Why Islam ?

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deen

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This thread is dedicated to the **open-minded ** members of this forum who want to know more why Christians have embraced this **highly misunderstood religion ** despite the massive negative propaganda against it.

enjoy!

deen
 
Becoming Muslim - by Nuh Ha Mim Keller

The story of American former Catholic, Nuh Ha Mim Keller, who in the 25 years since his conversion has gone on to become one of the leading contemporary scholars of Islam.

*excerpt: *

“I studied philosophy at the university and it taught me to ask two things of whoever claimed to have the truth: What do you mean, and how do you know? When I asked these questions of my own religious tradition, I found no answers, and realized that Christianity had slipped from my hands.”

"One reason was the frequent changes in Catholic liturgy and ritual that occurred in the wake of the Second Vatican Council of 1963, suggesting to laymen that the Church had no firm standards. To one another, the clergy spoke about flexibility and liturgical relevance, but to ordinary Catholics they seemed to be groping in the dark. God does not change, nor the needs of the human soul, and there was no new revelation from heaven. Yet we rang in the changes, week after week, year after year; adding, subtracting, changing the language from Latin to English, finally bringing in guitars and folk music. Priests explained and explained as laymen shook their heads. The search for relevance left large numbers convinced that there had not been much in the first place.

A second reason was a number of doctrinal difficulties, such as the doctrine of the Trinity, which no one in the history of the world, neither priest nor layman, had been able to explain in a convincing way, and which resolved itself, to the common mind at least, in a sort of godhead-by-committee, shared between God the Father, who ruled the world from heaven; His son Jesus Christ, who saved humanity on earth; and the Holy Ghost, who was pictured as a white dove and appeared to have a considerably minor role. I remember wanting to make special friends with just one of them so he could handle my business with the others, and to this end, would sometimes pray earnestly to this one and sometimes to that; but the other two were always stubbornly there. I finally decided that God the Father must be in charge of the other two, and this put the most formidable obstacle in the way of my Catholicism, the divinity of Christ. Moreover, reflection made it plain that the nature of man contradicted the nature of God in every particular, the limitary and finite on the one hand, the absolute and infinite on the other. That Jesus was God was something I cannot remember having ever really believed, in childhood or later."

read full article :

Becoming Muslim

thx and peace,

deen
 
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deen:
A second reason was a number of doctrinal difficulties, such as the doctrine of the Trinity, which no one in the history of the world, neither priest nor layman, had been able to explain in a convincing way, and which resolved itself, to the common mind at least, in a sort of godhead-by-committee, shared between God the Father, who ruled the world from heaven; His son Jesus Christ, who saved humanity on earth; and the Holy Ghost, who was pictured as a white dove and appeared to have a considerably minor role. I remember wanting to make special friends with just one of them so he could handle my business with the others, and to this end, would sometimes pray earnestly to this one and sometimes to that; but the other two were always stubbornly there. I finally decided that God the Father must be in charge of the other two, and this put the most formidable obstacle in the way of my Catholicism, the divinity of Christ. Moreover, reflection made it plain that the nature of man contradicted the nature of God in every particular, the limitary and finite on the one hand, the absolute and infinite on the other. That Jesus was God was something I cannot remember having ever really believed, in childhood or later.

thx and peace,

deen
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Deen

I have been proposing to my fellow Catholics in this forum including to a Catholic priest years ago A NEW OR ALTERNATIVE ANALOGY OR SYMBOL FOR THE HOLY TRINITY INSTEAD OF THE TRIANGLE.

You can all read about it in "MOEBIUS CURVE (HAS ONLY ONE SIDE)

Actually, I MODIFIED THE MOEBIUS CURVE which was invented by a mathematician-astronomer in 1858. It is used in tape recorders to record on both sides of the tape without rewinding —because in the moebius, the two sides of the tape become actually just one side. Like the Trinity ONE GOD, my words might seem contradictory. But when you see my explanation in PICTURES, YOU FIND OUT IT IS NOT CONTRADICTORY BUT TRUE!!! As I told you, it is sold and used commercially in tape recorders!!! Also it is taught in Post Graduate Mathematics Courses.

See Eurasian Post “MOEBIUS CURVE (HAS ONLY ONE SIDE)”
 
Karla’s conversion to Islam

“How could you, an educated American woman convert to Islam - a religion that oppresses women?” - Blonde-haired blue-eyed, former Christian, Karla, explains how her theological dissatisfaction with the doctrine of Jesus as God and her discovery of the rights given to women in Islam led her to become a Muslim.

"My conversion process to Islam was a long one (it took 20 years!). It started when I was 12. I went to this over-priced private school…very Anglophile…made us wear uniforms…had us in Forms, rather than grades, etc. Anyway, we were studying the major religions of the world–had a little book on Christianity, one on Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism. I remember being really fascinated with Islam, and thinking that Muslims weren’t hypocrites like the Christians I knew. I remember two things really standing out for me. One, being the focus on one God alone. I had always had questions about Christianity’s viewing Jesus as God–and how that went against the first commandment. The second item that stood out was salat. Not just praying five times/day, but how the majority of the prayer focused on worshiping God. In Christianity, our prayers tended to be “gimme prayers.” “God, give me this…God give me that.”

read full story:

Karla’s conversion
 
Hello Deen,
I also have some stuff like this those who converted from Islam to Catholic.
In Christ,
selvaraj
 
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selvaraj:
Hello Deen,
I also have some stuff like this those who converted from Islam to Catholic.
In Christ,
selvaraj
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for replying. I don’t mind if you share those stuff. And what is the conversion rate from Islam to Catholism? I will also appreciate if you have stories of people who converted from Islam to Catholicism whose names are worth mentioning. I still have priests, pastors, ambassadors, former singer, etc to be posted later,God willing.

thx and peace,

deen
 
i really want to speak, but i won’t for fear on being suspended.
 
Deen, the muslims who convert to catholicism or other christian churches have fear for their lifes
chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=7000&eng=y
For example they´re imprisoned, however, catholics or other christians who convert to islam aren´t bothered.
You don´t respect freedom religion, I don´t respect islam.
 
Originally reported by Al-Jazeera:
aljazeera.net/programs/shareea/articles/2000/12/12-12-6.htm
Sample:
** Ahmad Al Katani:**
The reality is that these words say a lot less than they should. As we said in the beginning, everyone has the right to invite others to his religion; this is what is known as evangelism
…
Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa’s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century…

**As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed …… **

**Maher Abdallah **(interrupting):
Hold on! Let me clarify. Do we have 6 million converting from Islam to Christianity or converting from Islam and other religions?
Click to expand...
deen,
I’m not sure of all of the names of the 6 million muslim converts per year, but I’m pretty sure at least one of them is “worth mentioning”. And this is with the persecution of Christians in Muslim nations!

Peace be with you,
RyanL
 
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deen:
This thread is dedicated to the **open-minded **members of this forum who want to know more why Christians have embraced this **highly misunderstood religion **despite the massive negative propaganda against it.

enjoy!

deen
Click to expand...
Running airplanes into buildings and blowing innocent people up and enslaving women for sexual pleasure and Dhimma established by Muhammad himself and the murder of countless millions of Christians and Jews is not “negative propaganda against” Islam. It is the facts of history. Stop denying those things and start to straighten them out and you will be taken more seriously.

Dan L
 
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deen:
Hi,

Thanks for replying. I don’t mind if you share those stuff. And what is the conversion rate from Islam to Catholism? I will also appreciate if you have stories of people who converted from Islam to Catholicism whose names are worth mentioning. I still have priests, pastors, ambassadors, former singer, etc to be posted later,God willing.

thx and peace,

deen
Click to expand...
Tell me Deen, what do you mean by your bold type above?

Isn’t that a little judgemental on your part?
 
Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS,


**
“Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country.”** NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4

**“Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States…” ** NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1

Moslems are the world’s fastest-growing group…" USA TODAY, The populationreferance bureau, Feb. 17,
1989, p.4A

**"Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. ** " Encyclopedia Britannica

**“There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now.” ** Dan Rathers, CBSNEWS

**“Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America.” ** TIMES MAGAZINE

**“Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!” ** CNN, December 15, 1995

**“The religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world.” ** MIKE WALLACE, 60
MINUTES

**“Five to 6 million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons,
and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah’s
Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined. Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the
country’s second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane.” ** JOHAN BLANK,
USNEWS (7/20/98)

"In fact, religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States… Islam has 5 million to 6
million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million… And Islam is believed to be
fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half
from conversions." By ELSA C. ARNETT
Knight-Ridder News Service

NO COMMENT 😃

deen
 
I did not claim that Islam is shrinking. I claimed that 6 million Muslims are converting to Christianity per year. I also claimed that at least one of them is worth mentioning.

Good spam, though…

RyanL
 
Deen,
Would you be open to hear what Jesus has to say?

1 Seeing the crowds, he [Jesus] went up on the mountain, and when he sat down his disciples came to him. 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
8 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you. 13 "You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. 15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. … 21 "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; 26 truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny. 27 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. 31 "It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. 33 "Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. 38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; 41 and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you. 43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Book of Matthew chapter5 (edited for size not content)

The only person who ever spoke like this was Jesus. He teaches they perfect ideal way to live. The most perfect teaching of all time. This teaching comes from God not man.
 
Deen,
To be honest I don’t care if half the planet is Islamic. The religion doesn’t interest me at all. I see drastic inconsistencies in the nature of God as presented by the proponents of Islam and the quotes from the Koran and it just seems like something that someone has made up.

The opinions of Islam of Jesus, (IMO) are misinterpretations of what He said and meant. I have neither the time nor inclination to read the Koran. Thanks for the info and all, but …no thanks.

I’m not trying to be insulting, so please excuse me if that is.
Pax tecum,
 
deen said:
Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. ABCNEWS,

Click to expand...

And this proves what? Actually, worship of the material world and temporal benefit is the largest and fastest growing religion in the world. That must make it true.:rolleyes:

By the way, what are these rights afforded to women in Islam that are so impressive? I keep hearing that women get all these rights, but I haven’t seen any examples besides the right to divorce her husband, which appeals quite nicely to modernist sensibilities. Appeal to modernists is not something you should be looking for in a true religion. Not allowing divorce is offensive to modern sensibilities. That’s why even the protestants allow it despite Jesus specifically condemning it. It’s just so much easier to go with the world.

Since the Koran was written by a man, it was too hard for him to not allow himself the ability to divorce his wife if he didn’t like her. Just a theory…
 
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Genesis315:
By the way, what are these rights afforded to women in Islam that are so impressive? I keep hearing that women get all these rights, but I haven’t seen any examples …
Click to expand...
The NY Times had a good article today on the rights you’re speaking of:
nytimes.com/2005/06/12/international/middleeast/13womencnd.html?hp&ex=1118635200&en=0ab5d0f1074412ed&ei=5094&partner=homepage

**Hundreds of Women Protest Sex Discrimination in Iran
**
Code: 
    By [NAZILA FATHI](http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=NAZILA%20FATHI&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=NAZILA%20FATHI&inline=nyt-per)
Published: June 12, 2005

RyanL
 
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RyanL:
The NY Times had a good article today on the rights you’re speaking of:

RyanL
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Yes, but I think the Muslim apologists on this forum will say this is not true Islam. This true Islam seems like something rather new. I’m just wondering what rights are affordd to women, that say, Catholicism doesn’t also afford them since that seems to be a big selling point of this version of Islam.
 
It is hard to believe that any religion that keeps women enslaved, praying in separate rooms would be as fast growing as it is. I think that once women in the Middle East have more rights, Islam will either die out or change drastically.
 
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