Why is unchastity a mortal sin?

[MilesVitae]

I don’t really understand what makes something a mortal sin - or, perhaps more accurately, what makes something grave matter (yes, I know what the three conditions for committing a mortal sin are - that’s not what I am talking about).

Supposedly mortal sin is something which turns us away from our final end, namely God. But, how does something turn us away from that end? This seems very unclear in certain cases - sexual sin in particular. Why is sexual sin grave? How is it incompatible with love for God? How does fornicating, say, or masturbating entail a turning away from God as our final end?

Saying “God commanded us not to do it” seems a weak response, since God does not command arbitrarily - the moral law is not merely a list of commandments from God. It is something coherent - it seems to me we ought, in principle, to be able to show that a particular activity turns us away from our final end, rather than merely saying “Well, God made it serious matter.”

By the way, I am not/I trying to justify sexual immorality on my part or others.

 

[MilesVitae]

I posted this in the moral theology forum, but then it occurred to me that this might be a more suitable location.

I don’t really understand what makes something a mortal sin - or, perhaps more accurately, what makes something grave matter (yes, I know what the three conditions for committing a mortal sin are - that’s not what I am talking about).

Supposedly mortal sin is something which turns us away from our final end, namely God. But, how does something turn us away from that end? This seems very unclear in certain cases - sexual sin in particular. Why is sexual sin grave? How is it incompatible with love for God? How does fornicating, say, or masturbating entail a turning away from God as our final end?

Saying “God commanded us not to do it” seems a weak response, since God does not command arbitrarily - the moral law is not merely a list of commandments from God. It is something coherent - it seems to me we ought, in principle, to be able to show that a particular activity turns us away from our final end, rather than merely saying “Well, God made it serious matter.”

 

[TechMan]

Aside from the fact that the 10 Commandments say so, the reason sexual sin is serious matter is that whenever a woman has sex, she’s putting her entire future on the line. She may not realize it. She may deny it. She may know it and be willing to do it. But she can’t get away from it. She may get pregnant, which fundamentally changes who she is. She may get a sexually transmitted disease which will affect her ability to have children. Or she may not. But what is true, whether or not she admits it, is that sexual intercourse will change her forever, in a very deep and profound way. She puts her entire self out there. And the only thing that justifies a man accepting that from her is if he puts his entire future on the line, too. That’s what we call marriage. Anything less is an injustice to her, and an abuse of her deepest being. Just because she agrees to it doesn’t make it OK.

BTW, it goes the other way around, too. I just chose to take that perspective because it is a little clearer.

I know there will be those who say I’m wrong about this. But as St. Josemaria says… *"‘Purity?’ they ask. And they smile. They are the ones who go on to marriage with worn-out bodies and disillusioned souls." *

 

[MilesVitae]

And what of masturbation?

 

[MidnightSun12]

I think the key is to remember that human beings are temples of the Holy Spirit. When you commit sexually immoral activity with yourself or with somebody else then you are taking that temple and defiling it in the worst way possible. To make matters worse, obscene amounts of pleasure is generally experienced by the sinner when sexual sin occurs. Even the money changers in the temple who Jesus condemned with the full force of His righteous indignation did not experience the kind of pleasure from their desecration of the house of God that fornicators do when they have pre-marital sex.

It’s enormously offensive to God when people abuse/defile holy objects even when no significant pleasure is experienced as a result… Imagine how devastating it must be to God to see His holiest of earthly objects (our bodies) being desecrated in such a way and the unparalleled amount of pleasure that is usually experienced by the sinners who are committing the acts??

 

[Robert_Sock]

I posted this in the moral theology forum, but then it occurred to me that this might be a more suitable location.

I don’t really understand what makes something a mortal sin - or, perhaps more accurately, what makes something grave matter (yes, I know what the three conditions for committing a mortal sin are - that’s not what I am talking about).

Supposedly mortal sin is something which turns us away from our final end, namely God. But, how does something turn us away from that end? This seems very unclear in certain cases - sexual sin in particular. Why is sexual sin grave? How is it incompatible with love for God? How does fornicating, say, or masturbating entail a turning away from God as our final end?

Saying “God commanded us not to do it” seems a weak response, since God does not command arbitrarily - the moral law is not merely a list of commandments from God. It is something coherent - it seems to me we ought, in principle, to be able to show that a particular activity turns us away from our final end, rather than merely saying “Well, God made it serious matter.”

Sex is a ‘sacred act’ between husband and wife. Under any other condition defiles this sacred act.

 

[Michael1985]

When two people have sex they can create a human being, a soul that will outlast the universe. This decision should never be taking lighly and it should be given the greatest respect. Masturbation, increases your sexual desires making it more likely that you will do something that is hardly the best for an imortal soul.

 

[MilesVitae]

I think the key is to remember that human beings are temples of the Holy Spirit. When you commit sexually immoral activity with yourself or with somebody else then you are taking that temple and defiling it in the worst way possible.

I don’t think sexual immorality is the worst possible form of defilement of the body. Are not suicide, mutilation, and murder far more serious defilements of the body? I think sometimes we exaggerate the evil of sexual sin. Please don’t misunderstand me. I am not trying to suggest it isn’t a serious matter - I believe it is grave matter, hence the reason I am asking my question. However, I do agree with the Catholic philosopher Josef Peiper, who thinks that Christians frequently exaggerate its seriousness in itself, and in comparison to other areas of morality.

Furthermore, you aren’t showing why it is such a grave misuse of the body - it seems that your argument assumes that it is a grave defilement. I’m asking why it is grave. More specifically, I am asking how it turns us away from God as the end, the purpose, of our lives? More generally, I am asking what it means for something to turn us away from God as our final end - that is, what determines grave matter?

To make matters worse, obscene amounts of pleasure is generally experienced by the sinner when sexual sin occurs. Even the money changers in the temple who Jesus condemned with the full force of His righteous indignation did not experience the kind of pleasure from their desecration of the house of God that fornicators do when they have pre-marital sex.

It’s enormously offensive to God when people abuse/defile holy objects even when no significant pleasure is experienced as a result… Imagine how devastating it must be to God to see His holiest of earthly objects (our bodies) being desecrated in such a way and the unparalleled amount of pleasure that is usually experienced by the sinners who are committing the acts??

I’m not sure to what extent the amount of pleasure experienced could make it grave (have to think more about that), unless one is deliberately taking pleasure in the fact that they are doing something immoral - that is to say, enjoying it because it is immoral.

 

[MidnightSun12]

Furthermore, you aren’t showing why it is such a grave misuse of the body - it seems that your argument assumes that it is a grave defilement. I’m asking why it is grave. More specifically, I am asking how it turns us away from God as the end, the purpose, of our lives? More generally, I am asking what it means for something to turn us away from God as our final end - that is, what determines grave matter?

God created our bodies to be used in a certain way. Just like how the money changers in the temple defiled a sanctuary of God by using it in a way that God did not intend for it to be used, aldulterers abuse a holy temple of God by using their bodies for purposes that they were not designed for.

I’m not sure to what extent the amount of pleasure experienced could make it grave (have to think more about that), unless one is deliberately taking pleasure in the fact that they are doing something immoral - that is to say, enjoying it because it is immoral.

Taking pleasure in committing vile sexual acts with someone is the same thing as taking pleasure in crucifying our Lord. Treating somebody as an object is contrary to love and God exists in the least of our neighbours. To show selfishness to somebody is the same thing as showing selfishness to our Lord. Those who take great pleasure in such selfish activities are guilty that much more evil.

I hope this helps!

 

[NeedImprovement]

I don’t think sexual immorality is the worst possible form of defilement of the body. Are not suicide, mutilation, and murder far more serious defilements of the body? I think sometimes we exaggerate the evil of sexual sin. Please don’t misunderstand me. I am not trying to suggest it isn’t a serious matter - I believe it is grave matter, hence the reason I am asking my question. However, I do agree with the Catholic philosopher Josef Peiper, who thinks that Christians frequently exaggerate its seriousness in itself, and in comparison to other areas of morality. . .

I’m not too well read on Josef Peiper , but am a little more informed on moral relativism. I believe what you appear to be presenting would have a subtle wrapping of moral relativism to it. Perhaps you aren’t able to see it. Furthermore you are saying two distinct things:

1.Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in itself.

2.Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in comparison to other areas of morality.

Could you confirm for us that this is what you meant to say, because it is what you have written ? It would be additionally helpful to know who is meant by “Christians” - do you mean to imply the Magisterium ?

You believe Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in itself.
You believe Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in comparison to other areas of morality . . . which essentially means you are proposing downplaying it in all areas as opposed to “exaggerating” it (unless you can identify for us us each Christian you’re implying here) ; all of which makes it considerably difficult to see (even with squinting ) how it can be simultaneously claimed :

I believe it is grave matter,

Why would someone downplay sexual immorality if they thought it were a grave matter ?

What has been written is that you believe sexual immorality is a grave matter but that its graveness is frequently exaggerated (so then it isn’t grave). . . according to who ? According to what ?. . . : Yes, No ,Yes ,No:yup:,:nope:,. . . all grey - no black or white.

That’s what can happen when we argue in the abstract. To the point,clear and concise, it’s all there in Robert Sock’s post in one sentence :

Sex is a ‘sacred act’ between husband and wife. Under any other condition defiles this sacred act.

.

If the question were unmuddled and it were a serious answer you seek, then you need to come out of the abstract. The best answer you will ever have , the best answer I will ever have, will come from ourselves in the Confessional with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Sins can look kind of pretty when we erase the faces of its victims from the picture.

In my limited opinion: Apply some subjectivity , nuke Josef Peiper’s thinking for a minute and look at what our Blessed Lord Himself told us:

**Matt 5:27-28 **[NAB]

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Somehow, I don’t think our Blessed Lord was “exaggerating” on that one. He was trying to tell us that we need to look at our own hearts ; what’s going on in our own minds - to examine our own consciences in relation to these type of acts (and generally all others).

I just might be be willing to bet that in his “assessment” of “other” , um , “Christians” , Josef Peiper could well have forgotten to provide us with a sample of what goes on in his own private mind concerning these things, while he was thinking himself to have such a solid grip on what goes on in the minds of everyone else.

:doh2:

 

[1_with_God]

…“More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”

-Our Lady of the Rosary at Fatima-

 

[vames]

obscene amounts of pleasure is generally experienced by the sinner when sexual sin occurs.
(…)
the unparalleled amount of pleasure that is usually experienced by the sinners who are committing the acts??

How do you know that?

So if a girl has sex with her boyfriend just because he demands it from her and she experiences very little pleasure or no pleasure at all, is she less guilty? The amount of pleasure is THE element that determines the gravity of sin?

 

[NeedImprovement]

From: Modern Catholic Dictionary; Fr. John Hardon, S.J.

SEXUAL PLEASURE
The emotional satisfaction that arises from the movement of those organs and secretions that aid the act of procreation. This pleasure reaches its peak in a healthy man in the pleasure that accompanies the emission of seed, or in women and youths below the age of puberty in the diffusion of some secretion from the sexual glands. The Catholic Church holds that direct sexual pleasure outside marriage is gravely sinful and never admits of slight matter; indirect sexual pleasure may be either sinful or no sin at all. Direct sexual pleasure is desired and enjoyed in itself and is the privilege only of married partners between themselves. It is forbidden to the unmarried because such conduct would be contrary to the virtue of chastity. Indirect sexual pleasure is not sought for itself but arises from some other action that is performed for a good reason. If there is such a reason, the actions are not sinful, provided a person neither intends the sexual pleasure nor consents to it if spontaneously aroused

CHASTITY
The virtue that moderates the desire for sexual pleasure according to the principles of faith and right reason. In married people, chastity moderates the desire in conformity with their state of life; in unmarried people who wish to marry, the desire is moderated by abstention until (or unless) they get married; in those who resolve not to marry, the desire is sacrificed entirely.
Chastity and purity, modesty and decency are comparable in that they have the basic meaning of freedom from whatever is lewd or salacious. Yet they also differ. Chastity implies an opposition to the immoral in the sense of lustful or licentious. It suggests refraining from all acts or thoughts that are not in accordance with the Church’s teaching about the use of one’s reproductive powers. It particularly stresses restraint and an avoidance of anything that might defile or make unclean the soul because the body has not been controlled in the exercise of its most imperious passion. (Etym. Latin castus, morally pure, unstained.)

 

[NeedImprovement]

Excerpt:EPILOGUE from Christianity and Sexual Pleasure, Father John Hardon, S.J.

Epilogue

We began this teleconference by emphasizing the fact that Catholic Christianity considers the human body sacred. It was made by God as our Creator and was assumed by the Son of God in the Incarnation. I would like to close the conference by making this observation. It is unrealistic to even talk about sanctity, and impossible to achieve it unless we take sex seriously and see it as a measure of our desire to please God.

Not all have the same calling and not all receive the same grace from the Almighty. But no believer in Christ can become holy unless the sexual desires in his or her life are in harmony with the will of God. Or, put it another way, everyone who loves God knows we must live a chaste life according to our vocation. Chastity in every state of life is the norm of a person’s charity. Chaste people, whether married or single, whether priests, religious or the laity, are selfless people. They love God more than themselves and are therefore ready to prove their love; if they are married, by the grateful use of their powers of generation according to the divine will; and if they are called to celibacy, by the generous surrender of an experience that divine revelation compares to the enjoyment of Paradise.

If we shall all finally be judged by our practice of charity, it is not too much to say we shall also be judged by our practice of chastity. Why? Because only the pure of heart shall see God; all others will be excluded from the marriage feast that God has prepared for those who love Him.

But chastity has its reward already in this life, as anyone who sincerely tries to keep himself chaste can testify. It is not as though chastity were oppressive and sex indulgence exhilarating. Just the opposite. Chaste people are happy people; the unchaste are not happy. What a discovery for some people to make! That as they grow in self -mastery and use or sacrifice sex pleasure as God wants them to do; they grow in holiness, which is known to God alone. They also grow in happiness, which God wants us to have now as a foretaste of the heaven where “there will no longer be marriage or giving in marriage,” and which is our destiny in the life to come.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith: “Now according to Christian tradition and the Church’s teaching, and as right reason also recognizes, the moral order of sexuality involves such high values of human life that every direct violation of this order is objectively serious.” [Persona Humana, n. X.]

A mortal sin is an act that is so gravely immoral before God as to be entirely incompatible with true love of God and neighbor. An actual mortal sin includes sufficient culpability to take away the state of grace from the soul, and to deserve eternal damnation.

A venial sin is an act that is not so gravely immoral before God as to be entirely incompatible with true love of God and neighbor. An actual venial sin does not include sufficient culpability to take away the state of grace from the soul, nor to deserve eternal damnation. A venial sin is always in some way contrary to true love of God and neighbor, but to a substantially limited extent.

 

[Regina_Love]

I don’t really understand what makes something a mortal sin - or, perhaps more accurately, what makes something grave matter (yes, I know what the three conditions for committing a mortal sin are - that’s not what I am talking about).

Supposedly mortal sin is something which turns us away from our final end, namely God. But, how does something turn us away from that end? This seems very unclear in certain cases - sexual sin in particular. Why is sexual sin grave? How is it incompatible with love for God? How does fornicating, say, or masturbating entail a turning away from God as our final end?

Saying “God commanded us not to do it” seems a weak response, since God does not command arbitrarily - the moral law is not merely a list of commandments from God. It is something coherent - it seems to me we ought, in principle, to be able to show that a particular activity turns us away from our final end, rather than merely saying “Well, God made it serious matter.”

By the way, I am not

God’s ways bring life, healing, and hope. satan’s ways bring disease & death. You choose. A Mortal sin means choosing to follow the lies of satan over the truths of God! Mortal Sin cause body & spirtual death. Fornication ends with STD’s that cause death, and sterility. If even one man or woman becomes sterile you wipe out generations of people! Fornication leads to abortions; 2000 a year in my city! That’s a lot of death and broken hearts! Fornication leads to fatherless children, abandoned mothers, and poverty.

God created sex to bind a couple together for life, "That the two become one, as the Father & I are one! Spouses become one in their child. God wants us to join him in his mission to fill heaven and the world with people. The Family is how God wants us to be raised by a loving mom & dad, with brothers and sisters. We learn OTHERNESS instead of SELFishness. This is where we learn that WE are NOT the center of the universe. GOD IS! Only if we put God first will we live in harmony with how we are created to be.

Masterbation is complete selfishness! It is fueled by addictive behaviors, and pornography, which often leads to acting out with prostitution, or others. It teaches people to use and abuse others for SELFish gratification. It’s allll about INSTANT GRATIFICATION. Practicing instant gratification grows you into a person who is INCAPEABLE OF LIFE LONG LOVE FOR A SPOUSE, which leads to broken familes, and lost children.

God created us to love others with complete and total devotion. To cherish our spouses with enduring sacraficial love. When we follow Gods way and save sex for marriage, we develop skill during courtship which prepare us for life long love. We learn to communicate, and get to know our selves and our future spouse. We share our dreams and decide if we are compatable! Love is an action. Love does what is best for our spouse! Love is faithful, and welcomes children, the natural result of shared physical love.

We did it God’s way. Happily married 27 years!

 

[MidnightSun12]

How do you know that?

So if a girl has sex with her boyfriend just because he demands it from her and she experiences very little pleasure or no pleasure at all, is she less guilty? The amount of pleasure is THE element that determines the gravity of sin?

I think you have brought up a good point.

Obviously the amount of pleasure obtained from each specific act of immorality shouldn’t determine the wrongness of the sin (since the amount of pleasure derived depends on the disposition of one’s body at a given point in time). I think what matters more is how much a person’s interior appetite is affected by this pleasure.

Although, that said, I am starting to feel a bit unsure of this whole argument about pleasure determining the gravity of the sin… After doing some digging, I found that there may not be strong theological support for my argument and I would like to retract my previous statements as to not mis-lead anybody.

 

[MilesVitae]

I’m not too well read on Josef Peiper , but am a little more informed on moral relativism. I believe what you appear to be presenting would have a subtle wrapping of moral relativism to it. Perhaps you aren’t able to see it. Furthermore you are saying two distinct things:

1.Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in itself.

2.Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in comparison to other areas of morality.

Could you confirm for us that this is what you meant to say, because it is what you have written ?

You’re right - I don’t see the hints of relativism in my statement. In any case, though, my meaning was not relativistic.
In answer to your question, yes, I meant to say those two distinct things. To tell you the truth, the comment I made doesn’t express any systematically developed position on my part.

It would be additionally helpful to know who is meant by “Christians” - do you mean to imply the Magisterium ?

I wasn’t calling into doubt the Magisterial teaching on sexual morality, if that is what you are wondering.
I had in mind individual Christians, and a historical tendency, perhaps even found in the writings of theologians - like I said, though, it’s not an opinion I could present an organized exposition on.

For a specific example, consider the comment to which I was originally responding - MidnightSun’s comment that sexual sin is the worst possible defilement of the body. How can we possibly say that?

You believe Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in itself.
You believe Christians frequently exaggerate the seriousness of sexual morality in comparison to other areas of morality . . . which essentially means you are proposing downplaying it in all areas as opposed to “exaggerating” it (unless you can identify for us us each Christian you’re implying here) ;

I suppose it depends on what you mean by downplaying - I’m not suggesting we treat sexuality morality as unimportant. But, I notice an attitude which seems to see sexual sin as one of the worst possible forms of mortal sin - which I don’t think it is true.

What has been written is that you believe sexual immorality is a grave matter but that its graveness is frequently exaggerated (so then it isn’t grave)

When I say its gravity is exaggerated, that doesn’t mean that it is an exaggeration to say that it is grave… It is grave - it is a question of mortal sin. But, some mortal sins are more serious matters than others.

Somehow, I don’t think our Blessed Lord was “exaggerating” on that one. He was trying to tell us that we need to look at our own hearts ; what’s going on in our own minds - to examine our own consciences in relation to these type of acts (and generally all others).

I agree.

I just might be be willing to bet that in his “assessment” of “other” , um , “Christians” , Josef Peiper could well have forgotten to provide us with a sample of what goes on in his own private mind concerning these things, while he was thinking himself to have such a solid grip on what goes on in the minds of everyone else.

What are you suggesting here? Peiper is quite solid. If you’d like me to find the chapter in Peiper to which I was referring when I made my comment, I’ll gladly do so

 

[MilesVitae]

God created our bodies to be used in a certain way. Just like how the money changers in the temple defiled a sanctuary of God by using it in a way that God did not intend for it to be used, aldulterers abuse a holy temple of God by using their bodies for purposes that they were not designed for.

Of course! But, that doesn’t necessarily imply its grave matter. After all, gluttony involves using the body in a way which is contrary to its purpose. Most sins of gluttony aren’t grave, though (boy am I in trouble if they are).

Taking pleasure in committing vile sexual acts with someone is the same thing as taking pleasure in crucifying our Lord. Treating somebody as an object is contrary to love and God exists in the least of our neighbours. To show selfishness to somebody is the same thing as showing selfishness to our Lord. Those who take great pleasure in such selfish activities are guilty that much more evil.

Well, in that case, every sin would be grave if it involves some kind of enjoyment - any sins hurts Christ, including venial. It doesn’t follow that if we are enjoying the sin, it’s grave - unless, of course, one is taking pleasure in it precisely because it harms Christ. That would be horrendously evil.

 

[MilesVitae]

Thank you to those who have commented.

You bring up important points about the seriousness of sexuality.

However, what I was originally wondering about most specifically was the notion of mortal sin being something which turns us away from God as our final end (as opposed to venial sin being something which is compatible with God as our final end). I don’t really understand that criterion, if you will, as applied to specific cases in determining the gravity of an act. Perhaps I should have simply asked the question without getting into the question of sexual morality specifically.