churches?) that their ideas to get more people in to “save” them gets a little twisted.

In the South you have to remember that most of the population is rural so there weren’t many of the larger denominations initially, they had a lot of tent rallys in the 1800s and most of the ministers were self educated… and they were self educated with the Scofield Reference edition of the KJV. For those who don’t know Scofield was one of the very few followers of John Nelson Darby in the 1800s. After Darby had a bad fall from a horse he started thinking that Christians had all been interpreting the Bible wrong for the past 1800 years. He and some of his “brethren”, but primarily Darby, developed a new way to look at the scriptures call dispensationalism.

Most Protestants thought he was kind of wacked… however Scofield didn’t and he wrote the first “reference” Bible… and all of those “references” supported Darby’s new interpretation. MANY long held Christian beliefs were changed, even Protestant beliefs… this is where we get the Rapture, the idea that Israel had to be a nation again to bring about the second coming, the 7 year tribulation etc…

So all these uneducated ministers in the South had but ONE way to learn… Scofield’s Bible. Thus from the middle of the 1800s to the middle of the 1900s Christian Fundamentalism took off in the United States. Many of these people now call themselves Evangelicals but the thoughts are the same… it’s our way or the highway. Nevermind that no one believed like that, and therefore were probably bound for hell, for almost 1900 years, nevermind that if you hold to a dispensationalist interpretation the Bible seems to contradict itself (which we know can’t happen) often. That didn’t matter, they based their teachings on the original protestan belief that if you truly believed God would tell you what the Bible taught. This was then taught to their congregations… this also is why now we have probably 3000 protestant denominations and over 30,000 if you count the “Bible Churches”.

While they often disagree with one another they usually have a few things in common. Like any other fundamentalist group you are with them or against them. Either you believe pretty much exactly like they do or you are wrong. Growing up in a Souther Baptist Church there was constant Anti-Catholic teachings and many “questions” as to whether the Methodist, and Presbyterian were “saved” as well.

This is why the South seems hostile to Catholicism, they believe they Catholic are wrong and bound for hell. Since many will believe whatever they are told they often fall into misinformation about Communion of Saints (we are all Mary worshippers), Real Presence etc… some like Jack Chick take this to another level entirely but you get my drift.

Final example here… in College I wasn’t really addending Church anywhere and a friends dad asked me if I would take her to Mass each week. As I had worked on a Catholic Interdominational retreat called SEARCH I thought that would be great. That Christmas at my parents Church Christmas party (Baptist) everyone asking where I was going to Church and noting all the different fundie places. My just said that I was going to Church each week and she was happy (she probably wasn’t but thats another post)… While I had become Presbyterian a year or so earlier most figured I would come back from those heathen Reformed believers… anyway after a lot of pressure finally my mom said, I believe he is going to St. Joseph’s… at which time the 50 or so people went completely quiet until about 20 seconds later one of the women said “but that’s a Catholic Church, and they are going to Hell” (quote). Needless to say mom defened me and pointed out I had argued theology with some of these people for years (even though I was a teenager) and that I could make my own decisions… yet the understanding was there…

Joe

 

[Jason_1977]

Well, I’m not sure why, I’m not Baptist, & I dont usually wait around to find out why, LOL

 

[pipper]

BMCD - My husband is on his way to becoming Catholic after growing up church of Christ… it can be a very frustrating church depending on the congregation…also the complete denial of history and they way they skate around certain words or phrases is kind of difficult. The church of Christ is sort of a culture unto itself. My husband was expected to go to Harding to find a wife…but you can see how that worked out
Your experience sounds pretty progerssive, which is great! Maybe you had an okay experience there…my husband considers it a cult and saw lots of manipulation. If you look online there is an ex-churchofchrist message board that is really informative.

Mercymia. The ex “church of Christ” board also has a related board called church of Christ to Catholic. Your husband may find that usefull, since it is speciffically geared to his (and my) own situation.

The ex church of Christ support board while it does have a few Catholics on it is mostly confined to campbellites who leave the cofc but don’t go too far mostly joining other fundamentalist churches like Southern Baptists.

And I agree with your husband the traditional conservative (in cofc terms conservative) is really a deceptive manipulative cult that flat out tells untruths about our Holy Catholic church.

They say we “worship idols” while they are the true idol worshippers, worshipping a book instead of God.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I just spent a week in Nashville, TN for a conference. There is no Catholic church in downtown Nashville. On the other hand, there is no Protestant church in the French Quarter of New Orleans. The Episcopalians are on the outskirts but that is as close as you get. From Pensacola over to Beaumont, Texas along the Gulf Coast we are either a majority or a very significant minority.

I grew up in a very Catholic New Orleans. I did not encounter any kind of hostility until I graduated from LSU for grad school and started my work career. Jimmy Swaggert was in his hay day before his fall and Jack Chick tracts abounded in my office. They promptly went into the trash. I’m fairly knowledgeable about my faith but in the late 80s the number of people flocking to Jimmy Swaggert in my office caused me to go out and buy Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism which I read and used to pretty good advantage.

Then we moved to our new home in the 90s - a community east of Baton Rouge which does not have a Catholic church. We were out in the country until our new neighbors built a house across the lane from us. He is the pastor of a big non-denominational church in our little town. To make a long story short, we had to stop our kids from playing with his kids. Votive candles (unblessed) make very good sources of light when the power goes off (which is frequently). OK, so they have decals of St. Michael, the BVM, St. Jude, St. Joseph, etc. (In my best Monty Python accent), my neighbor declared from the pulpit of his church that we were witches! My wife teaches at a local state university and was informed of this observation by students who attend the church.

The bottom line is that they simply do not know what we believe. When my wife told me that we were declared witches, I popped out laughing. We have bikers, drug addicts (of all sorts), chronically poor people all around and my neighbor feels it is his bounded duty to travel to Lithuania and Estonia every year for a mission.

I am happy to say that Holy Mother Church just bought over a hundred acres just to the northeast of me and plans are in the work to start a new parish.

 

[Margaret33]

Since moving to SC from north of the Mason-Dixon line 10 yrs ago, all I can assume is that the hostility results from lack of knowledge about what Catholicism is. I’ve had several people tell me they were ‘Christian’ after finding out I was catholic… somehow not realizing that Catholics are christian. Without stereotyping everyone as a whole, I will say there does seem to be a lack of interest in accepting ‘outsiders’ of any kind in certain areas of the south. And Catholics, just like northerners, are outsiders… (just my opinion).

 

[Jason_1977]

Mercymia. The ex “church of Christ” board also has a related board called church of Christ to Catholic. Your husband may find that usefull, since it is speciffically geared to his (and my) own situation.

The ex church of Christ support board while it does have a few Catholics on it is mostly confined to campbellites who leave the cofc but don’t go too far mostly joining other fundamentalist churches like Southern Baptists.

And I agree with your husband the traditional conservative (in cofc terms conservative) is really a deceptive manipulative cult that flat out tells untruths about our Holy Catholic church.

They say we “worship idols” while they are the true idol worshippers, worshipping a book instead of God.

I love that whole idolatry bit. We have statues. Images of people in scripture…to serve as reminders…to help us get closer to God…are they necessary?..of course not…but we have them…I wonder if they have printed posters of jesus or T-shirts with pictures…what’s the difference…a statue of Jesus or Mary…it’s a reminder…nothing more…a piggy bank…that’s an idol…(LOL)