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Namesake
Guest
By how much do you suppose that would reduce the Catholic population of the world then? I reckon a lot, from the people I know, intimately. Then I suppose you would subtract people who don’t believe in transubstantiation and people who don’t attend mass regularly, etc, but claim to be Catholic. How many do you suppose are left being real true Catholics?However, IMHO, I think there are some people in the world who misunderstand their own Catholic faith, and attempt to worship things. But that would be a sin, and isn’t Catholic.
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Why would i lie about my faith when it clearly says this in the catechism? :That is patently untrue. I know many Catholics who really do worship the statues. I understand that they are not to do that. Regardless, Catholicism lends itself toward idol worship. It’s so common.
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
Now you can see it clearly states we are not idol worshippers.
Again, with kissing a photo, kneeling before saints is NOT worshipping them! I dont know how much clearer i can be about this.
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Namesake
Guest
I am getting more sure all the time, and I am leaning well toward atheism. I have lernt a lot here to convince me that God doesn’t exist.I note from your profile that you are “unsure” of your religion.
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Namesake
Guest
That’s the standard line, but it isn’t convincing in light of all the apparent idol worship that I see and detect from conversation. Who am I to believe, you or my lying eyes?Now you can see it clearly states we are not idol worshippers.
Again, with kissing a photo, kneeling before saints is NOT worshipping them! I dont know how much clearer i can be about this.
C
CatsAndDogs
Guest
It’s “behaviors”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hisalone
At no time have I seen anyone correct these folks and if pictures of these types of beaviors are posted virtually every Catholic will defend this beavior.
Why?
There is no correction necessary if a person is praying TO God and/or asking for help from the prayers of the Saints.
Is the cross an “idol”? Is a picture of Jesus an “idol”? Is a crucifix an “idol”? Is a picture of a Saint ALWAYS an “idol”?
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Before we had Ipods, cell phones with cameras, and the internet we had statues, stained glass, paintings and icons. People who only can relate to what they “see” today have no perspective of the whole of history. Most people in the world today still cannot read or write. Even here in the USA we have a vast group of people who cannot read. I deal with them in my job. We even have people that read Bibles based on dead languages no longer spoken like in the AKJV of the Bible. I myself used to think ‘suffer’ meant to beat or hurt someone in the KJV. We never had a language class in Old English before Bible study.
The point is this. When a priest kisses the alter is he worshiping the alter? When he kisses the Bible is he worshiping the paper? When a preacher holds a Bible over his head and says this is Gods Word is he worshiping the book? When the Pope kisses the earth in countries he visits is he worshiping the dirt? No.
Kissing is a sign of love and repect. To remember a Saint and the great deads that they have done and to use them as a role model is a sign of great respect. To remember them.
Blessed Mary and the Saints are our role models and we should strive to follow their example of loyalty to God. People who cannot read can still learn the Sacred Scripture from the story and meaning told in a picture. Look at the walls of a Catholic Church with all the stories depicted on the walls and in the statues. One does not need to be able to read to to ‘see’ the story of the crucifixtion detailed in the stations of the cross.
Could that man kissing the pictures even read? A girl kneeling down to pray at night beside her bed is worshiping the bed or God?
Do not believe what anti-Catholics tell you, belive the Faith they preserve.
The point is this. When a priest kisses the alter is he worshiping the alter? When he kisses the Bible is he worshiping the paper? When a preacher holds a Bible over his head and says this is Gods Word is he worshiping the book? When the Pope kisses the earth in countries he visits is he worshiping the dirt? No.
Kissing is a sign of love and repect. To remember a Saint and the great deads that they have done and to use them as a role model is a sign of great respect. To remember them.
Blessed Mary and the Saints are our role models and we should strive to follow their example of loyalty to God. People who cannot read can still learn the Sacred Scripture from the story and meaning told in a picture. Look at the walls of a Catholic Church with all the stories depicted on the walls and in the statues. One does not need to be able to read to to ‘see’ the story of the crucifixtion detailed in the stations of the cross.
Could that man kissing the pictures even read? A girl kneeling down to pray at night beside her bed is worshiping the bed or God?
Do not believe what anti-Catholics tell you, belive the Faith they preserve.
C
CatsAndDogs
Guest
How do you detect, where seeing is an instance of detecting, idol worship?That’s the standard line, but it isn’t convincing in light of all the apparent idol worship that I see and detect from conversation. Who am I to believe, you or my lying eyes?
What is an “idol”? What is “worship”?
V
VociMike
Guest
What is idolatry? Why does God forbid it?Last week I went to visit my father in a nursing home. When I got there I asked him if there is anywhere he wanted to go? He said to church so I took him to the church we went to when I grew up but sadly it was locked even though it was the middle of the day. A gardner saw us and said we could go to the perpetual adoration chapel which was open.
My father and I went inside where the monstance was front and center with little kneeling pews and maybe 4 other people there. Im not going to argue about the monstance and the whole getup although I do believe it to be idolatry however I understand that Catholics believe it is not idolatry because of their beliefs.
The point of this post is there was one man maybe forty who had a dozen or so pictures of everything to the holy face of Jesus, Divine mercy, Virgin Mary. This man held these pictures as if they cards up to his face as he prayed, he also put some of the cards on the seat in front of him spread out so he could see them as he prayed at times he touched the pictures to his forehead.
I have been to many of the Catholic devotions throughout the years and there are some folks like this man tat are definitely over the top. At no time have I seen anyone correct these folks and if pictures of these types of beaviors are posted virtually every Catholic will defend this beavior.
Why?
D
dolphinlove
Guest
Do you clearly hear what these people are saying in their prayers?That’s the standard line, but it isn’t convincing in light of all the apparent idol worship that I see and detect from conversation. Who am I to believe, you or my lying eyes?
Do you hear them say something hypothetically like:
Dear Mum,
I want a bike for christmas, please supply me with one.
Thank you
Amen?
G
graceandglory
Guest
I suppose the same could be said of all Baptists, or all Presbyterians, or all Anglicans, or all Protestants too.By how much do you suppose that would reduce the Catholic population of the world then? I reckon a lot, from the people I know, intimately. Then I suppose you would subtract people who don’t believe in transubstantiation and people who don’t attend mass regularly, etc, but claim to be Catholic. How many do you suppose are left being real true Catholics?
We are responsible for our own selves come Judgment Day when we stand before the throne of God to give an account.
G
graceandglory
Guest
Didn’t King David do just that very thing in the OT? “Man looks on the outward appearances, but God looks at the heart.”And if he was dancing naked around a fire shouting into the air
.
.
would you have an opinion as to his worship? Or are you all accepting?
N
Namesake
Guest
Not likely since the conversation was about Catholics, especially Catholics who worship idols and Catholics who just plain do not understand the faith. Bringing in other denominations hardly exempts Catholics.I suppose the same could be said of all Baptists, or all Presbyterians, or all Anglicans, or all Protestants too.
We are responsible for our own selves come Judgment Day when we stand before the throne of God to give an account.
G
graceandglory
Guest
And I think protestantism leads to idol worship. What do you call it when the crowd is all raising their arms praising the band at church? Looks like idol worship to me.That is patently untrue. I know many Catholics who really do worship the statues. I understand that they are not to do that. Regardless, Catholicism lends itself toward idol worship. It’s so common.
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Namesake
Guest
The dancing naked around a fire, etc must be just hunky dory for Catholics. Try suggesting that to your pastor.Didn’t King David do just that very thing in the OT? “Man looks on the outward appearances, but God looks at the heart.”
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Namesake
Guest
For me, I call it nuts! Probably not idol worship, but nuts nevertheless.And I think protestantism leads to idol worship. What do you call it when the crowd is all raising their arms praising the band at church? Looks like idol worship to me.
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Hello Namesake,
Worship is not kissing pictures, praying to status etc. Worship is sacrifice. And the only sacrifice that God is looking for is for us to offer Jesus as our sacrifice.
Idolatry is when you engage in a lifestyle that prevents you from offering Jesus as the sacrifice for your sins.
Worship is not kissing pictures, praying to status etc. Worship is sacrifice. And the only sacrifice that God is looking for is for us to offer Jesus as our sacrifice.
Idolatry is when you engage in a lifestyle that prevents you from offering Jesus as the sacrifice for your sins.
J
JRKH
Guest
This is a good question. It is difficult to have a valid discussion until the terms are agreed upon.What is idolatry? Why does God forbid it?
Peace
James
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dolphinlove
Guest
Namesake,
I asked you a hypothetical question on the last page, what do you think about that?
I asked you a hypothetical question on the last page, what do you think about that?
G
graceandglory
Guest
What is idolatry?
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith.** Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, **whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration.** Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God.**"47
CCC vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm
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