Why is this not idolatry?

[JRKH]

I am getting more sure all the time, and I am leaning well toward atheism. I have lernt a lot here to convince me that God doesn’t exist.

I am sorry to hear that.
Of course I don’t believe that atheism is classed as a religion.

It is obvious that you are convinced that the behavior described in the OP is, in fact, idolatry. How do you define idolatry which your basis for this judgement?

Peace
James

 

[Namesake]

Namesake,
I asked you a hypothetical question on the last page, what do you think about that?

Excuse me, but, your verbosity overwhelms my ability to sort out just what you wanted me to reply to. Have at it again if you don’t mind.

 

[graceandglory]

This is a good question. It is difficult to have a valid discussion until the terms are agreed upon.

Peace
James

That is where all discussions should begin.

Terms to agree upon:

Worship
Prayer
Sacramentals
The Communion of Saints

 

[Namesake]

How do you define idolatry which your basis for this judgement?

Idolatry is the worship of idols, I suppose.

 

[JRKH]

Idolatry is the worship of idols, I suppose.

I guess now you need to define Idols and worship for me.

Peace
James

 

[PaulDupre]

He kissed the picture, I assume a photo. He didn’t kiss the person. He is worshiping the picture.

So, by your reasoning, a lonely soldier stationed in Iraq is cheating on his wife when he kisses his wife’s picture?

Or do you believe that the host *is Jesus?

Of course. All we Catholics believe that.

God love you,
Paul

 

[Namesake]

I guess now you need to define Idols and worship for me.

Oh come now. Deconstruction will not produce significant material for discussion and I would sure hope that you understand that. We really don’t have to define the meaning of “is” do we? This is supposed to be a grown up web site and it doesn’t seem all that grown up to parse meanings. Why don’t you just consult a dictionary instead.

 

[Namesake]

So, by your reasoning, a lonely soldier stationed in Iraq is cheating on his wife when he kisses his wife’s picture?

Of course. All we Catholics believe that.

Unbelievably ridiculous.

 

[dolphinlove]

I was asking you about the people you claim to be idol worshippers and asked you this hypothetically:
Do you clearly hear what these people are saying in their prayers?
Do you hear them say something hypothetically like:
Dear Mum,
I want a bike for Christmas, please supply me with one.
Thank you
Amen?

 

[PaulDupre]

I know many Catholics who really do worship the statues.

My (Edited) detector is going off.

 

[graceandglory]

I guess now you need to define Idols and worship for me.

Peace
James

Terms of Agreement:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latria
Latria: what we understand worship is, meant for God alone

**Dulia: **reverence, as unto Saints
Hyperdulia: a high amount of reverence, as unto the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos

When I was protestant, I studied a lot of Bible vocabulary and Hebrew and Greek root words. I did go to college to be a linguist/language teacher. A good beginning is to accept the fact that we don’t know all the definitions of words that have been in use for over 2,000 years, and to look them up when we don’t know what they are.

 

[graceandglory]

Oh come now. Deconstruction will not produce significant material for discussion and I would sure hope that you understand that. We really don’t have to define the meaning of “is” do we? This is supposed to be a grown up web site and it doesn’t seem all that grown up to parse meanings. Why don’t you just consult a dictionary instead.

Please see my previous post. People divide and start wars over things like not agreeing on definitions, or assuming you mean one thing when you really mean something else.

 

[twosweetgirls]

My (Edited) detector is going off.

Indeed–and my AgnosTheist detector is going off, too.

 

[ibkc]

Namesake, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you personally know “many” Catholics who have informed you that they are worshiping statues. But it would be nice if you would give us the benefit of the doubt and try to understand that it isn’t Catholic teaching, and also that when someone tells you they’re NOT worshiping statues it is very rude to stamp your foot and yell, “Yes you are! You ARE worshiping statues!” You have absolutely no ability to see into the hearts and minds of others. And your insistence in this thread that the fact that I have a statue of Mary and that I meditate on holy cards means I am worshiping the statue and the holy cards is earning you a fast ticket onto my ignore list.

 

[Namesake]

Please see my previous post. People divide and start wars over things like not agreeing on definitions, or assuming you mean one thing when you really mean something else.

It’s really pretty simple. Some people really are convinced that Catholics worship idols. That doesn’t mean they are correct, but it does mean they really believe that. We won’t ever agree on that issue, but still, lots of people are convinced. I am one such person.

 

[dolphinlove]

My (Edited) detector is going off.

I feel the same way, but its still worth to challenge these poor misguided… um… people.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Oh come now. Deconstruction will not produce significant material for discussion and I would sure hope that you understand that. We really don’t have to define the meaning of “is” do we? This is supposed to be a grown up web site and it doesn’t seem all that grown up to parse meanings. Why don’t you just consult a dictionary instead.

Unbelievably ridiculous.

Namesake, I don’t think you’re interested in learning about “worship”, “idols”, and “idolatry”.

Are you just wasting our time?

Indeed–and my AgnosTheist detector is going off, too.

 

[Namesake]

Namesake, I don’t think you’re interested in learning about “worship”, “idols”, and “idolatry”.

Are you just wasting our time?

Probably…

 

[JRKH]

Oh come now. Deconstruction will not produce significant material for discussion and I would sure hope that you understand that. We really don’t have to define the meaning of “is” do we? This is supposed to be a grown up web site and it doesn’t seem all that grown up to parse meanings. Why don’t you just consult a dictionary instead.

Sir,
I am trying to understand your position.
You are not Catholic, indeed you appear at this time not even to be Christian. Yet you feel you are qualified to tell Catholics, on a Catholic Board, what is, or is not idolatry to Catholics. This seems rather presumptuous to me.

Now I am willing to look at this point with you but need to see whether your definitions and ours match. I cannot do this with a Dictionary because a dictionary won’t tell me how YOU define these terms.

Peace
James

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Probably…

It’s interesting that you responded to this post of mine, but not my earlier one.

Bye bye for now.