Why is there not a single Protestant Understanding of the Bible?

[CMatt25]

Hiya, Friend!

Is *anything *we believe okay, as long as it’s called “faith”?

Hi PR,

Well robbing the pockets of a person standing on a street corner and then murdering the person with a loaded gun is not ok. But differing faith beliefs and understandings on things such as transubstantiation, papal infallibilty, etc, are ok under the banner of faith.

Anyway I’m glad you’re blessed with all those bathrooms for the hair products.

 

[PRmerger]

Hi PR,

Well robbing the pockets of a person standing on a street corner and then murdering the person with a loaded gun is not ok. But differing faith beliefs and understandings on things such as transubstantiation, papal infallibilty, etc, are ok under the banner of faith.

What’s the line? Who gets to draw it?

That is, how do we know what’s “ok” vs “not ok” to believe? As we’ve already established (Lurkers, Matt and I go way back so we’re familiar with each other’s paradigms already) there are some things (thank goodness!) that you acknowledge a person cannot proclaim and be a person of faith. Who gets to decide whether it’s okay to believe in many gods vs One God? Whether Jesus is a really good guru or God Incarnate? Whether God hates a certain group of people or whether God loves everyone?

 

[Luvtosew]

You know, upon re-reading this, a funny thought occurred to me.

You don’t even realize that in your answer that’s trying to say you don’t need the Church, you are advocating doing exactly what the Church does that you’re so against!. The Church “helps us with that”, just like you said we should do to help some poor misunderstood soul who’s read the Bible and concludes that Jesus is not God.

Funny, no?

Why do you get to help someone with their misunderstandings and misinterpretations of Scripture, but the Church can’t do this as well?

This is a very said thread , have you read it?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=639990

How is it these kids don’t even believe in God.

Who says I have a misunterstanding of Scripture , that is an assumption on your part.
Gee I was listening to Father Mitch on Ewtn last night, talking about Scripture and since Vatican II the Church is now advocating reading scripture, well that is Good news, although many Catholics don’t crack open a Bible. He also talked about the Trinity, can’t remember exactely what he said, just something about the importance of it.

I do want your thoughts on the link I gave you, why kids ready for their confirmation and not believing in God, although they have been receiving the Eucharist for several years, what and who fell through the cracks here?

Glad you have lots of bathrooms too.

 

[CopticChristian]

This is a very said thread , have you read it?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=639990

How is it these kids don’t even believe in God.

Who says I have a misunterstanding of Scripture , that is an assumption on your part.
Gee I was listening to Father Mitch on Ewtn last night, talking about Scripture and since Vatican II the Church is now advocating reading scripture, well that is Good news, although many Catholics don’t crack open a Bible. He also talked about the Trinity, can’t remember exactely what he said, just something about the importance of it.

I do want your thoughts on the link I gave you, **why kids ready for their confirmation and not believing in God, although they have been receiving the Eucharist for several years, **what and who fell through the cracks here?

Glad you have lots of bathrooms too.

Sew,

I suggest you factor in the Eastern Catholic that Baptizes, Confirms and takes babies to the Eucharist.

 

[Luvtosew]

Coptic,
Really!

And then I read about the poor downs syndrom boy who was 8 or 9 ish and the parents wanted him to receive communion and he was denied as he didn’t have comprehension yet (they were not sure if he really comprehended ) and could’t sit through a whole Mass.

This puzzels me as I’ve read that one needs to believe what the Eucharists really is what the CC says it is or one should not receive the host.

 

[PRmerger]

Who says I have a misunterstanding of Scripture , that is an assumption on your part.

No, Luv. Please follow the track of postings. I didn’t say YOU had a misunderstanding of Scripture.

YOU implied that a person who can read the Scriptures and decide that Jesus is NOT God needs to be “helped out.”

Do you remember saying that?

So…if you understand that someone can read the Scriptures and come to some ga-ga la-la nonsense about what it means, and then have someone “help her” understand correctly…

why do you believe that the Church can’t do this???

 

[PRmerger]

This is a very said thread , have you read it?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=639990

Very sad indeed.

How is it these kids don’t even believe in God.

A few thoughts on this: they may not believe in God because of

• sin
• secular society’s influence
• natural desire to rebel against an authority

I do want your thoughts on the link I gave you, why kids ready for their confirmation and not believing in God, although they have been receiving the Eucharist for several years, what and who fell through the cracks here?

I’m reading an underlying indictment against the Catholic Church here for allowing kids to receive the Eucharist who don’t believe in God.

Is there a system that you think would prevent this, Luv? What are your suggestions for how you would handle this?

 

[Luvtosew]

Well I think this girl you brought up probably had no religious upbringing at all,
or there are some people even with a religious upbringing do not believe.

but since you know this girl I sugest you try and help her out.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=639990

Now I know your answer to the above link, you will say well they are seaching for answers like that last poster said.

did you read the article of the link I also posted how that one school is not teaching necessay stuff such as the trinity.

Now who fault is it that these teens dout the existance of God after spending 14 or so years in the CC and recieving the host for several years now?

 

[PRmerger]

Coptic,
Really!

And then I read about the poor downs syndrom boy who was 8 or 9 ish and the parents wanted him to receive communion and he was denied as he didn’t have comprehension yet (they were not sure if he really comprehended ) and could’t sit through a whole Mass.

I don’t know about this specific case, maybe he indeed was not ready. Maybe he was.

But I do know that there is a young man with Down syndrome in my parish who receives the Eucharist. He receives the Eucharist with such reverence and theological wisdom that it chokes me up each and every time he goes up to receive Him. Clearly, he gets it, better than most of us, probably.

 

[PRmerger]

but since you know this girl I sugest you try and help her out.

LOL!

So why do you think it’s okay for you or me to “help her out” but when the Church does, you say, “I don’t need no stinkin’ Church to tell ME what to think!”

Ok. If that’s your paradigm, Luv, then you cannot tell anyone–anyone at all–when they read the Scriptures and say that they now believe that Mary is a goddess, that they need some help in understanding. He’s just going to say the same thing to you, “I don’t need no stinkin’ -]Church /-]l*ady who loves to sew * to tell me what to think or believe. I read the Scriptures on my own. You think I can’t do that?”

You can’t have it both ways, Luv. :nope:

 

[PRmerger]

Now who fault is it that these teens dout the existance of God after spending 14 or so years in the CC and recieving the host for several years now?

What are your suggestions? What is the Church not doing that you think she should be doing?

Please be specific.

 

[Luvtosew]

“I don’t need no** stinkin’ **Church to tell ME what to think!”

I do not believe I ever used the word stinkin, as thats a word i never use.

you are putting words in my mouth, no I don’t need the Church to hand teach me their meaning of scripture, I have a brain and a Holy Spirit. If this is putting the CC down so be it, as I know they feel no one can interpret the Scriptures except them.

I will at this point in my life let the Holy Spirit be my guide, if I choose to listen to a Baptist sermon or any other I will, as I have listened to Catholics speakers also. I will not let men tell me what to believe anymore, is that ok with you.

I realize many Catholics need to be told what to do, and how to do it, which is fine for awhile, but people need to take their faith and decide for themselves what makes sense for them and what doesn’t.

I am in no way downgrading the CC or Catholics so I wonder why you are so defensive.

 

[PRmerger]

"I don’t need no** stinkin’ **Church to tell ME what to think!

I do not believe I ever used the word stinkin, as thats a word i never use."

It was not to be taken literally, Luv. It’s more of the sentiment rather than the exact phrasing that you use.

But in the interest of not going down a rabbit trail for something irrelevant, I will amend my statement of your paradigm to be, “I don’t need a Church to tell ME what to think!”

you are putting words in my mouth, no I don’t need the Church to hand teach me their meaning of scripture, I have a brain and a Holy Spirit

So then you’re going to have to explain why you think it’s okay for you or me to try to “help out” someone who comes to a different interpretation of Scripture (let’s say, that Jesus is NOT divine), but why it’s not ok for the Church to do that.

 

[CMatt25]

“I don’t need no** stinkin’ **Church to tell ME what to think!”

I do not believe I ever used the word stinkin, as thats a word i never use.

you are putting words in my mouth, no I don’t need the Church to hand teach me their meaning of scripture, I have a brain and a Holy Spirit. If this is putting the CC down so be it, as I know they feel no one can interpret the Scriptures except them.

I will at this point in my life let the Holy Spirit be my guide, if I choose to listen to a Baptist sermon or any other I will, as I have listened to Catholics speakers also. I will not let men tell me what to believe anymore, is that ok with you.

I realize many Catholics need to be told what to do, and how to do it, which is fine for awhile, but people need to take their faith and decide for themselves what makes sense for them and what doesn’t.

I am in no way downgrading the CC or Catholics so I wonder why you are so defensive.

 

[onemangang]

“I don’t need no** stinkin’ **Church to tell ME what to think!”

I do not believe I ever used the word stinkin, as thats a word i never use.

you are putting words in my mouth, no I don’t need the Church to hand teach me their meaning of scripture, I have a brain and a Holy Spirit. If this is putting the CC down so be it, as I know they feel no one can interpret the Scriptures except them.

I will at this point in my life let the Holy Spirit be my guide, if I choose to listen to a Baptist sermon or any other I will, as I have listened to Catholics speakers also. I will not let men tell me what to believe anymore, is that ok with you.

I realize many Catholics need to be told what to do, and how to do it, which is fine for awhile, but people need to take their faith and decide for themselves what makes sense for them and what doesn’t.

I am in no way downgrading the CC or Catholics so I wonder why you are so defensive.

Blessed John Henry Newman must not have been that bright after all. I mean, all he had to do was let the Holy Spirit be his guide, and he could have remained an Anglican and discerned the truth on his own. He didn’t need the Church

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

If the LORD did give us a Church and the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, then we don’t have to lean on our own understanding, being that She is guided by the Holy Spirit.

If the LORD did NOT give us a Church but left us a bunch of books to discern truth on our own, then by all means lean on your own understanding.

I know people say The Holy Spirit will guide ME to all truth. Really? 30,000 different interpretations of Scripture and God is not the author of confusion, how could the Holy Spirit be guiding people to division, unless people are relying on their own understanding? But that must not apply to you. You probably a whole lot smarter than those guy’s. :idea:

I read this somewhere “Undogmatic religious individualism that ignores the Church’s role in the transmission of revealed truth, must lead inexorably to subjectivism and skepticism.”

Have Fun! :aok:

I guess the rest of us unenlightened fools will be forced to rely on the Pope and Magisterium for revealed truth. :sad_bye: Please pray for us!

 

[Luvtosew]

onemangang- your name fits you well. One Man Gang

 

[CMatt25]

I will at this point in my life let the Holy Spirit be my guide, if I choose to listen to a Baptist sermon or any other I will, as I have listened to Catholics speakers also. I will not let men tell me what to believe anymore, is that ok with you.

I realize many Catholics need to be told what to do, and how to do it, which is fine for awhile, but people need to take their faith and decide for themselves what makes sense for them and what doesn’t.

I am in no way downgrading the CC or Catholics so I wonder why you are so defensive.

I’ve given the same answer about the Holy Spirit to PR. She then doesn’t understand how the HS can be giving different understandings and all be correct. And I simply say they might not all be correct but it’s a matter of faith and as you point out, a matter of the person deciding what makes sense to them on a lot of these faith questions.

I think what it boils down to is this:

Many Catholics, believing in their church’s authority on all matters of faith, have a need then to be told by this authority what to do and what to believe about everything. That’s their faith.

Others like yourself have a need to pray for the discernment of the Holy Spirit along with using your God given reasoning to decide for yourself. And that’s your faith.

Both people of faith.

And of course by disagreeing with something about the Catholic faith, you are not downgrading the CC or Catholics.

May God bless all of His children along their faith journeys. Peace.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve given the same answer about the Holy Spirit to PR. She then doesn’t understand how the HS can be giving different understandings and all be correct.

Right.

And I also don’t understand how someone who advocates this paradigm can also say that certain things are NOT correct, but be guided by the Holy Spirit. How does that work? The Holy Spirit tells someone to believe an incorrect belief? The Holy Spirit guides us to all truth, but also tells people something wrong?

 

[PRmerger]

II think what it boils down to is this:

Many Catholics, believing in their church’s authority on all matters of faith, have a need then to be told by this authority what to do and what to believe about everything. That’s their faith.

You misunderstand “many Catholics”, Matt and it saddens me greatly that you believe this about many of us, when you’ve been on the CAFs long enough to know better.

We have a need to be conformed to Truth, NOT to 'be told by this authority what to do and what to believe about everything." That makes me that you offer this as an explanation.

Others like yourself have a need to pray for the discernment of the Holy Spirit along with using your God given reasoning to decide for yourself. And that’s your faith.

This, rather, is the Catholic position.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve given the same answer about the Holy Spirit to PR. She then doesn’t understand how the HS can be giving different understandings and all be correct. And I simply say they might not all be correct but it’s a matter of faith and as you point out, a matter of the person deciding what makes sense to them on a lot of these faith questions.

I think what it boils down to is this:

Many Catholics, believing in their church’s authority on all matters of faith, have a need then to be told by this authority what to do and what to believe about everything. That’s their faith.

Others like yourself have a need to pray for the discernment of the Holy Spirit along with using your God given reasoning to decide for yourself. And that’s your faith.

Both people of faith.

And of course by disagreeing with something about the Catholic faith, you are not downgrading the CC or Catholics.

May God bless all of His children along their faith journeys. Peace.

Incidentally, without any authority you cannot tell anyone that it’s incorrect to believe that Mary is a goddess, that Jesus is NOT divine, that your pet rock is the source of your cure from cancer, that the host someone took from a Mass and stomped on is a legitimate ritual, that God hates anyone of a particular sexual orientation…etc etc etc.

You cannot evangelize.

And that’s sad.

And wrong. You have been called to proclaim the Gospel.

But if you can’t even say when someone’s proclaiming a false gospel, you have no means of proffering the Truth.