Why Islam ?

[Faith101]

exoflare:

Faith101:

How did the “Church” kill someone?

I actually learned that in my history class…but I forgot the details. Here is a site that lists some of the early scientist and what happened to them

huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sciencechristianity.htm

 

[discipleofJesus]

Ching_PBUH:

Strong Muslim forces swept through and overtook rich Persia, Spain, India… etc and inherited their civilisations, philosophies, findings, inventions as their own. They replaced the kuffars’ system of government with that of Islam and those Golden Geese that laid the golden eggs perished … thus ended the Golden Age of Islam … fortunately though! … and it has been like that ever after!

When Islam conquered most of the Christian lands of Asia and the Middle East and all of them on the north coast of Africa, including Egypt and with it Alexandria, part of the spoils of victory were small centers of Hellenistic scholarship, often Nestorian Christian, that continued for a while translating Greek philosophy into Syriac. Eventually most of the extant writings of Aristotle were translated into Arabic, generally via Syriac, sometimes via Hebrew, on rare occasions directly, together with influential pseudo-Aristotelian texts. These translations became the basis of the Aristotelianism of the Islamic world, which was innocent of the Greek of the original and of the originality of its author.

Such is, in short, the origin of what would become what Johns calls “the Arab contribution to Western culture” and Smith “one of the most significant and lasting contributions of the medieval Muslim world to Christendom.”

Excerpted from Jonathan David Carson ‘The not-so-golden age of Islamic philosophy’ americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4744

The “Islamic scholars” who translated “ancient Greece’s natural philosophy” were a curious group of Muslims, since all or almost all of the translators from Greek to Arabic were Christians or Jews, as were the translators from Arabic to Latin. Consider the astonishing statement of Bernard Lewis in The Muslim Discovery of Europe:

We know of no Muslim scholar or man of letters before the eighteenth century who sought to learn a western language, still less of any attempt to produce grammars, dictionaries, or other language tools. Translations are few and far between. Those that are known are works chosen for practical purposes [philosophy being considered a practical discipline] and the translations are made by converts [who knew western languages before conversion] or non-Muslims.

According to Franz Rosenthal in The Classical Heritage in Islam,

“Almost all of the translators [from Greek into Syriac or Hebrew or from Greek, Syriac, or Hebrew into Arabic] were Christians.”

One possible exception is Masarjawaih, who may have been a Jew. Another is Thabit b. Qurrah (ca. 834-901 A.D.), a “heathen” Sabian from Harran…

Were not Avicenna and Averroes great? Great they were, and philosophers too, but not exactly Islamic ones.

Excerpted from Jonathan David Carson, Ph.D. 'Hyping Islam ‘s role in the History of Science’ americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4685

 

[Ortho]

Fitz:

Ryan, I think this is sad. I believe that is what they might say, but women are second class there and I believe that this is one example. Bending over in long dresses and veils is not the same as mini skirts. I just am not buying it.

Weak imagination?

 

[Ortho]

MugenOne:

That’s true. The Arabs used to be leader in science and math. Then, came Islam and everything was haraam (anti-Allah). Alexandria’s library was burned down and everything was lost. Luckily, Christian monks copied and preserved most of the ancient works. Then, Islam started its slow decline. Instead of admitting its decline and solving problems within the Islam world, they blame it on infidel America. If the infidels are so bad, why are Muslims love everything infidel like movies, music, cars, etc?

Seriously, if the world was Islam, y’all be walking now. No fast car, no internet, no mobilephone, no computer, no Catholic Answer Forum, no space exploration, no Beethovan.

M1

Much of the work of the Greeks was preserved and reintroduced to Europe by Arabs. Irish monks also did the same. When both groups combined their works, Europe had much of what we have today.

The library at Alexandria was burned several times. I think the first was when Caesar was in alliance with Cleopatra. However, one of the subsequent burnings was led by a Christian bishop.

 

[Ortho]

Neverland:

In the past, there was a time when Christianity was mislead by blind devotion and forgot about LOVE. But we recovered and here we are now.

Sadly, Islam not only follows the mistake made by Christianity, it enhances the mistake.

You ask about the proof. How about logical proof?

Before Islam came to conquer Persia, Persia was among the most civilized nation. Given they keep up with their advancement, they could have achieve everything some hundred years faster than the western civilization.
But Islam came, and there was stagnation. And here we have Iran now. And I feel sad for those brave yet oppressed brave men and women, killed or tortured while nobody seem to care.

One might also say the west was in fine shape until Christianity. Then it descended into the dark ages. Does that argument make any sense?

 

[BryPGuy89]

deen:

Hi,

Thanks for replying. I don’t mind if you share those stuff. And what is the conversion rate from Islam to Catholism? I will also appreciate if you have stories of people who converted from Islam to Catholicism whose names are worth mentioning. I still have priests, pastors, ambassadors, former singer, etc to be posted later,God willing.

thx and peace,

deen

I don’t see why it makes any difference in who converts, a person is a person and none of us are more important or worthy than another to be mentioned.

 

[BryPGuy89]

GregoryPalamas:

Running airplanes into buildings and blowing innocent people up and enslaving women for sexual pleasure and Dhimma established by Muhammad himself and the murder of countless millions of Christians and Jews is not “negative propaganda against” Islam. It is the facts of history. Stop denying those things and start to straighten them out and you will be taken more seriously.

Dan L

I was seriously offended by this statement. First to associate Islam with terrorism is wrong, for those are not even considered by there own leaders as following their religion, women are not toys for sexual pleasure, quite the contrary they are protected and kept decent to prevent lust and sin of the sort, and finally, Jews and Christians have not been killed by muslims, there have been wars here and there and crusades but they are not and have never been widely killed by muslims, they promote peace and I would like to expect some kind of similar thing from you. You negatively speak of a people that you seem ignorant of.

 

[exoflare]

deen:

Hi,

Thanks for replying. I don’t mind if you share those stuff. And what is the conversion rate from Islam to Catholism? I will also appreciate if you have stories of people who converted from Islam to Catholicism whose names are worth mentioning. I still have priests, pastors, ambassadors, former singer, etc to be posted later,God willing.

thx and peace,

deen

Yeah, I can’t believe he’d have the gall to compare people like this. I’d love to see the reasoning behind giving more value to a person’s opinion because they were a “former singer”.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Neverland:

In the past, there was a time when Christianity was mislead by blind devotion and forgot about LOVE. But we recovered and here we are now.

Sadly, Islam not only follows the mistake made by Christianity, it enhances the mistake.

You ask about the proof. How about logical proof?

Before Islam came to conquer Persia, Persia was among the most civilized nation. Given they keep up with their advancement, they could have achieve everything some hundred years faster than the western civilization.
But Islam came, and there was stagnation. And here we have Iran now. And I feel sad for those brave yet oppressed brave men and women, killed or tortured while nobody seem to care.

That is like saying that in the long run some how Christianity can be directly at fault for the final fall of the Roman Empire. It could have been greater and who knows what could of happened if it never allowed Christianity, this view of yours is very biased.

 

[BryPGuy89]

melbourne_guy:

Hey deen, how long have muslims had to catch up, about 1000-1500 years and yous havent. Just because there is a burst in islam in this century how do you know it wont decline in the next?
The same thing happened when the beatles converted to hinduism, everyone followed, thats western society.
If its punishable to leave islam then how do you know just as many have left without informing authorities? Islams culture is arabic and you will see with the next world war that arabic and western culture dont mix. LOL muslims havent contributed anything to science for a very very very long time. Look at all the muslim countries, you’ll notice that they all have somtheing in common, there all poor and war torn.

To my understanding many Muslim countries are not poor, they have a different society and usually a monarchy, that may appear poor, but they hold the most money, profittable goods, and the world’s economy in their hands. It is actually the Allied forces from World War II fault for the war and unrestin the lands, we redefined their borders and mixed tribes, ethnicities, and cultures.

 

[discipleofJesus]

Ortho:

The library at Alexandria was burned several times. I think the first was when Caesar was in alliance with Cleopatra. However, one of the subsequent burnings was led by a Christian bishop.

I doubt the accuracy of this statement. Which bishop did this and when? What was his name? Where did you get this from?

The [Muslim] Arab general Amer ibin Alass at the orders of the [Muslim] Arab Caliph Omar ibin Alkhatab did the destruction of the library

“Scholars differed in views on how the ancient library of Alexandria was destroyed. However, recent research by Luciano Canfora concluded that the Arab general Amer ibin Alass at the orders of the Arab Caliph Omar ibin Alkhatab did the destruction of the library. The story of the Arabs destruction of the library indicates that it took them six months to burn the books in about one thousand public bathes in Alexandria.”
Excerpted from copts.net/history.asp#arab

 

[discipleofJesus]

discipleofJesus:

The [Muslim] Arab general Amer ibin Alass at the orders of the [Muslim] Arab Caliph Omar ibin Alkhatab did the destruction of the library

“Scholars differed in views on how the ancient library of Alexandria was destroyed. However, recent research by Luciano Canfora concluded that the Arab general Amer ibin Alass at the orders of the Arab Caliph Omar ibin Alkhatab did the destruction of the library. The story of the Arabs destruction of the library indicates that it took them six months to burn the books in about one thousand public bathes in Alexandria.”
Excerpted from copts.net/history.asp#arab

“Ignorance was then employed to safeguard men’s faith. This is clear from the Khalifah 'Umar’s commands regarding the libraries captured in conquered lands. Regarding the great library at Alexandria, Abdu’l Faraj tells us that, when 'Amr ibnu’l 'As conquered Egypt in A. D. 640, 'Umar was asked whether the library was to be preserved or not. In reply he said: “If these writings of the Greeks agree with the Book of God” (the Qur’an), “they are useless, and need not be preserved. If they disagree with it, they are pernicious, and ought to be destroyed.” Similarly, as we are informed in the Kashfu’z Zunun, Sa’d Abu Waqqas, having conquered Persia, wrote to ask the same Khalifah what he should do with the libraries of Persia. The reply was: “Cast them into the rivers. For, if in these books there is guidance, then we have still better guidance in the Book of God. If, on the contrary, there is in them that which will lead us astray, then may God protect us from them.” In each case the order was obeyed. Only in the time of the Mu’tazilah has any freedom of thought and inquiry been permitted in any Muslim land.”

From pp. 364-365, ‘Mizanu’l Haqq (The Balance of Truth)’
by C. G. Pfander, D. D.
Thoroughly Revised and Enlarged
by W. St. Clair Tisdall, M. A. D. D.
answering-islam.org.uk/Books/Pfander/Balance/p364.htm

 

[Neverland]

Dear BryPGuy89,

That is like saying that in the long run some how Christianity can be directly at fault for the final fall of the Roman Empire. It could have been greater and who knows what could of happened if it never allowed Christianity, this view of yours is very biased.

Oh. Christians in the past did make mistake - many of the power holder left the essense of Jesus’ teaching.
But Christians are better now. We use technology for creating a better life for human.
I take you are a moslem. So tell me the concept of Islamic State based on Quran and Hadiths.

Neverland

 

[BryPGuy89]

Neverland:

Dear BryPGuy89,

Oh. Christians in the past did make mistake - many of the power holder left the essense of Jesus’ teaching.
But Christians are better now. We use technology for creating a better life for human.
I take you are a moslem. So tell me the concept of Islamic State based on Quran and Hadiths.

Neverland

I’m not Muslim, I am a young Christian and could not give you a dicent amount of information on Islam. I was just stating how bias that sounded that Islam is at fault for stopping a civilization’s developement. The Persion’s, Roman’s, and whatever all fell do to a wide range of reasons, especially not because of their religion. Plus this person takes away credit from the Muslim world of their technological advancements they helped to spark countless technologies we have adopted or built upon.

 

[Neverland]

Dear Bry,

You said:
I’m not Muslim, I am a young Christian and could not give you a dicent amount of information on Islam. I was just stating how bias that sounded that Islam is at fault for stopping a civilization’s developement. The Persion’s, Roman’s, and whatever all fell do to a wide range of reasons, especially not because of their religion. Plus this person takes away credit from the Muslim world of their technological advancements they helped to spark countless technologies we have adopted or built upon.

Actually, when the religion gets too strick that it chokes the breath of creativity, then advancement cannot happen.
We, christians, have our own share of this. The dark age is the example. But we are now improving. As we know, the things that was done by Christians in the past were not the reflection of Jesus’ teaching.
At the moment, Islam is still in its rigid condition. You may read the newest news about a girl in Iran (may be your age), who was sentenced to death because she stabbed someone who tried to rape her. In Iran, they also have religious police and that suffocates advancement. Anyone who tries to bring advancement that moslem authority sees as dangerous and agains the teaching of Islam are eradicated.
I’ve ever joined an Iranian Forum. You may want to join there - there are youths like you, and you will learn more about Iran.

Your Brother,

Neverland

 

[BryPGuy89]

Neverland:

Dear Bry,

You said:
I’m not Muslim, I am a young Christian and could not give you a dicent amount of information on Islam. I was just stating how bias that sounded that Islam is at fault for stopping a civilization’s developement. The Persion’s, Roman’s, and whatever all fell do to a wide range of reasons, especially not because of their religion. Plus this person takes away credit from the Muslim world of their technological advancements they helped to spark countless technologies we have adopted or built upon.

Actually, when the religion gets too strick that it chokes the breath of creativity, then advancement cannot happen.
We, christians, have our own share of this. The dark age is the example. But we are now improving. As we know, the things that was done by Christians in the past were not the reflection of Jesus’ teaching.
At the moment, Islam is still in its rigid condition. You may read the newest news about a girl in Iran (may be your age), who was sentenced to death because she stabbed someone who tried to rape her. In Iran, they also have religious police and that suffocates advancement. Anyone who tries to bring advancement that moslem authority sees as dangerous and agains the teaching of Islam are eradicated.
I’ve ever joined an Iranian Forum. You may want to join there - there are youths like you, and you will learn more about Iran.

Your Brother,

Neverland

As well when a religion is too lose the people fall farther and farther away from the truth, it can go either way. Advancements can happen regardless, it comes down to education and resources not faith.
That is rediculous to blame the Christian faith for the Dark Ages, I fear you missed an important point in your education. The Dark Ages resulted from the vaccume the collapse of the Roman Empire. No political, financial, or militaristic stability in the region are what caused the Dark Ages. I don’t see what you mean by what Christians in the past did where not of Jesus’ teachings, the Catholic Church was up and growing, actually it could almost be creditted that it was what brought Uerope out of the Dark Ages. The Church has been using Jesus’ teachings for almost two millenia.
The problems in the Muslim world can quite easily traced to the Allied powers of World War I. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire they split up the region without consulting or recognising any group in the region, they in turn grouped peole who have been blood enemies for generations into the same areas. I don’t know the story, but depending on the situation she might have been in the wrong in the first place, like no male escort. God in the Bible had sentenced women to death for acting on what one would think self defense, so… there are similarities to the laws of our faith and theirs that some aren’t usually aware of. What do you mean advancement, McDonalds and computers or hybrid cars and new medicines by this policia? I do support that if you live in a religious country and you want to do something against the religion that is public than it should be eradicated. I think there are plenty of things people want and try to get even in our country that should be eradicated years ago.

 

[Ortho]

onesimplemind:

Remember when the black “leaders” like Jesse Jackson wanted to sue U.S. corporations for alleged involvement in Southern slavery and wanted slave reparations from the U.S. government?

I guess the lawsuits should be directed at Muslim countries since 95% (conservative figure) of all african slavery was done by Muslims. Slave trade was big business in muslim lands centuries before European slave trade and centuries after the abolishment of slavery in the western world. In fact, slavery still goes on today in Sudan. NAACP should have a big fat target for reparations in the muslim world.

Arabs were not involved in the West African slave trade to the Americas.

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by ortho
Arabs were not involved in the West African slave trade to the Americas.

Arabs, no. Muslims, yes.

 

[Ortho]

discipleofJesus:

I doubt the accuracy of this statement. Which bishop did this and when? What was his name? Where did you get this from?

The [Muslim] Arab general Amer ibin Alass at the orders of the [Muslim] Arab Caliph Omar ibin Alkhatab did the destruction of the library

“Scholars differed in views on how the ancient library of Alexandria was destroyed. However, recent research by Luciano Canfora concluded that the Arab general Amer ibin Alass at the orders of the Arab Caliph Omar ibin Alkhatab did the destruction of the library. The story of the Arabs destruction of the library indicates that it took them six months to burn the books in about one thousand public bathes in Alexandria.”
Excerpted from copts.net/history.asp#arab

Bishop Theophilus 390 AD.

 

[Ortho]

Neverland:

Dear BryPGuy89,

Oh. Christians in the past did make mistake - many of the power holder left the essense of Jesus’ teaching.
But Christians are better now. We use technology for creating a better life for human.
I take you are a moslem. So tell me the concept of Islamic State based on Quran and Hadiths.

Neverland

Are there any Christian states? Which ones? Which of them allow abortion? Is that a use of technology?