Why is the USCCB so big on women working?

[Daralharb]

I can’t even read all of the posts on this thread because they are infuriating. Women are multi-talented and have and are making great contributions to the workforce. Its insulting to say that women should not work outside of the home implying that their contributions are unneccessary. Its equaly insulting to belittle stay at home moms. I certainly don’t have it all figured out but some posters arrogantly think they do.

People love to knock feminism. Feminism is the belief that men and women are equal (wow what a crazy demonic idea). Feminism gave women the right to vote and equal pay for equal work. It brought us radical ideas like women are as smart as men and you can’t rape your wife.

The sexual revoloution on the other hand seems to be the root of many of the problems that people are blaming on feminism. And the blame for that can be equally spread around.

So basically, I, a man, and others, men, and women, can read these posts and come up with retorts which at least address the posts… and you can’t because it stirs up “feelings”. See my post about Fromm’s idea of how to irrationalize and emotionalize society via feminization and the down-talking of masculinity.

Feminism is the idea that men and women are equal? No it’s not. If that was the case, feminists wouldn’t push such insane definitions of rape like “if you feel regret the day later, it’s rape” and “if you were drunk, and he was drunk, it was rape”… are men somehow impervious to the effects of alcohol? Does a drunk woman get off of DUI charges since she couldn’t consent to driving anyway?

If women and men are equal, I’m the Duke of Earl. We are complimentary, not “equal”. We are only fulfilled IN each other through complimentary aspects, not equal aspects. Eve was created because Adam needed a mate. She wasn’t created so Eve would have a scrapbooking partner, nor so Adam would have a friend to burp and drink beer with. They were to become one flesh. ONLY in this relationship can men and women be equal by fulfilling and being fulfilled in that which they lack, and together can create that which they are. A woman without a husband has to take on male attributes if she is a mother. A man without a wife has to learn femininity in certain regards, if he is a father.

Women do not receive equal pay for equal work, still, except for minimum wage jobs in which the lowest common denominator is a hilarious way to look at things. Yay! We are able to be equal at the bottom!

The sexual revolution is inextricably linked to feminism and the fall of morality. Can’t have one without the other, or else you just have mass rape.

In the spirit of feminism, equality, and solidarity: Don’t hate me bro!

 

[Allegra]

I can’t even read all of the posts on this thread because they are infuriating. Women are multi-talented and have and are making great contributions to the workforce. Its insulting to say that women should not work outside of the home implying that their contributions are unneccessary. Its equaly insulting to belittle stay at home moms. I certainly don’t have it all figured out but some posters arrogantly think they do.

People love to knock feminism. Feminism is the belief that men and women are equal (wow what a crazy demonic idea). Feminism gave women the right to vote and equal pay for equal work. It brought us radical ideas like women are as smart as men and you can’t rape your wife.

The sexual revoloution on the other hand seems to be the root of many of the problems that people are blaming on feminism. And the blame for that can be equally spread around.

Feminism for you and me means that men and women are equal. Feminism for some people means that men are socially uneccessary or even a detriment to society. To alot of people, feminism and the sexual revolution go hand in hand.

 

[LisaA]

Historically speaking, that is not the case. The 50’s saw the rise of enough of a middle class that we could say “most woman didn’t work”. Even then, woman from lower socio-economic situation worked. If they lived in the country, they did farm work. If they lived in the city, they cleaned houses and worked on factory lines. Prior to that era, it was only the upper-middle class and wealthiest families that could afford for the mother not to work at all. Keep in mind that many families owned family businesses. I suppose you could argue that the woman in those cases weren’t getting into cars and driving away, but they weren’t in the house watching the children either.

Really? MARRIED WOMEN WITH CHILREN? I truly think this is not the case in the past. As I said, I’m from a family of working women, mostly nurses and teachers. But until my mom’s generation they all quit when they got married. In fact there was often a prohibition against married and certainly pregnant teachers and nurses until relatively recently in our history. Even the more modern professions such as flight attendant, married women and mothers were prohibited from maintaining employment.

In addition as you said many women worked on farms. And frankly so did the children. I’m also from a farming family and my grandmothers, great grandmothers etc worked on the farm but it was not behind the plow but in the garden, the kitchen and to some extent the dairy/henhouse. The children were raised by their two married parents who were well within shouting distance not twenty miles away.

I’ve worked with many many working mothers and finding good childcare is difficult. Regardless of whether the daycare provider keeps the children safe, there is simply no way a daycare provider cares about your child and his/her wellbeing in the same way you do. Obviously for some mothers working is necessary, particularly in this economy. But what I dispute is the complete about face regarding working women vis a vis stay at home moms. The former are glorified even if their ‘career’ is nothing particularly inspiring while the latter are demeaned as if raising responsible citizens were not among the most noble of vocations.

In all fairness I really detect this anti-homemaker attitude in your posts. I am all for doing what is right for one’s family and if work is necessary, so be it. But if possible I think the best environment for children is to be raised by a team of parents who work together to produce a stable (emotionally, financially) home.

Lisa

 

[Debora123]

So basically, I, a man, and others, men, and women, can read these posts and come up with retorts which at least address the posts… and you can’t because it stirs up “feelings”. See my post about Fromm’s idea of how to irrationalize and emotionalize society via feminization and the down-talking of masculinity.

Feminism is the idea that men and women are equal? No it’s not. If that was the case, feminists wouldn’t push such insane definitions of rape like “if you feel regret the day later, it’s rape” and “if you were drunk, and he was drunk, it was rape”… are men somehow impervious to the effects of alcohol? Does a drunk woman get off of DUI charges since she couldn’t consent to driving anyway?

If women and men are equal, I’m the Duke of Earl. We are complimentary, not “equal”. We are only fulfilled IN each other through complimentary aspects, not equal aspects. Eve was created because Adam needed a mate. She wasn’t created so Eve would have a scrapbooking partner, nor so Adam would have a friend to burp and drink beer with. They were to become one flesh. ONLY in this relationship can men and women be equal by fulfilling and being fulfilled in that which they lack, and together can create that which they are. A woman without a husband has to take on male attributes if she is a mother. A man without a wife has to learn femininity in certain regards, if he is a father.

Women do not receive equal pay for equal work, still, except for minimum wage jobs in which the lowest common denominator is a hilarious way to look at things. Yay! We are able to be equal at the bottom!

The sexual revolution is inextricably linked to feminism and the fall of morality. Can’t have one without the other, or else you just have mass rape.

In the spirit of feminism, equality, and solidarity: Don’t hate me bro!

You seem very angry.

You believe women should stay in the home and not pursue full time careers.

That’s perfectly fine that you feel that way.

But you have to have respect for others who disagree with you. And above all, don’t try to paint the picture that it’s wrong for women to work outside the home when the Church certainly doesn’t teach it.

 

[Allegra]

In all fairness I really detect this anti-homemaker attitude in your posts. I am all for doing what is right for one’s family and if work is necessary, so be it. But if possible I think the best environment for children is to be raised by a team of parents who work together to produce a stable (emotionally, financially) home.

Lisa

You would be incorrect. I find nothing morally wrong with taking advantage of the ability to stay home if it exists. I think we would all love to be able to stay home from work and play with our kids, with the exception of some individuals who find their jobs especially meaningful and rewarding. I just find it extremely unrealistic expectation for many families and I take offense to blaming the ills of society on those woman who have put on their big girl panties and managed to work hard to support their families as well as nurture them. I also find it extremely wrong when those who are able to get by on one income suggest that those who can’t afford to are not doing all they can to (as you put it) “produce a stable (emotionally and finacially) home”

 

[LisaA]

I can’t even read all of the posts on this thread because they are infuriating. Women are multi-talented and have and are making great contributions to the workforce. Its insulting to say that women should not work outside of the home implying that their contributions are unneccessary. Its equaly insulting to belittle stay at home moms. I certainly don’t have it all figured out but some posters arrogantly think they do.

People love to knock feminism. Feminism is the belief that men and women are equal (wow what a crazy demonic idea). Feminism gave women the right to vote and equal pay for equal work. It brought us radical ideas like women are as smart as men and you can’t rape your wife.

The sexual revoloution on the other hand seems to be the root of many of the problems that people are blaming on feminism. And the blame for that can be equally spread around.

Wow I think you’re reading into the posts a lot more than was intended. I think the only suggestion that women not work outside the home is when raising their children. Do you think it’s optimal that a family raise its own children or at least get them through the toddler years into school? Of do you think a daycare center, particularly government regulated is the best place for children to grow up?

You have an interesting definition of feminism—I think even the much maligned St Paul believed men and women were equal in being beloved sons and daughters of God. Equal in dignity and inherent rights does not mean interchangeable. IOW men are more than hairy deep voiced women and women are more than curvy soft men. Feminism wasn’t even a word when women got the right to vote and equal pay was never a matter of sex discrimination alone. There was a sad time in this country when wages could be determined by skin color. Thankfully we’ve grown beyond that too. Feminism is not the source of knowledge that men aren’t always smarter than women. Where did you get that idea? As to the rape of one’s wife…heavens! That really isn’t a serious issue is it?

FWIW feminism IS the source of the sexual revolution with ABC being its drug of choice. One could not risk promiscuous behavior with the spector of an unplanned pregnancy lurking in the background. Now women are ‘free’ as I said to run around like alley cats, kill their unplanned babies, to raise their children alone or with Uncle Sam as the father. How’s that working out?

Believe me I know where you are coming from because when I was younger I thought the same way. But now I believe we have indeed reaped a very bitter harvest in our quest to be ‘equal.’ The unintended consequences have struck again.

Lisa

 

[LucyLight]

So basically, I, a man, and others, men, and women, can read these posts and come up with retorts which at least address the posts… and you can’t because it stirs up “feelings”. See my post about Fromm’s idea of how to irrationalize and emotionalize society via feminization and the down-talking of masculinity.

Feminism is the idea that men and women are equal? No it’s not. If that was the case, feminists wouldn’t push such insane definitions of rape like “if you feel regret the day later, it’s rape” and “if you were drunk, and he was drunk, it was rape”… are men somehow impervious to the effects of alcohol? Does a drunk woman get off of DUI charges since she couldn’t consent to driving anyway?

If women and men are equal, I’m the Duke of Earl. We are complimentary, not “equal”. We are only fulfilled IN each other through complimentary aspects, not equal aspects. Eve was created because Adam needed a mate. She wasn’t created so Eve would have a scrapbooking partner, nor so Adam would have a friend to burp and drink beer with. They were to become one flesh. ONLY in this relationship can men and women be equal by fulfilling and being fulfilled in that which they lack, and together can create that which they are. A woman without a husband has to take on male attributes if she is a mother. A man without a wife has to learn femininity in certain regards, if he is a father.

Women do not receive equal pay for equal work, still, except for minimum wage jobs in which the lowest common denominator is a hilarious way to look at things. Yay! We are able to be equal at the bottom!

The sexual revolution is inextricably linked to feminism and the fall of morality. Can’t have one without the other, or else you just have mass rape.

In the spirit of feminism, equality, and solidarity: Don’t hate me bro!

Again, feminism is the idea that women are equal to men. Of course I don’t think that they are the same(one can give birth the other can’t). It means that they are equal in value. Women have always been treated as second class citizens. Interestingly, the Church has been at the forefront and ahead of its time in affirming womens equivalent value to men. However, America is a protestant nation founded by Puritans who held women in a lesser regard than men. The movement was an absolute neccessity for women to have equal rights. It started in the late 1800s way before the sexual revoloution of the 1960s.

Of course, people have taken a great good and twisted it to promote many of the evils that we have today. However, don’t knock the original movement bro!

I hope this makes sense. I’m exhausted from my long day of staying at home and watching my kids, cleaning, dinner…you get the point.

 

[LucyLight]

Wow I think you’re reading into the posts a lot more than was intended. I think the only suggestion that women not work outside the home is when raising their children. Do you think it’s optimal that a family raise its own children or at least get them through the toddler years into school? Of do you think a daycare center, particularly government regulated is the best place for children to grow up?

You have an interesting definition of feminism—I think even the much maligned St Paul believed men and women were equal in being beloved sons and daughters of God. Equal in dignity and inherent rights does not mean interchangeable. IOW men are more than hairy deep voiced women and women are more than curvy soft men. Feminism wasn’t even a word when women got the right to vote and equal pay was never a matter of sex discrimination alone. There was a sad time in this country when wages could be determined by skin color. Thankfully we’ve grown beyond that too. Feminism is not the source of knowledge that men aren’t always smarter than women. Where did you get that idea? As to the rape of one’s wife…heavens! That really isn’t a serious issue is it?

FWIW feminism IS the source of the sexual revolution with ABC being its drug of choice. One could not risk promiscuous behavior with the spector of an unplanned pregnancy lurking in the background. Now women are ‘free’ as I said to run around like alley cats, kill their unplanned babies, to raise their children alone or with Uncle Sam as the father. How’s that working out?

Believe me I know where you are coming from because when I was younger I thought the same way. But now I believe we have indeed reaped a very bitter harvest in our quest to be ‘equal.’ The unintended consequences have struck again.

Lisa

Calm down, I think you are reading into my post way too much. Look up the women’s suffrage movement it came way before the sexual revoloution.It promoted the idea that women are equal in value. Of course, we are not the same. I I can’t even respond to everything here. However, it has been a belief that a man couldn’t be charged with rape if the offense was against his wife. I also never promoted daycare.

 

[LisaA]

You would be incorrect. I find nothing morally wrong with taking advantage of the ability to stay home if it exists. I think we would all love to be able to stay home from work and play with our kids, with the exception of some individuals who find their jobs especially meaningful and rewarding. I just find it extremely unrealistic expectation for many families and I take offense to blaming the ills of society on those woman who have put on their big girl panties and managed to work hard to support their families as well as nurture them. I also find it extremely wrong when those who are able to get by on one income suggest that those who can’t afford to are not doing all they can to (as you put it) “produce a stable (emotionally and finacially) home”

It’s funny your post actually contradicts your statement. When you say women “stay home from work and play with their kids” it sounds as if they had a **duty **to work and stay at home moms just play all day long. That is an attitude that what at home moms do is silly and frivolous. I suspect many moms would beg to differ.

I neither honor nor demean working women per se. Nor do I necessarily honor or demean stay at home moms. Families need to make the decisions that work for them. However there is a less than subtle pressure on women these days to WORK regardless of whether this is essential for their families. It is 180 degrees reversed from the time I grew up with one of if not the ONLY working mom in my class and the subject of great pity as my mom couldn’t watch the school play and had no time to make cupcakes for Halloween. Neither attitude is healthy. I think if people have children, their first responsibility is to the children and hopefully any decisions are made with their well being in mind. Work? Don’t work? It should be discussed and decided not assumed either way.

Nor did I say that anything about getting along on one income being the only way to provide a stable home. You read way more into the statement than I put into it. I said people with children should do their best to create a stable home and be less worried about societal pressure for the woman to work or to have a few more goodies. I truly think that stay at home women are demeaned in this society and pressured to work whether they actually need to or not. I think raising children is thought of as unskilled labor and an educated woman who chooses to stay home is thought to be wasting her education. I don’t like that attitude any more than you like the attitude that working moms are defacto irresponsible.

As to the “ills of society” I place them on single mothers and deatbeat sperm donors, not responsible married women who are part of a family unit and make joint decisions as to what is best for their family. There are a LOT of working single mothers in our society and they are unfortunately the casualties of feminism, demeaning of marriage particularly among the low income demographic, and the attitude that women can ‘do it all.’ Remember the old saying a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle? So clever…NOT.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Calm down, I think you are reading into my post way too much. Look up the women’s suffrage movement it came way before the sexual revoloution.It promoted the idea that women are equal in value. Of course, we are not the same. I I can’t even respond to everything here. However, it has been a belief that a man couldn’t be charged with rape if the offense was against his wife. I also never promoted daycare.

Suffrage was a right to vote, and to some extent own property outright rather than as extension of their husband. The reference was equal RIGHTS not equal or equivalent in humanity. I certainly have no problem with women voting or owning property! OTOH women’s suffrage did not result in the kind of cultural destruction that the sexual revolution created.

I still don’t think you can call the two movements equal in creating a positive result for society. Suffrage extended the rights of women, freed them to have an impact on society through elections and by running for public office. These are GOOD things. The sexual revolution, rather than freeing women has been a really destructive force for women, men and more importantly children.

Lisa

 

[LucyLight]

It’s funny your post actually contradicts your statement. When you say women “stay home from work and play with their kids” it sounds as if they had a **duty **to work and stay at home moms just play all day long. That is an attitude that what at home moms do is silly and frivolous. I suspect many moms would beg to differ.

I neither honor nor demean working women per se. Nor do I necessarily honor or demean stay at home moms. Families need to make the decisions that work for them. However there is a less than subtle pressure on women these days to WORK regardless of whether this is essential for their families. It is 180 degrees reversed from the time I grew up with one of if not the ONLY working mom in my class and the subject of great pity as my mom couldn’t watch the school play and had no time to make cupcakes for Halloween. Neither attitude is healthy. I think if people have children, their first responsibility is to the children and hopefully any decisions are made with their well being in mind. Work? Don’t work? It should be discussed and decided not assumed either way.

Nor did I say that anything about getting along on one income being the only way to provide a stable home. You read way more into the statement than I put into it. I said people with children should do their best to create a stable home and be less worried about societal pressure for the woman to work or to have a few more goodies. I truly think that stay at home women are demeaned in this society and pressured to work whether they actually need to or not. I think raising children is thought of as unskilled labor and an educated woman who chooses to stay home is thought to be wasting her education. I don’t like that attitude any more than you like the attitude that working moms are defacto irresponsible.

As to the “ills of society” I place them on single mothers and deatbeat sperm donors, not responsible married women who are part of a family unit and make joint decisions as to what is best for their family. There are a LOT of working single mothers in our society and they are unfortunately the casualties of feminism, demeaning of marriage particularly among the low income demographic, and the attitude that women can ‘do it all.’ Remember the old saying a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle? So clever…NOT.

Lisa

I don’t like this attitude either. As a stay at home mom, I certainly don’t play all day with my kids. Although, I probably should play with them a little more . I also feel looked down upon for the sacrafices I make for my family. However, I wouldn’t assume that Allegra thinks less of stay at home moms. It was my assumption that she is merely responding to the ridiculous accusations being thrown at working moms. Btw, the quote “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” was said by one evil woman, Gloria Steinman. Its a mistake to characterize the whole women’s lib movement by one woman. Instead look to Susan B. Anthony and what she fought for.

 

[Allegra]

It’s funny your post actually contradicts your statement. When you say women “stay home from work and play with their kids” it sounds as if they had a **duty **to work and stay at home moms just play all day long. That is an attitude that what at home moms do is silly and frivolous. I suspect many moms would beg to differ.

I neither honor nor demean working women per se. Nor do I necessarily honor or demean stay at home moms. Families need to make the decisions that work for them. However there is a less than subtle pressure on women these days to WORK regardless of whether this is essential for their families. It is 180 degrees reversed from the time I grew up with one of if not the ONLY working mom in my class and the subject of great pity as my mom couldn’t watch the school play and had no time to make cupcakes for Halloween. Neither attitude is healthy. I think if people have children, their first responsibility is to the children and hopefully any decisions are made with their well being in mind. Work? Don’t work? It should be discussed and decided not assumed either way.

Nor did I say that anything about getting along on one income being the only way to provide a stable home. You read way more into the statement than I put into it. I said people with children should do their best to create a stable home and be less worried about societal pressure for the woman to work or to have a few more goodies. I truly think that stay at home women are demeaned in this society and pressured to work whether they actually need to or not. I think raising children is thought of as unskilled labor and an educated woman who chooses to stay home is thought to be wasting her education. I don’t like that attitude any more than you like the attitude that working moms are defacto irresponsible.

As to the “ills of society” I place them on single mothers and deatbeat sperm donors, not responsible married women who are part of a family unit and make joint decisions as to what is best for their family. There are a LOT of working single mothers in our society and they are unfortunately the casualties of feminism, demeaning of marriage particularly among the low income demographic, and the attitude that women can ‘do it all.’ Remember the old saying a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle? So clever…NOT.

Lisa

I didn’t read into your post at all. I quoted it directly. Here it is again.

“I am all for doing what is right for one’s family and if work is necessary, so be it. But if possible I think the best environment for children is to be raised by a team of parents who work together to produce a stable (emotionally, financially) home.”

Your second sentence begins with a “but if possible” which suggests the the second statement is exclusive from the first. That’s why I thought you were trying to say that a mother who works is not part of a team of parents who work together to produce a stable home. I’m very happy to hear that isn’t your opinion at all.

If you feel that spending time playing with kids is silly and frivilous, then what is the benefit of staying home in the first place that makes it worth the hardships most families would face if they did it? I thought the great benefit of staying home was having more time with the kids. It can’t be more time to do the housework. That’s going to get done either way unless you’re really well-to-do and can hire a domestic. I suppose one would have more time to persue their hobbies, but that’s kind of mean to your spouse to have him in the trenches all day while you scrapbook. Therefore, I conclude that the only benefit to staying at home that is worth the hardships that come with it is the extra time to spend with your children. And what do children do when they aren’t at school? They play. So, how is that demeaning exactly? I have a feeling your are going to find demeaningness in pretty much anything I say. I suppose you don’t like stew either.

I would agree with you that there is a pressure on women today to learn a professional trade or career. As my grandmother always said, “Men die. Get your masters.” In a world where over half of marriages end in divorce, it is downright irresponsible not to encourage one’s daughters to be prepared to support their family. However, once they are married and the first little one comes along, the only real pressure over their head is poverty and perhaps a husband who isn’t supportive of the idea. (One would hope that a woman who had her heart set on not working would have the good sense to marry someone who can afford her that lifestyle and discuss this plan prior to matrimony but, alas, that isn’t always the case.)

I’m glad you do not place all the ills of society on working mothers, however, I was referring to another poster who said as much in a previous post. I would caution you, however, that the ills of society are not to be singularly placed on single mothers (who might be in that situation for any number of reasons, some of which they have little or no control over.) or illegitimate fathers. (Not that there’s much of an excuse for them.) There are many shoddy parents from all over the spectrum of never-married, married, remarried, etc as well as from every socio-economic level. There are also alot of reformed single mothers who do an amazing job with precious little, and in a world where a woman can just as easily walk into a clinic and have her baby wiped off the face of the earth as if they never existed, this is to be admired.

 

[Daralharb]

You seem very angry.

You believe women should stay in the home and not pursue full time careers.

That’s perfectly fine that you feel that way.

But you have to have respect for others who disagree with you. And above all, don’t try to paint the picture that it’s wrong for women to work outside the home when the Church certainly doesn’t teach it.

Angry? That my entire country is about to fail and this is partially why? yes. About women? Nah. I can turn the tables and start showing how men have had an equal hand in this too.

I’m not addressing Church teaching, I’ve made that perfectly clear, nor does the Church teach on this anyway. I’m talking about a step back and a look at historical trends and how this is partially to blame.

I don’t have to respect the destruction of the traditional family, not by a long shot, and not when I have said nothing that isn’t true.

If I didn’t respect the other people disagreeing with me, I’d not even be talking about this.

I don’t talk with people for whom I don’t feel respect, I just ignore them.

Now, instead of focusing on me… cus I’m a man, and hey, your opinion matters too lady, what do you think has led to the decline of the family and how has the introduction en masse of women in the workforce affected the American paradigm?

 

[LucyLight]

Suffrage was a right to vote, and to some extent own property outright rather than as extension of their husband. The reference was equal RIGHTS not equal or equivalent in humanity. I certainly have no problem with women voting or owning property! OTOH women’s suffrage did not result in the kind of cultural destruction that the sexual revolution created.

I still don’t think you can call the two movements equal in creating a positive result for society. Suffrage extended the rights of women, freed them to have an impact on society through elections and by running for public office. These are GOOD things. The sexual revolution, rather than freeing women has been a really destructive force for women, men and more importantly children.

Lisa

I’m still confused (its probably just me). It sounds like we are in agreement that there are too seperate movements one good and one bad. Women right’s originated from the idea that women deserve equal rights because they are equal in value. The other movement, the sexual revolution is the cause of the contraception mentality, the break down of the family and abortion. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Allegra]

I’m still confused (its probably just me). It sounds like we are in agreement that there are too seperate movements one good and one bad. Women right’s originated from the idea that women deserve equal rights because they are equal in value. The other movement, the sexual revolution is the cause of the contraception mentality, the break down of the family and abortion. Correct me if I’m wrong.

The confusion is caused by the fact that the second movement often borrows the name of the first. Sort of the way people like to call abortion “women’s health” even though it isn’t. Whenever I read the term “women’s health” in the paper I flinch because I know they are talking about contraception and killing children. That doesn’t mean, of course, that I’m against mammograms and pap smears.

 

[Allegra]

Angry? That my entire country is about to fail and this is partially why? yes. About women? Nah. I can turn the tables and start showing how men have had an equal hand in this too.

I’m not addressing Church teaching, I’ve made that perfectly clear, nor does the Church teach on this anyway. I’m talking about a step back and a look at historical trends and how this is partially to blame.

I don’t have to respect the destruction of the traditional family, not by a long shot, and not when I have said nothing that isn’t true.

If I didn’t respect the other people disagreeing with me, I’d not even be talking about this.

I don’t talk with people for whom I don’t feel respect, I just ignore them.

Now, instead of focusing on me… cus I’m a man, and hey, your opinion matters too lady, what do you think has led to the decline of the family and how has the introduction en masse of women in the workforce affected the American paradigm?

About to fail? I think it’s failing as we speak.

 

[FaithBuild18]

I’m still confused (its probably just me). It sounds like we are in agreement that there are too seperate movements one good and one bad. Women right’s originated from the idea that women deserve equal rights because they are equal in value. The other movement, the sexual revolution is the cause of the contraception mentality, the break down of the family and abortion. Correct me if I’m wrong.

You can’t separate women’s lib and the sexual revolution in the manner which you try. You are right in that men and women are equal in value, but to suggest that they’re equal in everything else is ignorant to history, science, and scripture, which clearly assigns separate distinct roles to fathers and mothers.

Your view of feminism, and anyone who shares this view, contradicts the light of history and scripture. Suffrage on the other hand, is a great thing - because men and women are equal in value (dignitity) and thus women should never be denied a legal right that men have. But feminism from the get go has sewn the seeds that we see today. Women aren’t entitled to contraceptives because of the sexual revolution glorifying sex, rather they are entitled to contraceptives because it is empowering for women. Feminism argues that women have a fundamental right to chose their own health over the health of their child. The sexual revolution does not care to make such an argument. This is purely a result of feminism exploding before our very eyes.

The modern perception of feminism, yours included, is entirely fallacious. Feminism, from a purely semantic point of view, is embracing feminine qualities. These qualities have dignified women for the past several thousand years up until the last hundred, and should absolutely be celebrated and cherished. Women are great because they are unique. And men are great because they are unique. Modern day feminism on the other hand, does exactly what you suggest, and tries to equate women with men. It is not feminism, rather it is masculinity applied to women. If anything it is anti-feminism. Since the middle of the 20th century women have been becoming less like women and more like men, in everything from clothing to occupation.

 

[Daralharb]

About to fail? I think it’s failing as we speak.

Well, I’d like to maintain some hope that us men and women can work together with our complimentary traits and intellect which is totally individual to affect a moral solution (though I secretly agree it’s failing as we speak! *shhhh)

Here are some interesting articles/google book docs:

isreview.org/issues/38/women_family.shtml

digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/familyhistory.cfm

books.google.com/books?id=UwUfAIgnuScC&pg=PA625&lpg=PA625&dq=women+in+the+workforce+decline+in+traditional+family&source=bl&ots=jwZq29WK6P&sig=m8MdrDGrtF3WhhUBqm7SEvCV4Nk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kwNDT8fIL4_yggfWotn_Bw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=women%20in%20the%20workforce%20decline%20in%20traditional%20family&f=false

mtio.com/articles/aissar85.htm

books.google.com/books?id=Xi54b4ncO1kC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=women+in+the+workforce+decline+in+traditional+family&source=bl&ots=_yTCfcTv1u&sig=I6AYIMn2yxl05Zib-hldrWTbS8s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kwNDT8fIL4_yggfWotn_Bw&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=women%20in%20the%20workforce%20decline%20in%20traditional%20family&f=false

hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/6798

econpapers.repec.org/article/tafconmgt/v_3a23_3ay_3a2005_3ai_3a10_3ap_3a1045-1057.htm

economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/a-milestone-for-women-workers/

carseyinstitute.unh.edu/publications/Report-Smith-WorkingHard.pdf

You’ll notice they run the gamut of political spectrums and all agree (on facts, not the information extrapolated from them): women in the 50’s barely worked (and society ran great!) while the increase of women in the workforce saw a decline in societal morals.

Of course, this has two implications: absent sperm donors, and, women’s lib.

So, now we have a segment of the population competing for resources where no competition need be.

It all comes down to this: doing the hard, right thing for society without totally mixing roles. We have failed very badly in this regard and are bearing the fruit of it.

Lucylight- you’re a stay at home mom? AWESOME! You’re a solution to the problem as are all stay at home moms who are not out there working needlessly.

 

[Debora123]

Angry? That my entire country is about to fail and this is partially why? yes. About women? Nah. I can turn the tables and start showing how men have had an equal hand in this too.

I’m not addressing Church teaching, I’ve made that perfectly clear, nor does the Church teach on this anyway. I’m talking about a step back and a look at historical trends and how this is partially to blame.

I don’t have to respect the destruction of the traditional family, not by a long shot, and not when I have said nothing that isn’t true.

If I didn’t respect the other people disagreeing with me, I’d not even be talking about this.

I don’t talk with people for whom I don’t feel respect, I just ignore them.

Now, instead of focusing on me… cus I’m a man, and hey, your opinion matters too lady, what do you think has led to the decline of the family and how has the introduction en masse of women in the workforce affected the American paradigm?

I don’t think women working has contributed to the “decline” of the family. My mother was a stay at home mom, but my husband’s mother was a full time doctor, and my husband is the most pure hearted, respectful, well grounded individual I’ve ever met. I’m only half the person he is.

I think premarital sex is the family’s worst enemy, but there are a lot of other things at play as well.

 

[LucyLight]

The confusion is caused by the fact that the second movement often borrows the name of the first. Sort of the way people like to call abortion “women’s health” even though it isn’t. Whenever I read the term “women’s health” in the paper I flinch because I know they are talking about contraception and killing children. That doesn’t mean, of course, that I’m against mammograms and pap smears.

Thank you! I need your clarity. It bothers me when I see people maligning the first movement. Women’s rights, feminism, women’s lib (whatever you want to call it) is not to blame. I also cringe when I see women’s health, as if prolifers dont care about womens health.