Why is this not idolatry?

[graceandglory]

Namesake, I don’t think you’re interested in learning about “worship”, “idols”, and “idolatry”.

I think you’re just wasting our time.

Here’s how I see it. “I planted, Apollos watered, but God causes the growth.” St. Paul said that someplace in the one of his letters. It’s not a waste of my time to plant seeds of faith. If someone doesn’t convert, it’s not my fault, I have received practice in defending my faith, and perhaps seeds got planted. We may never know, but I’m not going to try to judge someone’s motives for posting in a Catholic forum. Maybe it’s his last ditch effort to find Christ in the Catholic Church.

 

[dolphinlove]

Here’s how I see it. “I planted, Apollos watered, but God causes the growth.” St. Paul said that someplace in the one of his letters. It’s not a waste of my time to plant seeds of faith. If someone doesn’t convert, it’s not my fault, I have received practice in defending my faith, and perhaps seeds got planted. We may never know, but I’m not going to try to judge someone’s motives for posting in a Catholic forum. Maybe it’s his last ditch effort to find Christ in the Catholic Church.

Your point is valid and I agree with you, but i think Charles was just pointing out the fact that Namesake was pretty much just a ‘troll’.

 

[ufamtobie]

Last week I went to visit my father in a nursing home. When I got there I asked him if there is anywhere he wanted to go? He said to church so I took him to the church we went to when I grew up but sadly it was locked even though it was the middle of the day. A gardner saw us and said we could go to the perpetual adoration chapel which was open.
My father and I went inside where the monstance was front and center with little kneeling pews and maybe 4 other people there. Im not going to argue about the monstance and the whole getup although I do believe it to be idolatry however I understand that Catholics believe it is not idolatry because of their beliefs.
The point of this post is there was one man maybe forty who had a dozen or so pictures of everything to the holy face of Jesus, Divine mercy, Virgin Mary. This man held these pictures as if they cards up to his face as he prayed, he also put some of the cards on the seat in front of him spread out so he could see them as he prayed at times he touched the pictures to his forehead.
I have been to many of the Catholic devotions throughout the years and there are some folks like this man tat are definitely over the top. At no time have I seen anyone correct these folks and if pictures of these types of beaviors are posted virtually every Catholic will defend this beavior.

Why?

Hisalone, If i were to tell you that it is ok to look at a saraph serpent and you can be healed and not die would you believe me or would this be Idolatry to do so?

(Numbers 21: 6-9) In punishment the Lord sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit thepeople so that many of them died. Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you. Pray the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed to for the people, and the Lord said to Moses, "Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and anyone who has been bitten looks at it and he will RECOVER Moses, accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered.

Do you think God is contradicting himself regarding Idolatry? NO!

Hisalone, so the Body and Blood of our Lord is not Idolatry or any statue or pictures etc…

What is Idolatry is sitting at your computer and trying to do harm to the Catholic Church, to no avail of course, for the Lord said: “Not even the gates of hell can prevail aganist it.”

Your Father is a wise man, I know that the Lord is telling you something here, even via your father Our Lord wants you to visit him. also, that is why you are here at this Catholic Site. Even the Gardner an angel of light let you in

Ufamtobie

 

[allhers]

I would just like to point out one thing…
Anything that is put before the worship of God is idolatry.
Now, if I were in the presence of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus and I was worried about how someone else was praying, or anything else they were doing. I would be guilty of idolatry (putting somone else, even my own thoughts before the worship of HIM, right there Present in front of me.)
I’m sorry that some people don’t understand or have my beliefs but I truly pray that someday you will.
As far as I am concerned you, the OP were guilty of idoltry, however, since you don’t believe what I believe you probably won’t be held accountable for that. (but hey, I’m not God.) But please, leave people alone when they are praying, however they best deceided to get in contact with HIM, and don’t worry over how they are doing that. Okay?

 

[RC_Matt]

It’s really pretty simple. Some people really are convinced that Catholics worship idols. That doesn’t mean they are correct, but it does mean they really believe that.

Well, if they’re that worried about it, maybe they should put down the chick tracts and see what the Catechism has to say. They might even (GASP) ask a Catholic.

We won’t ever agree on that issue, but still, lots of people are convinced. I am one such person.

Good for you dude, the world’s full of ignorant bigots, you have lots of company.

Knock yourself out.

 

[JRKH]

I would just like to point out one thing…
Anything that is put before the worship of God is idolatry.
Now, if I were in the presence of the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus and I was worried about how someone else was praying, or anything else they were doing. I would be guilty of idolatry (putting somone else, even my own thoughts before the worship of HIM, right there Present in front of me.)
I’m sorry that some people don’t understand or have my beliefs but I truly pray that someday you will.
As far as I am concerned you, the OP were guilty of idoltry, however, since you don’t believe what I believe you probably won’t be held accountable for that. (but hey, I’m not God.) But please, leave people alone when they are praying, however they best deceided to get in contact with HIM, and don’t worry over how they are doing that. Okay?

Nicely Put. It really does boil down to the object of our worship and not any tools that we may use to help us.

Peace
James

 

[twosweetgirls]

Well, if they’re that worried about it, maybe they should put down the chick tracts and see what the Catechism has to say. They might even (GASP) ask a Catholic.

Good for you dude, the world’s full of ignorant bigots, you have lots of company.

Knock yourself out.

:clapping:

 

[ElizabethPH]

One would expect that kissing a picture is paying much attention to the picture, otherwise why kiss it? Is that worship of the picture? How can it not be? Of course it’s idolatry!

No I don’t think so. It is not worship of the picture or the person that the picture is of. My husband died I have a picture of him that was taken a couple days before he got sick …I touch that picture and I kiss it. I am remembering him, when I kiss it I am remembering how very much I miss him and love him. I’m not worshiping him or his picture.

 

[VociMike]

Oh come now. Deconstruction will not produce significant material for discussion and I would sure hope that you understand that. We really don’t have to define the meaning of “is” do we? This is supposed to be a grown up web site and it doesn’t seem all that grown up to parse meanings. Why don’t you just consult a dictionary instead.

This kind of dismissive reaction immediately causes me to suspect that you don’t want to have clear definitions on the table. Presumably because clear definitions would inhibit the sweeping statements you are prone to make regarding Catholicism.

 

[Namesake]

Well, if they’re that worried about it, maybe they should put down the chick tracts and see what the Catechism has to say. They might even (GASP) ask a Catholic.

Good for you dude, the world’s full of ignorant bigots, you have lots of company.

Knock yourself out.

Exactly the sort of comment that has driven me away from Catholicism. Perfect!

 

[CapaxDei]

And if he was dancing naked around a fire shouting into the air and waving huge feathered wings and tossing offerings on the fire…would you have an opinion as to his worship? Or are you all accepting?

That’s a silly question. Did you come here to be silly?

 

[allhers]

Exactly the sort of comment that has driven me away from Catholicism. Perfect!

Now why do I find this amusing? Could it be that in my entire life I have been called about every vile name a person could be called simply because I am Catholic??
Were they doing that so I would leave the Church that Jesus founded? Well, they failed miserably then.
Don’t ever let anyone keep you from Jesus and His Church.

 

[SIA]

Last week I went to visit my father in a nursing home. When I got there I asked him if there is anywhere he wanted to go? He said to church so I took him to the church we went to when I grew up but sadly it was locked even though it was the middle of the day. A gardner saw us and said we could go to the perpetual adoration chapel which was open.
My father and I went inside where the monstance was front and center with little kneeling pews and maybe 4 other people there. Im not going to argue about the monstance and the whole getup although I do believe it to be idolatry however I understand that Catholics believe it is not idolatry because of their beliefs.
The point of this post is there was one man maybe forty who had a dozen or so pictures of everything to the holy face of Jesus, Divine mercy, Virgin Mary. This man held these pictures as if they cards up to his face as he prayed, he also put some of the cards on the seat in front of him spread out so he could see them as he prayed at times he touched the pictures to his forehead.
I have been to many of the Catholic devotions throughout the years and there are some folks like this man tat are definitely over the top. At no time have I seen anyone correct these folks and if pictures of these types of beaviors are posted virtually every Catholic will defend this beavior.

Why?

First of all, this is not idolotry. These are really icons that the man had that would be considered by many including myself as windows to Heaven. They help us to visualize when we are praying and to enhance our thoughts and our intensity of thoughts when we pray. There is nothing wrong with it.

 

[juliamajor]

Why would someone turning towards atheism give a damn if Catholics worship idols or not?i don’t know any atheists that worry about the subject at all-.every religion to them is primitive hoo-doo.They don’t have rankings as to whose hoo- doo is less idolatrous . Simply silly and unbelievable.Repentance is good for the soul namesake- so is the truth!

 

[Kevin42]

Last week I went to visit my father in a nursing home. When I got there I asked him if there is anywhere he wanted to go? He said to church so I took him to the church we went to when I grew up but sadly it was locked even though it was the middle of the day. A gardner saw us and said we could go to the perpetual adoration chapel which was open.
My father and I went inside where the monstance was front and center with little kneeling pews and maybe 4 other people there. Im not going to argue about the monstance and the whole getup although I do believe it to be idolatry however I understand that Catholics believe it is not idolatry because of their beliefs.
The point of this post is there was one man maybe forty who had a dozen or so pictures of everything to the holy face of Jesus, Divine mercy, Virgin Mary. This man held these pictures as if they cards up to his face as he prayed, he also put some of the cards on the seat in front of him spread out so he could see them as he prayed at times he touched the pictures to his forehead.
I have been to many of the Catholic devotions throughout the years and there are some folks like this man tat are definitely over the top. At no time have I seen anyone correct these folks and if pictures of these types of beaviors are posted virtually every Catholic will defend this beavior.

Why?

I cannot know this man’s heart, but it is my worry that people like this may be doing this out of personal psychological needs. A person who is overwhelmed with signs of devotions (pictures, medals, crucifixes, scapulars, statues, etc.), probably, they are putting their own defensiveness, needfulness, and dependency in devotion. Sometimes, these people think that by their devotions, they will then twist the hand of God. Others “hide behind” their knowledge in devotions and in their faith to avoid reality.

However, there is no way for us to tell how this man is being effected. At the same time, he may indeed be being brought into fuller communion with our Lord and by our Lord’s grace through these devotions, living a more Christian life.

 

[Milliardo]

That is patently untrue. I know many Catholics who really do worship the statues. I understand that they are not to do that. Regardless, Catholicism lends itself toward idol worship. It’s so common.

Unless you think Jesus is a false god, then it is not idol worship. Idols are representations of false gods. Anything that is made to be over and above Jesus would then be an idol–a false god. Money can then be an idol. However, there is nothing in Orthodox and Catholic teaching that makes the saints and their representations as gods–hence, the premise falls flat because in the first place, it is not taught anywhere that such are gods. Only Jesus is Lord.

 

[Steven_John]

Last week I went to visit my father in a nursing home. When I got there I asked him if there is anywhere he wanted to go? He said to church so I took him to the church we went to when I grew up but sadly it was locked even though it was the middle of the day. A gardner saw us and said we could go to the perpetual adoration chapel which was open.
My father and I went inside where the monstance was front and center with little kneeling pews and maybe 4 other people there. Im not going to argue about the monstance and the whole getup although I do believe it to be idolatry however I understand that Catholics believe it is not idolatry because of their beliefs.
The point of this post is there was one man maybe forty who had a dozen or so pictures of everything to the holy face of Jesus, Divine mercy, Virgin Mary. This man held these pictures as if they cards up to his face as he prayed, he also put some of the cards on the seat in front of him spread out so he could see them as he prayed at times he touched the pictures to his forehead.
I have been to many of the Catholic devotions throughout the years and there are some folks like this man tat are definitely over the top. At no time have I seen anyone correct these folks and if pictures of these types of beaviors are posted virtually every Catholic will defend this beavior.

Why?

Peace be with you,
I confess i have not read the whole thread sorry if this has been offered to you.

I would have waited till the man had finished, and outside i would have asked if he could spend a little time chatting with me.

I would have commented that his prayer seemed of great devotion and would he share with you about it to deepen your own life.

if he said he was worshiping the pics i would have very gently offered my understanding of idolatry.

now i know people may think this would be seen as rude or difficult but trust if you pray to the Father in your heart as Jesus (pbwh) taught
and ask Him that you and the man be like Jesus (pbwh) to each other so to genuinely help each other it will all be sweet.
of course you need to do this genuinely by emptying your pre conceived notion that he is practicing idolatry

May God bless and guide you as you submit unto Him.

 

[VociMike]

Exactly the sort of comment that has driven me away from Catholicism. Perfect!

Why in the world would you let mere comments drive you away from something you believed reflected the fullness of God’s revelation to humanity?! Surely the truth of your rejection of the truth of Catholicism is deeper than “comments”.

 

[JRKH]

Exactly the sort of comment that has driven me away from Catholicism. Perfect!

For my personal take, I am sorry that the “Bigot” statement was made. However I have no control over what others post here.

I do find it interesting though that you seem to pick and choose who, and what you will respond to.
You, as a non-catholic presume to tell Catholics what is and is not idolatry within a Catholic context.
Then, when someone tries to engage you on the subject in relation to terms and definitions, you get snitty at them about “Deconstruction”.

I and many others here would be happy to discuss this with you if you are willing to engage in actual give and take.
If you prefer to just “announce your decisions”, as it were, there can be no fruitful interchange.

As to your being “Driven away from Catholicism by some Catholics”, may I suggest that - No one becomes Catholic based on personalities of other catholics. They become Catholics because they are convicted of the Truth of the Catholic Fatih.

Peace
James

 

[vocatio]

Exactly the sort of comment that has driven me away from Catholicism. Perfect!

Understanding how you feel about angry comments. We ALL do it from time to time depending on our mood. Sometimes people just get on our nerves.

But by your own admission, you would have separated yourself from Peter because of Jusas’ example. If you follow this trend soon you’ll be all alone.