Why is the Trinity concept important and vital

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carlos19

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in other words what are the implications to the Church or believers in NOT believing in the trinity?

a little background. My wife and I had dinner with a neighbor couple. We knew they were staunch pentecostals but we never really discussed their theology too much. This is a couple that is thoroughly committed to God. Anyway, our conversation led us to their belief system and it appears that they go to United Pentecostal Church and they do not believe in the trinity.

I was a bit taken aback that a pentecostal group would be this deviant from basic orthodoxy.

it got me to research the heresy of Sebellianism but the web pages that I looked at failed to discuss the implications of the heresy. I realized that I myself could not explain the importance of the trinity as it relates to the incarnation and ultimately salvation.
Can anyone point me to the proper resources.
 
The implications are literally everything if you deny the Trinity, because that entails worshiping and believing in another god (which is also necessarily a false god).

One’s view of God ultimately impacts how everything from salvation to daily living takes place. To say a Divine Person took on human nature is a hugely (and infinitely) different thing than to say than that Jesus was simply a human.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
The implications are literally everything if you deny the Trinity, because that entails worshiping and believing in another god (which is also necessarily a false god).

One’s view of God ultimately impacts how everything from salvation to daily living takes place. To say a Divine Person took on human nature is a hugely (and infinitely) different thing than to say than that Jesus was simply a human.
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That’s probably going a bit too far. They aren’t worshiping a false god. They’re still worshiping the same god we are (after all, there is only one God available to worship); they just don’t understand Him.

Of course, it’s a pretty big misunderstanding. Denying Jesus’ divinity has profound doctrinal implications, after all: Scripture tells us that part of what set Jesus apart was the fact that He taught with authority (that is, He gave us His own commands, which stood of their own weight) and not like the scribes (who could only teach what they had been given from above). To understand Jesus as not divine, you necessarily have to ignore parts of the New Testament (“Whoever has seen me has seen the Father,” anyone?). And Jesus made it pretty clear who He is: “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.”

I don’t understand how they justify their readings of Scripture. Part of it is as simple as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, of course: define the problem out of existence (the JWs mistranslate the text; unitarians et al. simply claim that the parts of the text they don’t like are suspect and probably not really part of the text). But there’s no justification for their position, either historically, textually, or theologically.

The most you can really hope for is to have honest discussions with them at appropriate times and know the answers to the questions they likely will have for you. Perhaps, over time, your own questions to them will help them to see the light.
 
One reason is that if the Master reveals Himself to you as one God in three persons, then to deny that is to deny God’s will for you to believe that about Him. Also, the Trinity reveals the “love” God has for His creatures, for in sending Himself as a creature, He constrained the infiniteness of divinity into the temporal bounds of humanity. Then He let Himself be tortured and murdered at the hands of His own creatures. So that is a testament to love. Also, in recognizing the Spirit as divine, we have trust in lots of other things revealed by the Spirit, such as the Scriptures, Tradition, and even the movements of our hearts.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
The implications are literally everything if you deny the Trinity, because that entails worshiping and believing in another god (which is also necessarily a false god).

One’s view of God ultimately impacts how everything from salvation to daily living takes place. To say a Divine Person took on human nature is a hugely (and infinitely) different thing than to say than that Jesus was simply a human.
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Do Pentecostals deny the divinity of Jesus? I was under the impression that Oneness Pentecostals believe ONLY in the divinity of Jesus rather than G-d the Father and the Holy Spirit. Also, I think there are different belief systems within Pentecostalism.
 
carlos19 said:
in other words what are the implications to the Church or believers in NOT believing in the trinity?

a little background. My wife and I had dinner with a neighbor couple. We knew they were staunch pentecostals but we never really discussed their theology too much. This is a couple that is thoroughly committed to God. Anyway, our conversation led us to their belief system and it appears that they go to United Pentecostal Church and they do not believe in the trinity.

I was a bit taken aback that a pentecostal group would be this deviant from basic orthodoxy.

it got me to research the heresy of Sebellianism but the web pages that I looked at failed to discuss the implications of the heresy. I realized that I myself could not explain the importance of the trinity as it relates to the incarnation and ultimately salvation.
Can anyone point me to the proper resources.
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Both believe Jesus is God. It is just different ways of explaining the mystery of how the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one. Mark 12;29 “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.”

The Trinity says the 3 persons are 3 that existed from forever.
A modalist would say they are the same (1) person that has always existed. First we knew him as the Father, then we knew him as the Son, and then we know him as the Holy Spirit.

So as far as I can tell it comes down to whether or not they are 3 eternal “persons” or whether or not it is 1 eternal person who manifested to us in 3 ways.

Modalism tries to be logically consistent with “the Lord is one.” And the trinity tries to be logically consistent with the bible and the separate “persons” in the bible.

Personally, I think all Christians get carried away with the “Heretic” thing and I don’t think I will ever understand how everyone Protestant and Catholic and Orthodox wants to denounce everyone else as a heretic (unsaved) when we are ALL Christians and believe in Jesus.🤷

The “heretic” thing gets really old after a while.
 
Pentecostal don’t believe in the Trinity, I am shocked about this. I agree I thought it was the basic teaching for all Christians.
 
Why is the trinity crucial? Well let’s look at what we believe. We believe that Jesus is God, The Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God… but that Jesus is not the Father, the Holy Spirit is not the Father, and the Holy Spirit is not Jesus. Now there are implications if this is not true.
  1. If Jesus is God and the Father is God and they are not one… then they are not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (at least one of them is not.)
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
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Dueteronomy 6:4

Necessarily if Jesus is not the same God as the Father… then it’s no longer monotheism and is against the Old Testament.
  1. If Jesus is not God at all, but a prophet… then his sacrifice on the cross does not fulfill the covenant for us, but only for him. It would be the same as any other prophet dying as a martyr (and most of them did.)
  2. To deny Jesus divinity requires ignoring most of the New Testament. A great deal of Paul’s writings deal specifically with Jesus being God. Particularly Galatians, Philippians, Colossians, and Hebrews. So if Jesus is not God we have to take any book of the New Testament (and that would require almost all of them) and get rid of them as Scripture.
As you see if the doctrine of the trinity isn’t true… then either the New Testament is a lie, we are worshiping Jesus as a god instead of the true God, and/or the old covenant is still in effect.
 
My mother-in-law is a “non-denominational Christian”. She has been having an email battle back and forth about the Trinity with Joyce Meyer (Protestant evangelist). My MIL completely denies the Trinity. One of her arguing points: “How could God sit at His own right hand. Doesn’t make any sense…”
Um, I’m pretty sure God can do whatever He wants. Just sayin…
So, yes, there are some Christians who deny it.
 
The day the trinity isn’t true that day i will become a jew. What is the point of salvation if anyman could atone and mediate for d whole human race that mean the earlier prophet could do it, how will the covenant look like: God sends a man preserve him from sin and the man dies and atone 4 the sins of the whole world. There is a big problem according 2 my theology, this man can’t save our race 'cos he ‘sacrife’ will be very finite and it’ll be like the sacrife of bulls and rams this sacrife can’t save me so, why will i be a xtian. Since d holyspirit is not a person he can’t do things he can’t santify or advocate 4 me then i’ll have 2 become a jew.
Thank God the above is a lie so i’m still a xtian.
 
105lynne said:
My mother-in-law is a “non-denominational Christian”. She has been having an email battle back and forth about the Trinity with Joyce Meyer (Protestant evangelist). My MIL completely denies the Trinity. One of her arguing points: “How could God sit at His own right hand. Doesn’t make any sense…”
Um, I’m pretty sure God can do whatever He wants. Just sayin…
So, yes, there are some Christians who deny it.
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Maybe she never had it explained well enough to her., well obviously. Poor Joyce Meyers :), but its hard to change someones thinking after many years, and to change their beliefs.
Who does she think Jesus is then? a prophet?
 
thanks everyone for the comments. I am still trying to understand the implications of NOT believing in the trinity. This is an ancient heresy (oneness), I know that much.

The oneness belief seems to be in a nutshell that there is one God, and he has 2 other manifestations.

The concept of the trinity is that their is one God but he reveals himself in three distinct persons.

Again what is the implications of God NOT being a triune being?
 
Ubenedictus said:
The day the trinity isn’t true that day i will become a jew. What is the point of salvation if anyman could atone and mediate for d whole human race that mean the earlier prophet could do it, how will the covenant look like: God sends a man preserve him from sin and the man dies and atone 4 the sins of the whole world. There is a big problem according 2 my theology, this man can’t save our race 'cos he ‘sacrife’ will be very finite and it’ll be like the sacrife of bulls and rams this sacrife can’t save me so, why will i be a xtian. Since d holyspirit is not a person he can’t do things he can’t santify or advocate 4 me then i’ll have 2 become a jew.
Thank God the above is a lie so i’m still a xtian.
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Judaism does not believe that any person, prophet or otherwise, can mediate our salvation or vicariously atone for others. Rather, it believes that atonement for sins is an individual matter. The ritual of animal sacrifice was always accompanied by prayer, and the latter rather than the former is regarded as the principal means to atonement together with acts of charity. Furthermore, salvation from sin is not really a theme in Judaism (the term redemption, however, is used), according to which there is no need for a Savior since we are not born in original sin to begin with.
 
The Trinity is important because it is reality. The trinity is what is and nothing else except that the Holy trinity allows it to be.
 
Denying the Truth always has consequences. Your essentially asking why is Truth important or why is being Catholic important.
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
New International Version (NIV)
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
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carlos19 said:
thanks everyone for the comments. I am still trying to understand the implications of NOT believing in the trinity. This is an ancient heresy (oneness), I know that much.

The oneness belief seems to be in a nutshell that there is one God, and he has 2 other manifestations.

The concept of the trinity is that their is one God but he reveals himself in three distinct persons.

Again what is the implications of God NOT being a triune being?
Click to expand...
If God were not a Trinity as taught by the Church, then . . . .

(A) There are three different gods – God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit – and all that stuff we teach about monotheism would be inaccurate;

OR​
(B) The other two people – Son and Spirit – are not god – meaning that Jesus was merely human. And, since we have no basis for believing that the sacrifice of a mere human would be enough to save the human race, our entire salvation theology would then become wrong.​
 
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