why is this a sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter h1478971
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

h1478971

Guest
Can someone explain to me the theological reasons that make masturbation bad? This is something that teenagers have a problem with and many medical authorities also claim that it is OK and healthy.

I once spoke to a Baptist psychiatrist who minored in Baptist theology and he told me that Masturbation was OK and that there was nothing wrong theologically with that act.

Explain to me why he is wrong and why teenagers should avoid this act.
 
He is wrong because Baptist theology is not Catholic theology. There are many areas in the Baptist faith where they left the truth and went for another gospel. So, in what other areas would you like for me to expound on the inaccuracy of the Baptist church other than their position on masturbation? If you are Catholic then you are to stick with Catholic theology which recognizes the gift of sexuality as one given to a couple for the purpose of conjugal unitive love and procreation. And it’s not just wrong for teenagers. It is disordered for all. Teenagers have been given a little slack for their inablility to discern due to their high hormonal levels. But that is an individual discernment… God bless… teachccd
 
This sin is against nature and it is graver than fornication! Sexual appetite should be guided by reason. When you grow up surrounded by sins and accepting them as normal then they will become normal to perverts since they justified they wrong doings. Although their conscience reproaches them for doing wrong some doctor (doctor of what?) comes along to justify these as part of human nature. Part of the fallen human nature to be exact!

That is why you receive infused virtue (state of grace) of temperance to moderate sexual appetite according to reason and to help you avoid sins against Chastity. Anyway to answer this question you would need a book to fully describe… columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/chastity.html
 
Even from the point of view of Catholic theology, how on earth can masturbation (something involving one person with possibly psychological risks of addiction) be WORSE than fornication (risking unwanted pregnancy out of wedlock, STDs etc. and involving another person)?
 
Even from the point of view of Catholic theology, how on earth can masturbation (something involving one person with possibly psychological risks of addiction) be WORSE than fornication (risking unwanted pregnancy out of wedlock, STDs etc. and involving another person)?
I’m not going to say that one is worse than the other. Both are grave perversions of the sexual act. But one has at least some semblance of what the gift is supposed to be. You might look at it as though masturbation is 100% playing pretend-marriage, while fornication is only, say, 90% pretend-marriage.

But like you said, fornication is sinful for two people, while masturbation is only sinful for one. (Ignoring, of course, any pornography use that may be involved.)

It is not OK to say, “I only masturbated! At least I didn’t HAVE SEX!” Actually, neither is OK. To accept masturbation in place of fornication would require the assumption that someone is “just going to do it anyway.” That’s not necessarily true.

You asked about theology, but listed sociological reasons. They’re different disciplines.
 
Can someone explain to me the theological reasons that make masturbation bad? This is something that teenagers have a problem with and many medical authorities also claim that it is OK and healthy.

I once spoke to a Baptist psychiatrist who minored in Baptist theology and he told me that Masturbation was OK and that there was nothing wrong theologically with that act.

Explain to me why he is wrong and why teenagers should avoid this act.
well first of all, they may claim it’s healthy, but i’ve heard others say it’s not, and the explanation saying it’s more harmful than healthy makes more sense to me,
but i won’t get into that, simply because it’s besides the point, whether something is healthy for your body doesn’t really help you if it kills the soul, does it?

the reason it, along with every sin of impurity, is a mortal sin, is because it is lust, and lust is “intense sexual desire or appetite”, and the reason that is so bad is, because it enslaves you to the flesh, and makes you turn away from God,
it can’t be helped, if you give yourself to lustful desires, you turn away from God whether you want to or not, “No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” Matthew 6:24
you will either hate lust and love God, or love God and hate lust, you cannot do both.

the reason masturbation is a sin, is because it is separating the pleasure from the purpose, and so not only are you committing a sin against chastity, but you are also stealing, because those pleasures were meant for the married only, and then on top of that, you are committing idolatry, because you choose the flesh over God,
masturbation is selfish, you do it for no one but yourself, for no other reason than that you desire it, so it’s something God has no part of, and do you think that something God has no part of can be good at all? God is goodness itself, all goodness comes from Him, something cannot be good unless He is in it,
so ask yourself “How can this be good?”
on the contrary, not only does God have nothing to do with it, but the devil has very much to do with it, is masturbation not a temptation? and where do temptations come from? God allows them, but only because by overcoming them we become stronger against them, but the only 3 places temptations come from are, the devil, the world, and ourselves,

if you can just see that God has no part of this shameful act, then you can see clearly that it is a sin,
and don’t you think that if it wasn’t such a bad thing, that we wouldn’t be so tempted towards it? are we ever “tempted” to do good? no, we are inspired to good, we are mainly tempted to evil, and if it wasn’t evil, then it would be easy to dismiss it, but you know as well as i do that that just isn’t true.

our youth are being taught that these things are safe and healthy and not sinful, and they are also very perverted, dressed very loosely, and they don’t by any means stop at masturbation,
do you see why God has warned us against these things? they enslave us, God knows better, we do not, we are weak and naturally inclined towards evil, and i think it’s better that we just take His word for it even if we don’t understand, because look at the state of our world after mankind has had his way, God does a fine job when we let Him, it is only because of God that i have overcome many of my sins, and not by any means did mankind help me,
just look at the state of our society, and you will think twice before taking your advice from them,
look at the holy men and woman who take their advice from God, such as the saints, they were happy and at peace, but can you find even one modern teenager who has either one or the other? i have yet to meet one…

well, if you want to learn more on why this sin, or more specifically, lust, is bad, check out these very good sites that have alot of information on this and many other subjects -
audiosancto.org/
alabamacatholicresources.com/index.html

ok, hope this helps, take care.
 
Let’s see:
  1. sex with your spouse should be unitive and procreative. (has to finish the right way in the right place)
  2. sex with someone else’s spouse is adultery and wrong
  3. sex when you are unmarried is fornication and wrong
Knowing these things, is there room in this theology for having sex with yourself? If you can only have sex with your spouse, and that act must follow certain rules, that precludes having sex with others and without anyone else, doesn’t it?

You can’t just look at the individual act. Look around the topic at other aspects that are more easy to understand, and then apply them to the topic in question. Catholic theology is interlocking - it makes sense no matter how you look at it.
 
Can someone explain to me the theological reasons that make masturbation bad? This is something that teenagers have a problem with and many medical authorities also claim that it is OK and healthy.

I once spoke to a Baptist psychiatrist who minored in Baptist theology and he told me that Masturbation was OK and that there was nothing wrong theologically with that act.

Explain to me why he is wrong and why teenagers should avoid this act.
I see nothing wrong with masturbation. See some say that sex is just for procreation but there is no Biblical evidance that that is what sex is just for. There is nothing in the Bible that forbids masterbation. Some may point to the phraise “be fruitful and multiply” but that was for Adam and Eve to populate the earth. Some may point to Onan who spilled his semon so Tamar would not get pregnant. Once again his death was not due to his “spilling of his semon” his death was about not wanting to give his dead brother a child to be his heir. Its just something some religions see wrong and nothing more. Its not wrong nor is it a sin IMO. Its just normal human behavior. See some religions see having sex, except for procreation, is wrong but if its so wrong to have sex, with your spouse or yourself, for pleasure then why is it so pleasurable. Because thats how God made it and wanted it to be. Now some say it leads to sex addiction. for some its true and for most its not. You can get addicted to anything, ie coffee, cokes, sugar, pornography, and so on. Its easy to over due something but in moderation its not addictive. Is it better to please yourself, which is not fobiden in the Bible, or to fornicate or commit adultery, which is forbiden in the Bible and are considered sins? Most would say all 3 are wrong but only 2 have Biblical back up.
 
I see nothing wrong with masturbation. See some say that sex is just for procreation but there is no Biblical evidance that that is what sex is just for. There is nothing in the Bible that forbids masterbation. Some may point to the phraise “be fruitful and multiply” but that was for Adam and Eve to populate the earth. Some may point to Onan who spilled his semon so Tamar would not get pregnant. Once again his death was not due to his “spilling of his semon” his death was about not wanting to give his dead brother a child to be his heir. Its just something some religions see wrong and nothing more. Its not wrong nor is it a sin IMO. Its just normal human behavior. See some religions see having sex, except for procreation, is wrong but if its so wrong to have sex, with your spouse or yourself, for pleasure then why is it so pleasurable. Because thats how God made it and wanted it to be. Now some say it leads to sex addiction. for some its true and for most its not. You can get addicted to anything, ie coffee, cokes, sugar, pornography, and so on. Its easy to over due something but in moderation its not addictive. Is it better to please yourself, which is not fobiden in the Bible, or to fornicate or commit adultery, which is forbiden in the Bible and are considered sins? Most would say all 3 are wrong but only 2 have Biblical back up.
it’s not about the acts themselves, it’s about lust.
*
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, lust, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is the service of idols.”*

“But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

it’s much more simple than “masturbation, fornication, adultery”, and yet at the same time it goes so much deeper than that…

you don’t see what’s wrong with it, but that only means you don’t understand,
as i said in my last post, it is a temptation, a selfish act, one that God has no part of, and as such, cannot be good,

pleasure is not forbidden sure, but what does Jesus tell us?
“Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”

“Let him deny himself” that means to mortify the senses,
now of course to enjoy ourselves is one thing, but to go so far as to take part in lustful actions which satisfy the flesh in a manner that is reserved for husband and wife? that is far from mortification, it is mortal sin,

sex was made pleasurable simply to attract husband and wife to procreation, it’s the same with food, God did not have to make food enjoyable, but He wanted us to eat because we need it in order to survive, just as sex is needed for the population to grow,
it has it’s place and it’s purpose,

and although the bible may not use specific words such as masturbation, does that mean it’s not condemned? of course not, we have to use our common sense as well, and common sense says, what makes this sin so grave when it is between two people, but not alone? how is fornication a sin and not masturbation? they are both of the same intention, as is adultery, sins against nature, impure thoughts, these things are contrary to chastity, and as we know from the bible -
*
“For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from fornication; That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour: Not in the passion of lust, like the Gentiles that know not God:
…For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification. Therefore, he that despiseth these things, despiseth not man, but God, who also hath given his holy Spirit in us”*

“Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, to refrain yourselves from carnal desires which war against the soul.”

“Keep thyself chaste”


carnal desires…which war against the soul…what is a carnal desire except those desires that please the flesh? carnal, by it’s very definition, are the “passions and appetites” of the body, the sensual, it is also defined as “not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly”…

as i said, these things are sins because they enslave us, we cannot serve the flesh and God at the same time, we will either hate one and love the other, or love one and hate the other…that is why man creates other religions, because when one doesn’t satisfy his own ideas, he rejects it and makes God in his own image, rather than himself in Gods image…

so…that’s it, tomorrows Christmas :] so merry Christmas.
 
it’s not about the acts themselves, it’s about lust.
*
“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, lust, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is the service of idols.”*

“But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

it’s much more simple than “masturbation, fornication, adultery”, and yet at the same time it goes so much deeper than that…

you don’t see what’s wrong with it, but that only means you don’t understand,
as i said in my last post, it is a temptation, a selfish act, one that God has no part of, and as such, cannot be good,

pleasure is not forbidden sure, but what does Jesus tell us?
“Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”

“Let him deny himself” that means to mortify the senses,
now of course to enjoy ourselves is one thing, but to go so far as to take part in lustful actions which satisfy the flesh in a manner that is reserved for husband and wife? that is far from mortification, it is mortal sin,

sex was made pleasurable simply to attract husband and wife to procreation, it’s the same with food, God did not have to make food enjoyable, but He wanted us to eat because we need it in order to survive, just as sex is needed for the population to grow,
it has it’s place and it’s purpose,

and although the bible may not use specific words such as masturbation, does that mean it’s not condemned? of course not, we have to use our common sense as well, and common sense says, what makes this sin so grave when it is between two people, but not alone? how is fornication a sin and not masturbation? they are both of the same intention, as is adultery, sins against nature, impure thoughts, these things are contrary to chastity, and as we know from the bible -
*
“For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from fornication; That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour: Not in the passion of lust, like the Gentiles that know not God:
…For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto sanctification. Therefore, he that despiseth these things, despiseth not man, but God, who also hath given his holy Spirit in us”*

“Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, to refrain yourselves from carnal desires which war against the soul.”

“Keep thyself chaste”


carnal desires…which war against the soul…what is a carnal desire except those desires that please the flesh? carnal, by it’s very definition, are the “passions and appetites” of the body, the sensual, it is also defined as “not spiritual; merely human; temporal; worldly”…

as i said, these things are sins because they enslave us, we cannot serve the flesh and God at the same time, we will either hate one and love the other, or love one and hate the other…that is why man creates other religions, because when one doesn’t satisfy his own ideas, he rejects it and makes God in his own image, rather than himself in Gods image…

so…that’s it, tomorrows Christmas :] so merry Christmas.
Midieval interpreters were convinced that a future child is contained in the male seed. They believed that Onan wasted his male seed so he wasted human life. That was the essence of Onan’s sin according to these midieval theologians, as sin which was identified with masterbation. However, in view of our present day knowledge, modern Catholic moralists agreed that the ‘wastage of seed’ is not sinful. Every male ejaculation releases nearly 400 million seeds and only on is necessary for fertilizaton . Moreover, what is comdemned in Genesis 38:7-10 is not the wastage of seed, but Onan’s refusal to raise children for his brother.

Now some Christians interpreted some NT passages as directly referring to masterbation.
Ephesians 5:3-5, Galatians 5:19, Mark 7:20-22, 2 Corinthians 12:21, Colossians 3:5
None of the above refers to masterbation. They all refer to external breaches of marriage. Basing a scriptural prohibition on those texts is not justified, and is now generally agreed.

Experiencing pleasue is not in itself sinful. There are other forms of body stimulation that generate pleasurable feelings: luxuriating in a perfuned bath, lying on the beach and feeling the sun’s rays beating down on you, enjoying a delicious meal, experiencing a sensual massage. In each one of these some external agent stimulates merve endings which in turn generate pleasant feelings. The only difference with masterbation is the intensity of those feelings.

Pope Paul VI issued a declaration in 1975 on many aspects of human sexual ethics entitled: Persona Humana - Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics. Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on December 29, 1975.

Many Catholic theologians and moralists now reject the view expressed in this papal letter. They do not accept the traditional view that sexuality has been exclusively designed for procreation and that all sexual acts that cannot lead to conception are condemned as against natural law.

“Masterbation is the natural passage by which is reached the warm and generouss love of youth and later the calm and positive matrimonal love of maturity.” Havelock Ellis, The Psychology of Sex, London 1959
“…For the benefits of both parents and child it must be said once and for all that masterbation has no unfavourable consequences, either physical or moral, as long as one does not make the mistake of placing it on the moral plane, with which they have nothing to do.” Paolo Liggeri, Moral sesuale e Difficolta Attuali, Milano 1958.

thebodyissacred.org/body/sextouch.asp

Merry Christmas to you also.
 
Midieval interpreters were convinced that a future child is contained in the male seed. They believed that Onan wasted his male seed so he wasted human life. That was the essence of Onan’s sin according to these midieval theologians, as sin which was identified with masterbation. However, in view of our present day knowledge, modern Catholic moralists agreed that the ‘wastage of seed’ is not sinful. Every male ejaculation releases nearly 400 million seeds and only on is necessary for fertilizaton . Moreover, what is comdemned in Genesis 38:7-10 is not the wastage of seed, but Onan’s refusal to raise children for his brother.

Now some Christians interpreted some NT passages as directly referring to masterbation.
Ephesians 5:3-5, Galatians 5:19, Mark 7:20-22, 2 Corinthians 12:21, Colossians 3:5
None of the above refers to masterbation. They all refer to external breaches of marriage. Basing a scriptural prohibition on those texts is not justified, and is now generally agreed.

Experiencing pleasue is not in itself sinful. There are other forms of body stimulation that generate pleasurable feelings: luxuriating in a perfuned bath, lying on the beach and feeling the sun’s rays beating down on you, enjoying a delicious meal, experiencing a sensual massage. In each one of these some external agent stimulates merve endings which in turn generate pleasant feelings. The only difference with masterbation is the intensity of those feelings.

Pope Paul VI issued a declaration in 1975 on many aspects of human sexual ethics entitled: Persona Humana - Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics. Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on December 29, 1975.

Many Catholic theologians and moralists now reject the view expressed in this papal letter. They do not accept the traditional view that sexuality has been exclusively designed for procreation and that all sexual acts that cannot lead to conception are condemned as against natural law.

“Masterbation is the natural passage by which is reached the warm and generouss love of youth and later the calm and positive matrimonal love of maturity.” Havelock Ellis, The Psychology of Sex, London 1959
“…For the benefits of both parents and child it must be said once and for all that masterbation has no unfavourable consequences, either physical or moral, as long as one does not make the mistake of placing it on the moral plane, with which they have nothing to do.” Paolo Liggeri, Moral sesuale e Difficolta Attuali, Milano 1958.

thebodyissacred.org/body/sextouch.asp

Merry Christmas to you also.
you really didn’t respond to any of my points,

and regarding the bible, we believe masturbation is a sin for men and woman, so that “spilling of seed” passage is really not the only thing to it.

anyways, i have to go, i’m sure i’ll reply again tonight or tomorrow.
 
Is it better to please yourself, which is not fobiden in the Bible, or to fornicate or commit adultery, which is forbiden in the Bible and are considered sins? .
Relativism!

There are many things not expressly stated in Scripture as sinful, yet they are. Is it better to masturbate or get divorced? Is it better to masturbate with pornography or without pornography?

Masturbation involves lust, does it not? Isn’t lust forbidden in scripture? I’d say anyone who says they do not think lustful thoughts as they masturbate is either lying or deceiveing themself.
Basing a scriptural prohibition on those texts is not justified, and is now generally agreed.

You do remember that this is a Catholic forum, not a believe-whatever-the-spirit-leads-you-to-believe-about-scripture forum, right? What’s “generally agreed” does not necessarily apply to Catholic moral theology.
Experiencing pleasue is not in itself sinful. There are other forms of body stimulation that generate pleasurable feelings: luxuriating in a perfuned bath, lying on the beach and feeling the sun’s rays beating down on you, enjoying a delicious meal, experiencing a sensual massage. In each one of these some external agent stimulates merve endings which in turn generate pleasant feelings. The only difference with masterbation is the intensity of those feelings.

Bzzzzzt. Wrong. None of those other experiences has a connection to reproduction.
Pope Paul VI issued a declaration in 1975 on many aspects of human sexual ethics entitled: Persona Humana - Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics. Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on December 29, 1975.

Many Catholic theologians and moralists now reject the view expressed in this papal letter. They do not accept the traditional view that sexuality has been exclusively designed for procreation and that all sexual acts that cannot lead to conception are condemned as against natural law.

Yeah, and there are Catholic priests that believe in celebrating homosexual unions, and would do so if they could. What’s your point, because some people do not agree with CC teachings that they are wrong?
 
I’m Baptist (SBC) and it IS considered a sin. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and that is not honoring to God. Simple as that.
 
NOT A SIN!
Do you really think god thinks masterbation is a sin?!
As long as we respect our bodys then masterbation is no physical sin.
I ask people to no longer promote this idea that masterbation is a sin as there can much greater sins a teenager or adult can commit and therefore i would be sure god is more worried for more important sins yet to be commited.

GOD BLESS JOE.
 
NOT A SIN!
Do you really think god thinks masterbation is a sin?!
As long as we respect our bodys then masterbation is no physical sin.
I ask people to no longer promote this idea that masterbation is a sin as there can much greater sins a teenager or adult can commit and therefore i would be sure god is more worried for more important sins yet to be commited.

GOD BLESS JOE.
why is it not a sin? the church says it is,

as i said in my previous 2 posts, it’s not the act itself that is so sinful, but the intention connected with that act, and the lust,
and in this case, the intention is for the enjoyment of the sexual pleasures reserved for husband and wife, and as we know, lust is “intense sexual desire or appetite”
but i am not going to repeat myself a third time, just read my last posts.

although besides that, masturbation is most certainly not a lesser sin, it is a mortal sin just as much as any other mortal sin, and the degree really doesn’t matter, because death of the soul is death of the soul, it doesn’t matter what kills you, because the fact still remains that you’re dead!

and even if that were true(which it’s not) one sin being lesser than another shouldn’t make you more accepting of it, if you love God you wouldn’t want to commit the least sin,
and by your logic, since murder is worse than stealing, i guess stealing isn’t a sin right? well the obvious answer is no, it’s still a sin, even though murder is worse, and you will go to hell for both.
and how is masturbation respecting your body? you are a temple of the Holy Ghost, you are to respect God above your body, even to the point of death, don’t lose site of your true goal and purpose in this life, we should indeed have respect for our bodies, but also dignity! modesty, purity.

before you ask someone to stop teaching this is a sin, why not learn why it’s a sin? learn what purity is, and what lust is, this is the definition of lust according to the church - “An inordinate desire for or enjoyment of sexual pleasure. The desires or acts are inordinate when they do not confirm to the divinely ordained purpose of sexual pleasure, which is to foster the mutual love of husband and wife and, according to the dispositions of providence, to procreate and educate their children.”
and as i said, we are tempted to evil, and inspired to good, if this is not a sin, then it should be easy to avoid, but you know that’s certainly not true,
all good things give glory to God, every good act, thought, word, and deed, works towards our purpose in life, which is to know, love, and serve God…masturbation only serves you, and turns away from God.
masturbation is a mortal sin, as are all sins of impurity, there are no venial sins of impurity, and that should really tell you how very much this sin is opposed to Gods law, God has absolutely no part of it, and does not take pity on it…
and sins of the flesh, more than any other sin, enslave you, no sin takes a stronger hold on you than this one, and no sin is harder to overcome once immersed in it…
if you think you are “free” to commit this sin, you are dead wrong, to commit it is an enslavement, you are trapped by it, how is that freedom?? true freedom is the ability to do what is right, not to do what you want!
we are weak to sin because we are slaves to our passions, but if, by the grace of God, we can get control of ourselves, then that is true freedom, our passions enslave us, because they prompt us to sin whether we want to or not, but being good is something we only do if we want to! that is freedom.

i don’t know where you get the idea that it is not a sin, but i’m sure you didn’t get that idea from God or His church, so perhaps you should rethink things, either pray to God to give you the answers, or seek help from a good priest, or research it from good catholic books(such as www.tanbooks.com ) or do all of those things…if you think it’s not a sin simply because you have failed in overcoming it yourself, then look for better ways of overcoming it, but don’t decide that it’s ok just because it’s difficult, alone it’s hard, but with God you can overcome it.
 
NOT A SIN!
Do you really think god thinks masterbation is a sin?!
As long as we respect our bodys then masterbation is no physical sin.
I ask people to no longer promote this idea that masterbation is a sin as there can much greater sins a teenager or adult can commit and therefore i would be sure god is more worried for more important sins yet to be commited.

GOD BLESS JOE.
If you can’t be faithful in these ‘small things’ how can you be faithful in larger things and ‘more important’ matters?

If you want to continue that line of reason that God is not worried about particular sins, why is He bothered about any sin whatsoever, since He can’t be emotionally disturbed or harmed in the divine nature. So sin!

Furthermore, the inability to conform yourself to a holy life on your own will certainly lead to other abuses of God’s gifts. Especially since you can sin simply by thought alone, no one gets hurts merely through that no?
 
why is it not a sin? the church says it is,

as i said in my previous 2 posts, it’s not the act itself that is so sinful, but the intention connected with that act, and the lust,
and in this case, the intention is for the enjoyment of the sexual pleasures reserved for husband and wife, and as we know, lust is “intense sexual desire or appetite”
but i am not going to repeat myself a third time, just read my last posts.

although besides that, masturbation is most certainly not a lesser sin, it is a mortal sin just as much as any other mortal sin, and the degree really doesn’t matter, because death of the soul is death of the soul, it doesn’t matter what kills you, because the fact still remains that you’re dead!

and even if that were true(which it’s not) one sin being lesser than another shouldn’t make you more accepting of it, if you love God you wouldn’t want to commit the least sin,
and by your logic, since murder is worse than stealing, i guess stealing isn’t a sin right? well the obvious answer is no, it’s still a sin, even though murder is worse, and you will go to hell for both.
and how is masturbation respecting your body? you are a temple of the Holy Ghost, you are to respect God above your body, even to the point of death, don’t lose site of your true goal and purpose in this life, we should indeed have respect for our bodies, but also dignity! modesty, purity.

before you ask someone to stop teaching this is a sin, why not learn why it’s a sin? learn what purity is, and what lust is, this is the definition of lust according to the church - “An inordinate desire for or enjoyment of sexual pleasure. The desires or acts are inordinate when they do not confirm to the divinely ordained purpose of sexual pleasure, which is to foster the mutual love of husband and wife and, according to the dispositions of providence, to procreate and educate their children.”
and as i said, we are tempted to evil, and inspired to good, if this is not a sin, then it should be easy to avoid, but you know that’s certainly not true,
all good things give glory to God, every good act, thought, word, and deed, works towards our purpose in life, which is to know, love, and serve God…masturbation only serves you, and turns away from God.
masturbation is a mortal sin, as are all sins of impurity, there are no venial sins of impurity, and that should really tell you how very much this sin is opposed to Gods law, God has absolutely no part of it, and does not take pity on it…
and sins of the flesh, more than any other sin, enslave you, no sin takes a stronger hold on you than this one, and no sin is harder to overcome once immersed in it…
if you think you are “free” to commit this sin, you are dead wrong, to commit it is an enslavement, you are trapped by it, how is that freedom?? true freedom is the ability to do what is right, not to do what you want!
we are weak to sin because we are slaves to our passions, but if, by the grace of God, we can get control of ourselves, then that is true freedom, our passions enslave us, because they prompt us to sin whether we want to or not, but being good is something we only do if we want to! that is freedom.

i don’t know where you get the idea that it is not a sin, but i’m sure you didn’t get that idea from God or His church, so perhaps you should rethink things, either pray to God to give you the answers, or seek help from a good priest, or research it from good catholic books(such as www.tanbooks.com ) or do all of those things…if you think it’s not a sin simply because you have failed in overcoming it yourself, then look for better ways of overcoming it, but don’t decide that it’s ok just because it’s difficult, alone it’s hard, but with God you can overcome it.
MY DEAR FRIENDs 🙂

I as a catholic know my church through teachings of my local priests and further reading i must say now that i can only say to you what i know sin to be through words of my local priests and the holy gospel in which they preach and teach. So please excuse me if my local priests and the gospel is not good enough of a knowledge to know what sin is. I must also say now that i really do not believe that we should have a debate on MASTERBATION as my point is mearly that in this modern world where sex and lust is everywhere in aspects of media, that due to this modern world of course it would be healthy for TEENAGERS to “commit the act” the church i know my catholic church from my experience of listening to elders and yet again i do say my local priest is that our youth must expect that they will experience masterbation through the years and yes you may call it lust and disrespect of the body which is a creation of god. BUT… i say again i do not call or see or believe that masterbation is a sin it may be an unhelathy habit to some level but again not a sin. As we must look at a bigger picture the modern world has everything to do with this matter and it is teenagers and our youth who this faces i really do believe in an all loving god and hence forth if others believe in an all loving god then you should see that god should i pray he will see that the world is fast changing, fast changing in people and the issues facing them and god being understanding will know that.

I most certainly would not encourage to promote such an IDEA to youth it would cause such damage!!

Youth need to understand their body and god but the fear tactics and promtion that masterbation is a sin then we will loose our youth to our church! 😦

Teach of gods love and understanding of modern issues facing teenagers do not scare them that they will be judged and damed for commiting a sin of masterbation.

So to everyone im open to more discusions.

GOD BLESS AGAIN 👍
JOE.
 
(post 1 of 2)

the world is indeed changing, and it’s horrible! do you know why the world is changing? because it is turning away from God, although it is nothing new, it has happened again and again throughout history, but not so much to this great degree.

but remember that God says - “For I am the Lord, and I change not”
God does not change, and neither does sin, because sin is where God is not, evil is the lack of God, and where God is not He can never be,
masturbation is a sin because it is lust, and it will always be lust, and lust is a sin and God will never have part of that, He cannot, it is impossible for God to be what is in it’s very essence a lack of Himself,

you have been taught very false things, you will not find such teachings in church approved books, or among the saints, or in the bible, in canon law, in catechism…

these things cannot change, it’s not a matter of choice, it’s simply impossible, and i would want it no other way, those sins of the flesh enslave you, they “war against the soul” why would God want to allow such a thing? it hurts you, it is bad for you, not just bodily, but mentally, and most important of all, spiritually, if you believe God would allow it, then you believe in a foolish and heartless God, not a loving one, why would a loving God permit something so harmful? and something that makes us turn away from Him?
how many people have fallen away from the church over these matters of sex? that doesn’t mean God is unfair, it means people make sex their god and are unwilling to give it up, if they really loved God more than sex, then they would be willing to give up masturbation even if it was good, simply for the sake of obedience!
that’s the big picture my friend, people make sex their god, people don’t want to please God, they want to please themselves,
but we were made for God, and we will only be truly happy and at peace with God, and no one knows that better than God Himself,
these sins turn us away from God, and take us further away from real happiness…

and just because it is a mortal sin does not mean we have to be uncharitable about it, we are commanded to admonish sinners and instruct the ignorant, but only in a gentle and loving way(or as is best), so what are you saying here "Youth need to understand their body and god but the fear tactics and promtion that masterbation is a sin then we will loose our youth to our church! 😦 "
i’ve never talked to a youth or anyone about this and had them fall away from the church, and i have talked to alot of youth, they have not gone away feeling despair, but instead hope! although i can’t say i’ve gotten through to all, but i have not left anyone hopeless, only at the most unsure(regarding Catholics)
so what you are saying is really not at all true, i am telling you from experience,
purity of the body is freeing and beautiful, and no we don’t need to “understand” our bodies, that’s social rubbish, did the youthful saints “understand” their bodies? no! and find me anyone happier than they were,
you think God would allow such a thing to be permitted? it would be cruel, because one thing leads to another, it does not stop at masturbation, the passion only grows and they only end up wanting more intense and exciting feelings, and so it is setting them up for greater sins, is that fair? that’s horrible…instead of teaching the youth how to be pure, they are being taught how to be lustful,
 
(post 2 of 2)

and you say here “Teach of gods love and understanding of modern issues facing teenagers do not scare them that they will be judged and damed for commiting a sin of masterbation.”
as if they can’t go to confession and repent? why do you see it as “if you commit this sin you go to hell” instead you should see it as, “if you do this you hurt Jesus, and yourself”, it is about love indeed, it is about us loving God, why not teach them how to love God? which we do in our every thought, word, and deed,
it’s one thing to learn how God loves us, but you must reach a point of learning to love God,

and you speak as if masturbation is something new, is there some reason it was condemned before even though many struggled with it, and now many more struggle with it and it’s not being condemned as well? the reason so many struggle with it now is because they’re not being taught,

the world is not really changing my friend, it is only becoming more sinful, do you think that because more and more people are sinning that it is cause for God to change? think about it…

and whose word would you listen to more?
here is what the church teaches, right off the Vatican’s website, in the “catechism of the catholic church” -
*
492. What are the principal sins against chastity?

2351-2359
2396

Grave sins against chastity differ according to their object: adultery, masturbation, fornication, pornography, prostitution, rape, and homosexual acts. These sins are expressions of the vice of lust. These kinds of acts committed against the physical and moral integrity of minors become even more grave. *

read it for yourself - vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

this part in particular i want you to think about - “These kinds of acts committed against the physical and moral integrity of minors become even more grave.”

that means, not just committing impure acts with minors, but teaching them about these acts, and teaching them it’s okay,

you don’t have to take my word for it, it’s right there plain as day,

but i don’t think the issue here is so much about whether this is a sin or not, it seems to me that the issue is your view of charity,
and the only answer i can give is, just get a real education,
for example, Fulton J. Sheen, although he’s been dead a long time, but his teachings are still alive and kicking - alabamacatholicresources.com/archbishop_fulton_j_sheen.html
you seem to treat the teaching of sin as the crime, rather than the sins themselves being the crime, but the real crime is that our children are not being taught their sins, and so they are being left defenseless, that is the real crime…they are being taught how to sin early in life, just to be told later in life that it’s wrong, by which time they will find it much harder to escape from than if they learned early on…

we are not just taught that certain things are sins, but also the remedies for them, or how to prevent ourselves from falling into them in the first place!
remember that God said the Holy Ghost would guide His church, and so it is the church you must believe, not just because they say so, but because of the great wisdom and love behind it,
if God is love, then God guided His church to this teaching out of love, if God teaches us that masturbation is a mortal sin, then it is only for our own good and great benefit, God knows best, He knows what is good for our souls, you cannot see your soul and the effect this sin has on it, and so you must put your trust in God,

you can have charity in all things, you can admonish sinners with love and leave them feeling loved, it doesn’t have to be about hell…

well i’ve gotten very off topic, but i hope this helps…and if you still don’t understand, then ask me questions, i want to help you understand, i’m not worried about debating, i just want to help you.
 
EMERALDWINGS
I thank you for your concern for me.
But again on this matter it will be wise to agree to disagree.

I have taken on board some of your words as i hope you have at least read a few of my words lets all keep this debate alive all most have a view on this matter.

The youth of his world are imporant in this matter of masterbation and it is them who need to be heard.

God bless 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top