Why is thinking about sex so terrible?

[Oren]

Whenever I start having problems with Catholicism, it always seems to revolve around the same issue. I can accept a lot of stuff, and I have. But what I keep having a problem with over and over, is the issue of what you think. I can understand not doing bad things, but I can’t understand how it could be a mortal sin if you even think of something. It seems so much like mind control.

I could even get on board with not thinking bad stuff about people. BUT what I can’t understand is WHY you can’t think about sex. Why can’t you just fantasize, or read about it, or write about it? Like Saint Paul said, it’s better to marry than burn (or something like that)…well why isn’t it the same with just thinking about it…it’s better to think about it than do it. You know what I mean?

It’s not like I watch porn or go out and have sex with a bunch of people all the time. But I can’t even think about it?? Or write about it in a story for fun? I just don’t get it. Could someone explain why this is so terrible?

I’ve heard all the arguments about, it’s a gift and God doesn’t want you to abuse it. But I just don’t get why.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Oren:

BUT what I can’t understand is WHY you can’t think about sex. Why can’t you just fantasize, or read about it, or write about it?

Jesus makes this clear: “Everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultrey with her in his heart” (Matt 5:28).

This teaching is often misunderstood. If I (as a man) look at an attractive woman, and I am AWARE that she is desirable, I have NOT (yet) lusted after her. But, if I then go further, and think in my heart, “What a hot chick - I’d like to…” - NOW I’ve crossed the line into lust.

Thinking of women as simply objects of sexual gratification without the commitment of marriage is lust. Women were also created in the image of God, and Jesus died on the Cross for them as well. If we look upon an attactive woman, and our thoughts begin to stray, we ought to remind ourselves, “Jesus held this person in such high regard as to hang on a Cross and die for her.”

 

[Oren]

Well, no offense, but duh. I know that. I know what Jesus said. And btw I’m not likely to ever go out and lust after a woman. I am a straight woman. I know all the conventional arguments. I’ve been studying Catholicism for three years now. What I’m asking is WHY. I’m not even talking about looking at some dude on the street and thinking about it. I never do that. I’m talking about just pure in the mind. Just thinking about sex. I want to know why it is wrong. If it’s just in the mind, you’re in no danger of going out and doing it, let’s say, you’re in your room, alone. Or even if you are a virgin. It doesn’t make you want to go out and do it, you’d never do it. Then why is it wrong? Is it some kind of thought crime? What if it’s totally fictional people? I’m asking for a REAL explanation. I get adultery, I get fornication, I get all that stuff, but why the thought crimes??

 

[Flopfoot]

I don’t really know a great deal about this. But there was something I read which might be related.

The thing is, I don’t think that any thought could be a mortal sin (since, like you say, it’s not really a grave matter - nor is it something you’re sure is wrong - nor is it even something you have total control over, what about your subconcious? So it doesn’t really make any of the criterion for a mortal sin). So, if it is a sin, then it must be a venial sin. Now what do we know about venial sins? They don’t affect your salvation in any way, you don’t need to confess them at reconciliation, they’re hardly a big deal at all - except for one thing. The main problem with venial sins is that they weaken a person’s resolve and make a person more likely to give in to more serious sins. That’s exactly what sinful sexual thoughts (lust) are - they make people more inclined to commit a more serious sin. Like the other poster said, then, not all sexual thoughts are sinful or lustful. But some are. The last thing God wants is for you to be inclined to turn away from Him.

 

[John-the-Seeker]

Oren,
perhaps this will help.
First: Jesus asks,“Where is the virtue for you in not sinning if you have never been tempted?”
Second: Jesus says,“A thought is like a newborn babe, if it is not loved, nourished and cared for it will die.”
He permits the enemy to present thoughts to you that you have the grace to reject. If you quickly reject the thought, the thought soon dies. But if you allow the thought to remain, and you encourage it and love it and give it room in your heart to grow, that is where sin develops. The thought then becomes almost more important than the deeds that may follow for where your mind is is where your heart is. As The Bible tells us it is not what goes into our mouths that can harm us but rather what comes out because it comes from our heart.
We cannot serve two masters. We must choose or reject Love. That is our only choice. All else is just ways of living the choice we make.

 

[twiztedseraph]

Oren:

Whenever I start having problems with Catholicism, it always seems to revolve around the same issue. I can accept a lot of stuff, and I have. But what I keep having a problem with over and over, is the issue of what you think. I can understand not doing bad things, but I can’t understand how it could be a mortal sin if you even think of something. It seems so much like mind control.

I could even get on board with not thinking bad stuff about people. BUT what I can’t understand is WHY you can’t think about sex. Why can’t you just fantasize, or read about it, or write about it? Like Saint Paul said, it’s better to marry than burn (or something like that)…well why isn’t it the same with just thinking about it…it’s better to think about it than do it. You know what I mean?

It’s not like I watch porn or go out and have sex with a bunch of people all the time. But I can’t even think about it?? Or write about it in a story for fun? I just don’t get it. Could someone explain why this is so terrible?

I’ve heard all the arguments about, it’s a gift and God doesn’t want you to abuse it. But I just don’t get why.

Peace brother,

Our late great Pope John Paul II taught us that the opposite of love is not hate, but using someone. In perverse thoughts or even just lustfull thoughts we reduce a person, a human being (imaginary or not) to a means to an end… Also if and when you get married, this will be a great hazard to your love for your spouse as you shouldn’t even care about your pleasure but about hers, after years of lustful thoughts (which lets face it, unless you can control your bloodflow gets some body parts going which leads to more problems).

Sex is a gift from God as you correctly pointed out, but, He still owns it, as through it we become partners so to speak in creation in giving life to others. The call for two people to become one is a small thumbnail of our call to become one with God, by reducing that call to a series of perverse thoughts you deny its divine origins and meaning.

I hope you return to the Church, peace and God bless you

 

[Kobieta]

What we think is important. Actions begin with thoughts. I think bad thoughts are less sinful than bad actions, but nevertheless, we should do our best to control our thoughts. It’s not easy though.

 

[Trelow]

It’s ok to think about sex. It’ s the context in which you do it that matters.

If you send your days in the office thinking about ravishing a horde of barbarian men for pure sexual pleasure, that’s bad.

If you think about how you can;t wait to get home and renew your marriage covenant with your husband out of love and mutual pleasure, that’s good.

 

[Katie1723]

Trelow:

It’s ok to think about sex. It’ s the context in which you do it that matters.

If you send your days in the office thinking about ravishing a horde of barbarian men for pure sexual pleasure, that’s bad.

If you think about how you can;t wait to get home and renew your marriage covenant with your husband out of love and mutual pleasure, that’s good.

Along the same lines…what happens if all you have are memories?
~ Kathy ~

 

[Trelow]

Katie1723:

Along the same lines…what happens if all you have are memories?

                ~ Kathy ~

Nothing wrong with that, as long as the memories are holy.

I’d wager to say for me to think about our wedding night isn’t wrong, but for me to deliberately replay some of the wild nights from college in my mind would be a different thing altogether.

Sex is no different than anything else, in that it requires goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances.

 

[StratusRose]

I agree with the context of the thoughts, and if you entertain sexual thoughts. As humans we think of sex a lot, and we cannot control what pops into our heads. I know sometimes when I’m spacing out it will come into my head, but then when I become conscious of it I shake it off. Those kinds of thoughts lead to actions that are not holy.

But when I think about marrying my boyfriend and the first time we consumate our relationship I am not lusting for him. I just think about how perfect (I hope) it will be. It’s not like I’m thinking “Oh boy, I can’t wait until he…and then I’m gonna give it to him good…” It’s not like that at all. I just think about how wonderful it will be to be so close to him and the possibility that we may be making a new life.

 

[Rejoice]

I agree with a lot of what’s been said, but I’d like to add a personal testimony. Before I became a Catholic I fantasized a lot and masturbated once or twice a day. I didn’t see anything wrong with it. I knew I loved my wife and I was always faithful in body (though I know now, not in my heart).

After converting, I decided I’d better stop masturbating since the Church teaches against it. I used to think it would be nearly impossible. It WAS very hard at first. For a while I thought, well, what if I fantasize only about my wife. So I did that. But I still knew I was going against Church teaching so reluctantly I stopped doing that. There was a progression along these lines, in which I gradually gave up fantasies, one kind after another.

Now I can tell you, here’s the result – I feel so much freer. I only dimly realized it before, but I was in bondage. I see it more clearly now, that all sin is a kind of slavery. The reason we’re trapped in it is because we want to be, but if we can get ourselves out of it it’s like, “Ah, I can breathe. I can do what I want. My thoughts and feelings aren’t constantly telling me what to do.”

I also see women very differently now. Whereas before I used to look at virtually every woman with lust (this may be hard for some women to relate to, but I submit that guys often do this) – more or less depending on the attractiveness of the woman, how long since we’ve last fantasized, whether we’ve been drinking, whether we’re stressed, tired, distracted and so on. Don’t get me wrong, I’m still attracted to women. But now if I feel that pull, I say, “Lord, help me” or “Lord, have mercy on me” or something like that. And it works.

There is something very beautiful about seeing women the way God sees them – or at least closer to the way He sees them. It’s a fullness of vision instead of a tunnel vision. It’s more pure and it feels right.

Even more wonderful for me is the effect it’s had on my marriage. I really see my wife first as a person, this beautiful, kind woman who I’m so glad decided to be with me. Whereas before, though I didn’t realize it, I often saw her first with eyes of lust or at least through the filter of pleasure, of self-gratification. We are so much closer now. And this is the woman who I could not have imagined loving anymore. Well, I was wrong. Because I do love her more.

So I suppose my point is this: when we are in sin it is easy to ask, “Why not?” instead of trying to follow a “hard teaching” (as the disciples sometimes said: “this is a hard teaching, who can listen to it?”). Sometimes the answer is in the doing, not in the reasoning. I recommend you try for a month to go completely without fantasizing. Whenever you’re tempted to do so, turn it over to God and ask for help. You will be freed. I am happy for you that you are asking the question because I believe it means your heart is telling you you are close to truth. You just have to persevere. Don’t give up looking for the Truth. Because the Truth is not a something (as Father Corapi says), it’s a Somebody: Jesus.

If you are interested in more resources, I recommend anything by Christopher West and his treatment of John Paul II’s Theology of the Body. Just google him or go to amazon.com.

God bless you and keep you. I’ll pray for you.

 

[awalt]

Love is a gift from God.

God gave us the ability to procreate, to share in one of His most wonderful abilities, to create life. He has told us that lovemaking is to be used for this purpose, and no other.

So when we use sex and love for purposes other than what God intended us to use it for, it is a sin. God gave us love, our bodies, life. It is all His, so if we love God we appreciate His gifts and use them how they were intended, per His wishes. To abuse the gifts God gives us, therefore, is a sin and we are turning away from the One who gave us these gifts.

 

[Gnosis]

I think its very much like the Buddha said, that “everything we are is a result of what we have thought, and with our thoughts we form the world”

Our actions spring forth from our thoughts. It isn’t enought to refrain from harmful action, rather we mus attack it at its root…within our minds.

 

[Fidelis]

But what I can’t understand is why you can’t think about sex.

I, for one, would like to see where in Catholic teaching you found this.

 

[cynic]

Rejoice:

I agree with a lot of what’s been said, but I’d like to add a personal testimony. Before I became a Catholic I fantasized a lot and masturbated once or twice a day. I didn’t see anything wrong with it. I knew I loved my wife and I was always faithful in body (though I know now, not in my heart).

After converting, I decided I’d better stop masturbating since the Church teaches against it. I used to think it would be nearly impossible. It WAS very hard at first. For a while I thought, well, what if I fantasize only about my wife. So I did that. But I still knew I was going against Church teaching so reluctantly I stopped doing that. There was a progression along these lines, in which I gradually gave up fantasies, one kind after another.

Now I can tell you, here’s the result – I feel so much freer. I only dimly realized it before, but I was in bondage. I see it more clearly now, that all sin is a kind of slavery. The reason we’re trapped in it is because we want to be, but if we can get ourselves out of it it’s like, “Ah, I can breathe. I can do what I want. My thoughts and feelings aren’t constantly telling me what to do.”

.

If sex is in the brain then how are you supposed to be aroused without ‘lustful’ thoughts ablut your spouse (your definition), during the act?. What is the difference between so called sinful fantasies and the neccesary thoughts during the act. If fantasies are wrong then whats going on the mind during the ‘relations’ must be wrong also. You talk as if thinking about phsycial attractivenes (of your spouse) and acknowledging the person are mutually exclusive. Viewing your spouse only as an object is the sin, isn’t it?

I’ll be yelled down for this, but some measure of ‘objectifcation’ is neccessary for arousal.

 

[LittleDeb]

Oren:

I could even get on board with not thinking bad stuff about people. BUT what I can’t understand is WHY you can’t think about sex. Why can’t you just fantasize, or read about it, or write about it? Like Saint Paul said, it’s better to marry than burn (or something like that)…well why isn’t it the same with just thinking about it…it’s better to think about it than do it. You know what I mean?

It’s not like I watch porn or go out and have sex with a bunch of people all the time. But I can’t even think about it?? Or write about it in a story for fun? I just don’t get it. Could someone explain why this is so terrible?

I would agree with others about the context being very important.

I will say for me one important thing I discovered was after I read a phrase defining pornography. I don’t remember where I first read it but have seen it here on the forums too.

Porn:
Men–lots of of pictures, a few words.
Women–lots of words, one picture.

I used to love romance novels! I liked the ones with the virginal girl who gets tricked into marriage by the “man of the world,” then later discovers he is her soul mate! I had lots of them. I even wanted to write one someday. Then I saw that simple definition of porn and went, “WOW, that is true!” I threw every one of them in the trash.

I had always known that men were more stimulated visually and women were more stimulated kinesthetically (by action.) Men tend to be audio/visual learners while women tend to learn by reading and doing. (please note I do say “tend.” There are always exceptions.) I guessed from your post that you were female because of the “thought process differences.”

Context, context, context. I think about sex all the time. I talk about sex almost every day. Context----I am a promoter of Natural Family Planning.

 

[Ruthie]

Oren,

Why not read Good News About Sex and Marriage, by Christopher West? You can buy the book here, just click on “shop” at the top right of the page.

It helped me come to a full, deep appreciation of the Church’s stand on sex. (Which was also a stumbling block for me.)

I don’t think it can be summed up in a few paragraphs, so I won’t try. But I will say that what the Church teaches about sex makes married sex well worth waiting for. This from me, who used to go by, “If it feels good, do it,” and treated sex like an itch that needed scratching. If only the folks that recommended abstinence to me when I was a kid had known this stuff!

I’m a new convert, and DH is a new revert. We are “living like brother and sister” while we wait for my annulment. I’ve told him he better read the book, because my expectations about sex have been 'way raised!

 

[LovedOne]

cynic:

If sex is in the brain then how are you supposed to be aroused without ‘lustful’ thoughts ablut your spouse (your definition), during the act?. What is the difference between so called sinful fantasies and the neccesary thoughts during the act. If fantasies are wrong then whats going on the mind during the ‘relations’ must be wrong also. You talk as if thinking about phsycial attractivenes (of your spouse) and acknowledging the person are mutually exclusive. Viewing your spouse only as an object is the sin, isn’t it?

I’ll be yelled down for this, but some measure of ‘objectifcation’ is neccessary for arousal.

Cynic - these are excellent points and ones I’ve pondered as well.
As a married person I think about sex with my spouse alot. How can someone in love with their spouse NOT think about the ultimate thing that God himself designed to express that love? It is not dirty or objectifying - but comforting and wonderful!

I think prudence is required here lest we fall into scrupulosity.
It is the CONTEXT in which we “think” about sex that distingues it from lust. The term “lust” get thrown around alot on this forum and often is mischaracterized.
We are not robots who perform a programmed function called intercourse. We are human beings who are individuals designed with the ability to dream, imagine and love.
The mind MUST be involved in these functions. It is up to us to underscore them always with LOVE. That is the key.

 

[Oren]

Yeah, I am a girl. Unmarried, never been married. I have gone for long periods of time without ‘fantasizing’. But as you may know, a lot of girls go through periods of feeling really sexually charged, and then periods where they’re not. At least a lot more than guys. So I have gone through periods of not doing anything like that. I didn’t feel any better. I just felt like I didn’t feel like doing it, so I didn’t. On the other hand, when I did feel like doing it again, and then I had to feel guilty about it, THEN I felt terrible. It didn’t make me feel any better.

To the person who asked where I found that ‘thinking about sex’ is taught against by the Church, what I meant was the teaching against the sin of ‘lust’ all of that. If you want to argue that, or expand on your comment, fine.

I’m not even just talking about sex, it’s more just the feeling of oppression. I mean, I don’t mean to sound like some liberal progressive feminist or anything like that. I’m just speaking in terms of feeling like you can’t think what you want to. Honestly, I think it is damaging, psychologically. I know I’m going to get blasted for saying that. But I’m someone who grew up ‘secularly’ with no religion. Now, I don’t think that being completely free with sexuality is good. I don’t think we should go and have sex out of marriage. I don’t think anything like that. But when I became Catholic, it was too hard for me to feel guilty about something I never felt guilty about before, I’m speaking of fantasizing, and I’ve never gotten a good explanation of why I’m supposed to feel guilty about it. I haven’t had sex, I don’t go out cruising bars, fantasizing has never made me want to do anything of the kind. So why is it wrong? I’ve seen people say that it leads to action like that, but it doesn’t and has never in my case. So what’s the argument then?

About all of the people speaking about, how it’s the best to save it for marriage etc. Well, aren’t you saving it for marriage if you never have sex? I’ve heard the whole objectification thing hundreds of times. And while I understand the argument, I just don’t see it happening. At least not in my mind or my situation. I don’t think less of anyone because I fantasize about them. Besides which I never do about anyone I know. Why is it objectification?