Why is the world catering to just 14%?

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To say that these Muslim laws seem antiquated by modern eyes because the faith is younger is a poor rational. I would accept colonialism or other economic excuses for the state of the people, but either there is something in Islam or something in the cultures that is keeping some of these people in a antiquated legal system.
It’s probably more about regional culture, not the religion. If not for the influence of Roman justice compared to that of more barbarian nations I think Christianity would probably still be as brutal as Islam.
 
It’s probably more about regional culture, not the religion. If not for the influence of Roman justice compared to that of more barbarian nations I think Christianity would probably still be as brutal as Islam.
Err… not a chance. It wasn’t Christians who invented crucifixion, or even beheading. The Roman were by far more brutal than any comtemporary Christians. That was just being ignorant.:rolleyes:
 
Err… not a chance. It wasn’t Christians who invented crucifixion, or even beheading. The Roman were by far more brutal than any comtemporary Christians. That was just being ignorant.:rolleyes:
I’m saying that Romans had a far more advanced sense of justice than many other cultures, and Christianity becoming a Roman religion had a definite effect on western nations being more civilized than eastern nations. If the Christian faith started in a more barbarous Arabia and Islam started in the Roman Empire the tables might be turned.
 
A lot of them probably do, they turn their symbols, religions, and nations into idols same as others. They make Mohammed an idol too when they jail people for naming a teddy bear after him. But then that’s why I disregard mainstream Islamic doctrine, it is as corrupt as the next.
In that case then you should go and lecture the Moslems first, before lecturing the Americans. I guess you wouldn’t, because if you go out there and start lecturing them, you are likely to have your head chopped off!
That doesn’t address the US problem though.
It certainly does.
Don’t you think they should ditch that thing which looks like an Egyptian devil . . .
Not at all. I think that symbol is great, and wouldn’t part with it for anything.

Do you know where the symbol of the Crescent and the Star comes form? Did you know that it predates Islam, and is in fact an ancient pagan symbol? Have a look at the article that I had linked to in my previous post, and you will get an idea where the symbol came from.
. . . and instead put Jesus on the money, . . .
How do you propose they should do that? Would the picture of a fish be acceptable?


That is the symbol that the early Christians used to symbolize Jesus Christ.
. . . if you really want something about God on it?
We already have “something about God on it”. It is called the “All Seeing Eye;” and I think that it is absolutely great. I wouldn’t part with it for the love of money! 😃

zerinus
 
In that case then you should go and lecture the Moslems first, before lecturing the Americans. I guess you wouldn’t, because if you go out there and start lecturing them, you are likely to have your head chopped off!
Why should I go anywhere, I can lecture all I want sitting right here on my fat behind. I’m American too so, you know, charity begins at home and all that.

Not at all. I think that symbol is great, and wouldn’t part with it for anything.

Do you know where the symbol of the Crescent and the Star comes form? Did you know that it predates Islam, and is in fact an ancient pagan symbol? Have a look at the article that I had linked to in my previous post, and you will get an idea where the symbol came from.

Yeah I know all that. So is the Star of David.

We already have “something about God on it”. It is called the “All Seeing Eye;” and I think that it is absolutely great. I wouldn’t part with it for the love of money! 😃

zerinus

So I take it you prefer that over something about Jesus. I have heard that in reality it represents Pharaoh, the enemy of the God of Israel.
 
So I take it you prefer that over something about Jesus.
It is about Jesus. Jesus is divine too, you know. That means that omniscience is one of His attributes, which is what that symbol signifies.
I have heard that in reality it represents Pharaoh, the enemy of the God of Israel.
You have heard wrong! Nobody really knows for sure what the origin of it is, and it don’t matter either. The only thing that matters is that to me, and to those who put it there, it signifies God’s providence and omniscience watching over us, and that is all that I care about.

zerinus
 
It is about Jesus. Jesus is divine too, you know. That means that omniscience is one of His attributes, which is what that symbol signifies.

You have heard wrong! Nobody really knows for sure what the origin of it is, and it don’t matter either. The only thing that matters is that to me, and to those who put it there, it signifies God’s providence and omniscience watching over us, and that is all that I care about.

zerinus
Don’t you think it would be better to say “In Jesus We Trust” instead if you believe that Jesus is God? Otherwise how do we know what god is really on there? The Statue of Liberty is the Roman goddess Libertas. Lady Justice is Iustitia.

Maybe the eye is there to tell you to see something. 😉
 
NBC this morning had a poll on this question:
How many people believe in God?
They had the highest number of responses that they have ever had for one of their polls, and the percentage was the same as this:
86% want to keep the words “In God We Trust” on our currency. and God in the Pledge of Allegiance.

14% against.

That is a pretty commanding response. It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God.
Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a mess about having “In God We Trust” on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Why is the world catering to this 14%?
You pose a good question. See they don’t want to get crtiizesed for choosidng one side over the other. They don’ want to hear that they are forcing people to beleive in something that they don’'t beleive in/ Or at least that is my opinion.
 
Don’t you think it would be better to say “In Jesus We Trust” instead if you believe that Jesus is God?
Jesus is God too, so what difference does it make?
Otherwise how do we know what god is really on there?
Either one will do me! The are “One” after all! 😃
The Statue of Liberty is the Roman goddess Libertas. Lady Justice is Iustitia.
So what? What do you want me to do about it? You thought I cared?
Maybe the eye is there to tell you to see something. 😉
I think I already have, thank you! 😃

zerinus
 
I see, you are LDS, I’m barking up the wrong tree…everyone is a god.
I have said nothing in my debates with you that was not backed by scripture, or that other Christians would disagree with! 😛

Is that your final statement of defeat? :rolleyes:

zerinus
 
The purpose of a democracy is to protect the minority from the opression of the masses. Even if a vast majority support a concept, the democratic method is to maintain that balance so that none are trampled.
thats a nice thought, but not true at all. democracy, which is practiced in most european countries supports the absolute majority. a representative republic, which the united states is is designed to protect the rights of the few. do some research on democratic tyrrany.

a majority of the USSR was also democratic, but they were most definitely not free.
 
I’m saying that Romans had a far more advanced sense of justice than many other cultures, and Christianity becoming a Roman religion had a definite effect on western nations being more civilized than eastern nations. If the Christian faith started in a more barbarous Arabia and Islam started in the Roman Empire the tables might be turned.
Not really. Who was the first known person to first devise a code of laws? Hammurabi. Romans may have had a more complex legal system, but justice is simply punishment for crimes committed and rewards for good deeds done.

Rome only had a more sophisticated justice system because it was so large. It had to have some legal system, and even then, it was only in the civilized areas that justice really took hold, and even then, not really moreso than any other civilization at its peak. For an example of Roman justice at work, look at Jesus’ trial. Innocent, as Pilate said, but Jesus was crucified anyway. (you can say whatever you want, “it wasn’t really Jesus” etc etc. :rolleyes: but the point holds.)

What made Christianity reject the brutality all around it was Christ and His teachings. “Love your neighbor as yourself…” “Turn the other cheek…”

Sorry. Care to try again?
 
I have said nothing in my debates with you that was not backed by scripture, or that other Christians would disagree with! 😛

Is that your final statement of defeat? :rolleyes:

zerinus
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It’s ok to use money, Jesus did, but I would be careful about loving things that are on it if you don’t really know what they are. Especially if it excludes Jesus.

Matthew 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.

Matthew 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
 
Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
The book of Revelation makes use of a great deal of imagery, allegory, symbolism, and figures of speech. I would be wary of trying to put too much of a literal interpretation on it.
It’s ok to use money, Jesus did, but I would be careful about loving things that are on it if you don’t really know what they are. Especially if it excludes Jesus.
I told you that we know what they are, and it does not “exclude Jesus”.
Matthew 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
Matthew 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
Matthew 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.
That scripture has no relevance to what we are talking about here. The Jews had asked Jesus a trick question in order to catch Him in His words. If He had said to them, “It is OK to pay tribute to Caesar,” they could have used that to discredit Him among the Jews by accusing Him of colluding with the evil Roman occupiers. If He had said, “It is not OK to pay tribute to Caesar,” they could have used that to get Him into trouble with the Roman governors by accusing Him of inciting rebellion against Rome. Jesus caught them in their guile, and gave them an answer that they could not have used against Him. He frustrated their cunning plots. He did not mean that we should not have images on our currencies, or that if we do, we are somehow committing sin.

zerinus
 
Under the concept of “minority rights”, sometimes the votes are counted and sometimes the votes are weighed.

So, sometimes the 14% of votes gets to outweigh the 86%.

No joke.

Just listen to some of our elected representatives. They lose an election, but want to assume the office anyway.

OR, they lose the majority in the Congress or a legislature, but want to make the laws anyway.

And if they can’t get their way by the number of votes, they try to get enough voters disenfranchised to win a recount.

OR, if that doesn’t work, they go to a “favorable” court and get a lawyer who happens to be a judge to issue a dictatorial edict granting what they want.

The Congress determines the jurisdiction of the Federal courts, but that doesn’t stop some folks.

Read Mark Levin’s book, “Men in Black” or Schlaffley’s book, “The Supremacists”.

Don’t forget the old axiom: “If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the facts are against you, argue the law. If both the facts and the law are against you, talk louder.”
 
The book of Revelation makes use of a great deal of imagery, allegory, symbolism, and figures of speech. I would be wary of trying to put too much of a literal interpretation on it.

It says what it says.

I told you that we know what they are, and it does not “exclude Jesus”.

Do you know of any government document explaining what the symbol is and that it includes Jesus?

That scripture has no relevance to what we are talking about here. The Jews had asked Jesus a trick question in order to catch Him in His words. If He had said to them, “It is OK to pay tribute to Caesar,” they could have used that to discredit Him among the Jews by accusing Him of colluding with the evil Roman occupiers. If He had said, “It is not OK to pay tribute to Caesar,” they could have used that to get Him into trouble with the Roman governors by accusing Him of inciting rebellion against Rome. Jesus caught them in their guile, and gave them an answer that they could not have used against Him. He frustrated their cunning plots. He did not mean that we should not have images on our currencies, or that if we do, we are somehow committing sin.

zerinus
Jesus is saying paying Caesar’s tax isn’t worshiping Caesar, or the Roman goddesses Lady Liberty or Justice for that matter, as long as you worship the real God of Israel.
 
It says what it says.
OK, so tell me now, what is the “beast,” what is the “mark,” or “name” of the beast, and what is the “number of his name”? What does it all mean?
Do you know of any government document explaining what the symbol is and that it includes Jesus?
Symbols mean whatever meaning you want to give them. It means whatever the American people believe it means. We know that it includes Jesus because we know that the Founding Founders of the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence deeply religious people of the Christian faith, and designed the Constitution based on Christian values. The expression, “In God We Trust” is the official motto of the United States, adopted by an Act of Congress in 1956. It is an expression of the nation’s belief and trust in God.

The “All Seeing Eye” is part of a larger more complex circular design, which itself forms part of the Great Seal of the United States, which was publicly first used in 1782. It is a complex design containing many deeply symbolic references. The symbology of it is explained in the Wikipedia article as follows:

Reverse (of the Seal)

The 1782 resolution adopting the seal describes the image on the reverse as “A pyramid unfinished. In the zenith an eye in a triangle, surrounded by a glory, proper.” The pyramid is conventionally shown as consisting of thirteen layers of blocks to refer to the thirteen original states. There are also thirteen sides shown on the ribbon. The adopting resolution provides that it is inscribed on its base with the date MDCCLXXVI (1776) in Roman numerals. Where the top of the pyramid should be, the so-called Eye of Providence watches over it. Two mottos appear: Annuit Cœptis signifies that the Eye of Providence has “nodded at (our) beginnings.” Novus Ordo Seclorum, freely taken from Virgil, means “a new order of the ages.” It is incorrectly rendered as “New World Order” by some theorists, and “a new secular order” by others. The word seclorum does not mean “secular”, as one might assume, but is the genitive (possessive) plural form of the word saeculum, meaning (in this context) generation, century, or age. Saeculum did come to mean “age, world” in late, Christian, Latin, and “secular” is derived from it, through secularis. However, the adjective “secularis,” meaning “worldly,” is not equivalent to the nominative plural possessive “seclorum,” meaning “of the ages.” The reverse has never been cut (as a seal) but appears, for example, on the back of the one-dollar bill.

The all-seeing eye was a well-known classical symbol of the Renaissance. The eye in a triangle design originally was suggested by Pierre Eugene du Simitiere, and later heraldist William Barton improved upon the design. In Du Simitière’s original sketch, two figures stand next to a shield with the all-seeing pyramid above them. The August 20, 1776 report of the first Great Seal Committee describes the seal as “Crest The Eye of Providence in a radiant Triangle whose Glory extends over the Shield and beyond the Figures.”

Abstract of all elements counting thirteen

In honor of the fact that there were originally thirteen States in the Union, items consisting of this number is a common motif in the seal. There are:
  • 13 stars (in the “glory” above the eagle’s head)
  • 13 stripes on the sheild
  • 13 arrows in the eagle’s talon
  • 13 letters in the mottos “e pluribus unum” and “annuit coeptis” (apparently coincidental; there are 52 letters on the whole seal, which is itself evenly divisible by 13)
  • 13 olive leaves (by custom, not by law)
  • 13 olives on the branch (by custom, not by law)
  • 13 brick levels of the pyramid (by custom, not by law)
  • 13 sides showing on the ribbon (by custom, not by law)
The history of it is explained in more detail in the Wikipedia article I had referenced.
Jesus is saying paying Caesar’s tax isn’t worshiping Caesar, or the Roman goddesses Lady Liberty or Justice for that matter, as long as you worship the real God of Israel.
That is not what He is saying at all. They are asking Him whether it is lawful (according to Jewish Law) that they should pay taxes to Caesar or not. He is saying to them that the money doesn’t belong to you any way, it belongs to Caesar, therefore give Caesar’s money back to Caesar, and give to God what (devotion) belongs to God. What it means is that you are not breaking God’s law by paying tribute to Caesar. You break God’s law when you disobey Him.

zerinus
 
I’m saying that Romans had a far more advanced sense of justice than many other cultures, and Christianity becoming a Roman religion had a definite effect on western nations being more civilized than eastern nations. If the Christian faith started in a more barbarous Arabia and Islam started in the Roman Empire the tables might be turned.
Christianity started in the middle east. Hmm-what other religio started there. It was 4 hundred years after the Birth of Christ that the Romans accepted Chritianity so one could hardly call it a Roman religion In addtion compare the New Testament to the Koran and tell me which one calls for violence against non-beleivers.

Of courrse the big differenc is there are no Church leders calling for Jihad…
 
OK, so tell me now, what is the “beast,” what is the “mark,” or “name” of the beast, and what is the “number of his name”? What does it all mean?

That is not what He is saying at all. They are asking Him whether it is lawful (according to Jewish Law) that they should pay taxes to Caesar or not. He is saying to them that the money doesn’t belong to you any way, it belongs to Caesar, therefore give Caesar’s money back to Caesar, and give to God what (devotion) belongs to God. What it means is that you are not breaking God’s law by paying tribute to Caesar. You break God’s law when you disobey Him.

zerinus
The concern about paying tribute was that it may be seen as an act of worship. Like Hiram worshiped King Solomon with all the gold in Ophir.

1 Kings 10:14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold,
 
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