Why is unchastity a mortal sin?

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Edward_H said:
So you agree masturbation is a grave offense, at both the basic level and the supernatural level?
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I have never said that I doubt that masturbation (and unchastity in general) is grave matter. I was not seeking to be convinced that it was grave, but merely to understand clearly why it is so. So far, I have not come to understand it at the level of clarity I would like - and if someone were to ask me why it was grave, I think I would be unable to give a very sound defense of the Church’s position.
 
MilesVitae said:
I have never said that I doubt that masturbation (and unchastity in general) is grave matter. I was not seeking to be convinced that it was grave, but merely to understand clearly why it is so. So far, I have not come to understand it at the level of clarity I would like - and if someone were to ask me why it was grave, I think I would be unable to give a very sound defense of the Church’s position.
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So willful misuse of function to seek pleasure by yourself is not compelling to or clear enough for you?
  • How does misuse of God’s gift give Him glory?
  • How does it advance His Kingdom?
  • How does it serve others?
  • How is it an offering to Him?
  • How does it bring souls to Him?
  • How is it not an offense against the dignity of your marriage or even the Sacrament of Marriage itself?
 
Edward_H said:
So willful misuse of function to seek pleasure by yourself is not compelling to or clear enough for you?
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No, it isn’t, actually. But I’ve already provided my reasons earlier in this thread.
  • How does misuse of God’s gift give Him glory?
  • How does it advance His Kingdom?
  • How does it serve others?
  • How is it an offering to Him?
  • How does it bring souls to Him?
  • How is it not an offense against the dignity of your marriage or even the Sacrament of Marriage itself?
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How does stealing a small amount of money give God glory?
How does it advance his Kingdom, serve others, make an offering to Him, bring souls to Him, and how is it not an offense against the dignity of the person against whom you are committing an injustice? And, yet, stealing a small amount is venial, not a mortal sin.

All, or at least many, venial sins fail on all these points (and I think, perhaps, many non-sinful actions fail on some of these points). So, no, this does not show why unchastity is grave.
Please read the rest of the thread if you want to see the discussion which we’ve already had on these matters.
 
MilesVitae said:
No, it isn’t, actually. But I’ve already provided my reasons earlier in this thread.

How does stealing a small amount of money give God glory?
How does it advance his Kingdom, serve others, make an offering to Him, bring souls to Him, and how is it not an offense against the dignity of the person against whom you are committing an injustice? And, yet, stealing a small amount is venial, not a mortal sin.

All, or at least many, venial sins fail on all these points (and I think, perhaps, many non-sinful actions fail on some of these points). So, no, this does not show why unchastity is grave.
Please read the rest of the thread if you want to see the discussion which we’ve already had on these matters.
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True, but You missed or rejected the point above about the preeminence of sex, as a means of self-donation. Maybe find some good resources on the Theology of the Body or work through Blessed John Paul’s original writing.

Consider why celibacy is so high a gift of self, vs not stealing! There is no vow for honesty…it’s assumed.

Good luck in your sincere search for a good answer.
 
I believe it has to do with the war between the Spirit and the flesh.

Galatians 5:16-26

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger,disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Romans 8:1-17

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry,“Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
 
I can understand where the OP is coming from. Our youth was taught to never drink or fornicate because these are the worst sins that one could commit. The funny thing is, that even after several conventions where we heard worst case scenarios, pregnancy, STDs and date rape, almost everyone started to lose their virginity. There are, if memory serves, only three left who are chaste and I am not amoung them. It seems the more the teachers hammered in that these were grave or mortal sins, the more curious we got. Now that I am older, I see how lucky I was. My boyfriend stuck around asserting that now we have to marry, so we got engaged as soon as was appropriate and will be married when we graduate. Many of my friends are still racking up their numbers, their self esteem dropping and their prospects of lasting relationships growing farther away. They see me as too good for their crowd, and I am osterasized. After all, now I’m too good for the party crowd but too bad for the pure crowd. This guilt and isolation feels like my worldly punishment. I hope to absolve it by marriage. I’m not Catholic after all, nor Baptist anymore. I feel like how they painted everything as evil from pants to fornication made us see the world as though they were just old farts not letting us have any fun. Not adults who knew better than us. I don’t know what they should do, but it seems like they’re not getting the message through by scaring kids. Once that first brave soul finds out it’s not scary and God doesn’t strike you dead, everyone follows. There has to be a way without exaggerating that we could get through to teenagers that it does make you feel dirty and ruins your self esteem. You suddenly can’t tell the truth to your parents and you’re always anxious someone will find out your secret. Even doing it “right”.
 
I do like the poster who asked how misuse of the gift of God gives Him glory. Now that I am Methodist the "don’t mention it and they won’t do it approach is being used. A guy from this church got a girl he was seeing for a one night stand pregnant. Obviously the two extremes aren’t working realistically but perhaps this approach of asking kids if they believe such misuse would bring glory toGod would spark a theological debate that could discourage more kids. Of course, some will always sin but almost all the youth of two churches? That seems to be a problem with their education.
 
dancingrain91 said:
I do like the poster who asked how misuse of the gift of God gives Him glory. Now that I am Methodist the "don’t mention it and they won’t do it approach is being used. A guy from this church got a girl he was seeing for a one night stand pregnant. Obviously the two extremes aren’t working realistically but perhaps this approach of asking kids if they believe such misuse would bring glory toGod would spark a theological debate that could discourage more kids. Of course, some will always sin but almost all the youth of two churches? That seems to be a problem with their education.
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If one wants to understand the magnitude of the animal attraction that causes one to forsake God, one need look no further than King David. As a boy, he’s willing to give up his life because some giant called God names. As a man, the first(?) time he sees a naked lady taking a bath, he beds her knowing it is adultery, then sends the husband to the front lines of battle to cover-up the offense. Perfect example of the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. I think the key is to convince young Christians that when they choose illicit sex, they are choosing to love yourself & others before God. To not choose illicit sex, one affirms their love of God over Man. Yes, God allows Man to have a strong, instinctive animal nature, but he demands love in the form of subduing that nature to turn to God with free will. The sex test is the put God first test.
 
Rharris10 said:
Still scary to me. haha.
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“Be not afraid”

But it is helpful for our spiritual life to occasionally take stock of 'the last things"…it can serve to sober us up to the reality of our life in God, and wash away frivolity.

Are we frequently in contact with God during our ordinary day?
Are we living a life of generous giving?
Do we let one hour pass without thinking of our Father?
Where can we be more giving in our family?

If you knew this Saturday were to be your last confession, how sincere would it be?

These sorts of ‘bumps’ or ‘impulses’ can help us stay closer to God, no?
 
Edward_H said:
“Be not afraid”

But it is helpful for our spiritual life to occasionally take stock of 'the last things"…it can serve to sober us up to the reality of our life in God, and wash away frivolity.

Are we frequently in contact with God during our ordinary day?
Are we living a life of generous giving?
Do we let one hour pass without thinking of our Father?
Where can we be more giving in our family?

If you knew this Saturday were to be your last confession, how sincere would it be?

These sorts of ‘bumps’ or ‘impulses’ can help us stay closer to God, no?
Click to expand...
True. But what about people like my mother. She got divorced, then remarried. It just worries me that people are in hell, and from what I have read about the “Lady of Fatima” ALOT of people are going to hell.
 
As a recovering pornography addict I think I have a pretty good handle on why unchastity is grave matter. Sexuality is a taste of immortality while still on Earth. Through procreation we live on in our children and grandchildren and lines beyond that. Look at how important children were in the Old Testament, and it was not all economic concerns! It’s a concern about legacy. Judaism has never really focused on what happens to our souls after we die, it’s been more about living on through our progeny.

Now think about how we taste eternal life here after the coming of Christ. Yes, we still do so through the “Old Covenant” of sexuality but there is also the taste of eternal life through oneness with God and the entire Mystical Body of Christ through the Eucharist. Would you not say that to misuse the Eucharist is grave matter? Why then is misusing the old covenant not grave matter?

Look, sexuality is all about giving. It’s the essence of life we give to one another. As a man, I can give of myself to my wife and we can create children. I give of the very essence that makes me… well… me! My wife and I become co-creators with God. We provide the physical matter, He provides the soul.

Sex has a bunch of arrows pointing from me and towards others. To my wife and to my children. When I abuse this gift, I take those arrows, turn them back around and point it at myself. Then it becomes all about me. About what I want or think I deserve. About the gratification I can receive. It takes what is supposed to be the most selfless gift of all (which is why God made it feel good in the first place… to encourage us to give!) and turn it into the most selfish acts possible. In the process, I skewer my own heart and soul with those arrows as they bend back around and go from me and back into me.

And if the arrows are only pointing from me and to me… then there’s no room for God. If they point away from me and to others, God has plenty of room to be present.

Sexual immorality may be common and it may be difficult to overcome, but it is extremely dangerous in that it can trap people in loops of pride and shame. When you focus your sexuality on yourself as long as I did, it takes big events to let God back into your life.
 
JamesATyler said:
I believe it has to do with the war between the Spirit and the flesh.

Galatians 5:16-26

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry,sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger,disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Romans 8:1-17

8 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry,“Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
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I’m not sure MilesVitae got the answer he was looking for, but these NT quotes really captured, IMHO, the “why”. I plowed through this somewhat rambling thread to find the relevant scriptural reference that referred to the sin of unchastity outside the confines of adultery. Thanks.
 
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