Why isn't guaranteed maternity leave a "pro-life" imperative?

[Theo520]

That doesn’t mean you were working poor. Did you have an impoverished living condition?

You seem to be evolving your definition, under questioning

Yes, for a time we lived in a house without indoor plumbing. Running outside to the outhouse in winter felt pretty impoverished to me. And using a hand pump for water.

 

[QwertyGirl]

People who study this seem to have a definition

Lots of people have different definitions for all kinds of things. That’s why you don’t go accusing people of switching definitions to suit their needs.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I’m sorry you had to grow up that way. It would seem to me you may even have more empathy than the average person for the Working Poor then. Your post does not convey that though.

 

[Theo520]

I’m sorry you had to grow up that way. It would seem to me you may even have more empathy than the average person for the Working Poor then. Your post does not convey that though.

Why do you imagine a bit of hardship and hard work is so bad for people?
We owe people opportunity, not a guaranteed income

 

[Theo520]

Lots of people have different definitions for all kinds of things. That’s why you don’t go accusing people of switching definitions to suit their needs.

You added new conditions I think you hoped would disqualify me.
Does that speak of integrity in your argument, or manipulation?

It’s really impossible to discuss such a topic without having clear definitions.

 

[QwertyGirl]

And exactly what component of your standard of living was it that you felt your parents could have or should have given up so their kids didn’t have to run out to an outside toilet in the middle of the winter ? Your post implys that you believe if poor people would just tighten their belts a little more, their problem of poverty would take care of itself. Would you feel they tightened enough if they lived in a place without running water, like you apprently had to? Would that be tight enough for you?

Honestly, the lack of empathy in astounding. Poor people don’t usually choose to be poor. Working poor ESPECIALLY don’t choose to be poor. Again, I don’t think God is smiling down on that attitude you are expressing.

 

[QwertyGirl]

Why do you imagine a bit of hardship and hard work is so bad for people?
We owe people opportunity, not a guaranteed income

What does any of that have to do with giving a hand up to people when they need it? Why do you suppose I believe hadship and hard work are bad for people? You don’t even know me. I hav had times in my life when I worked 78 hours a week, every week, and lived below poverty level. I worked really hard and had some angels in my life who helped me when I needed it. I never suggested we owe anybody a guaranteed income.

You see? You leapt from defining “working poor” to accusing me of believing hard work as an unnecessary evil. I don’t beleive it is either unnecessary or evil.

Don’t be so worried about being taken from. Instead take a look around and see what you can do to help.

 

[Theo520]

I believe that we in general need to simplify our lives, which reduces the basic cost of living. I don’t deny it’s hard to get by for most middle class people and poorer. I don’t even fault the person since this is culturally driven by increasing sizes of houses, etc etc. The small family homes that were the norm in previous generations have probably doubled in size. These old homes have been torn down and a new, bigger, and more expensive home has replaced it on the lot.

 

[QwertyGirl]

You added new conditions I think you hoped would disqualify me.
Does that speak of integrity in your argument, or manipulation?

It’s really impossible to discuss such a topic without having clear definitions.

You misunderstood my point. Your statement was along the lines of “I grew up in a single income family with five kids.” My point is that growing up in a single income family with five kids does not indicate what your economic status was. The income earner in your family may have been earning $5M a year.

You made my point for me. To understand if someone is “working poor” you need to have a full understanding of their situation. If a College grad earns $17K a year, you can’t say …oh he is working poor. For all you know, he is banking most of it while living with his parents and not having andy living expenses or school loans to repay.

There may be a family with 13 kids and if the income coming in is only $45K, that is a working poor situation for that family.

Your definition of “working poor” only included how much someone works. It is wrong.

 

[QwertyGirl]

I believe that we in general need to simplify our lives, which reduces the basic cost of living.

Like eliminating indoor toilets, you mean?

 

[QwertyGirl]

These old homes have been torn down and a new, bigger, and more expensive home has replaced it on the lot.

What does that have to do with the working poor? The working poor aren’t buying or living in those expensive houses.but

 

[Theo520]

Your definition of “working poor” only included how much someone works. It is wrong.

No, my linked definition combined income and work. It also did not exclude there being other categories of ‘poor’

 

[QwertyGirl]

You linked after you got called out on reducing the definition (on your own terms) to how much somebody works.

 

[Theo520]

Like eliminating indoor toilets, you mean?

If that flippant response is the best you can do with what I said, stop responding
It’s clear you are deflecting from an honest debate

 

[QwertyGirl]

Don’t you know the definition of “working poor”?
It’s people working half time, or looking for work half time (27 wks a year).
Of course their income will be at poverty levels.

Low unemployment is the best thing we can do for them, get them employed for 50 wks a year.

This was your post. It didn’t include an income qualifier.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I believe that we in general need to simplify our lives, which reduces the basic cost of living. I don’t deny it’s hard to get by for most middle class people and poorer. I don’t even fault the person since this is culturally driven by increasing sizes of houses, etc etc. The small family homes that were the norm in previous generations have probably doubled in size. These old homes have been torn down and a new, bigger, and more expensive home has replaced it on the lot.

While you hint at it I don’t think you understand that it takes an enormous amount of effort to simplify these days. I have a stand-alone house. My husband and I wanted the land to garden, keep chickens and for the children to be able to entertain themselves by exploring…so at least a couple acres. The smallest home we found for sale with a minimum of 1.75 acres was 1500 sqft WITH a basement and a garage. We ended up with 3 acres and a slightly smaller home with no garage.

We have no telephone so we need cell phones. We use trac phones to keep things simple but the cheapest smartphone plan is $130 a year.

There is no public transportation where I live, so we must own two cars or else I’d be stuck 5 miles from town with small child children while my husband used his car for work. (I couldn’t just drop him off)

There is no garbage service. So again, need a car to bring garbage to the dump.

There is no city water or sewer, so we’re on a well. To conserve water we have a high-efficiency dishwasher and clothes washer.

It would be easy to “coupon” but I don’t use any brand name food. I plan my laundry days around the weather, I plan my menu for the week to an exact science, I repair everything and clean everything. Along with my freelance work, I probably spend less “quality time” with my children than a typical 2 parent working household.

It takes a TREMENDOUS amount of work to “live simply” and it’s not always the best or practical for families. In fact, living “simply” is probably one of the more complex ways to live today. My lovely Catholic OBGYN would make extra time to chat with me about what I was doing because she was shocked at how I kept my house running. Her husband is a SAHD but they have enough money to afford themselves many shortcuts that actually keep things simple.

 

[QwertyGirl]

If

If that flippant response is the best you can do with what I said, stop responding
It’s clear you are deflecting from an honest debate

You shared that is how you lived for a time when you were a kid. You also implied there was nothing wrong with it, and that your family was “working poor”. It is completely relevant for me to refer to your remark in this debate.

Living without indoor plumbing is actually proably just plain “poor”, not “working poor”, but I digress.

Then, instead of continuing the discussion about what “working poor” really means, you divert to discussing how most of us have higher standards of living than we should.

I bring us back to the conversation by asking you, what in the “working poor” person’s budget do you think they could eliminate to bring them to a reasonable standard of living. I asked you if you thought they should eliminate toilets (and just go out back instead).

I am sorry if I have come down hard on you, but I really encourage you to re-think what you think “working poor” people are about, how they got that way, and how they stay that way. You can’t draw water from a rock, and when you suggest they just cut back on things (things they don’t have), it appears as though you don’t have a good handle on this social issue that needs attention.

 

[Theo520]

No, I understand it’s very hard and our working poor are on a treadmill they can’t just jump off. That’s why I said our society needs to make a shift, it’s very hard for the individual to fight the current.

a 1500 square foot house was quite large in times past btw, now it’s the bottom rung.

 

[Theo520]

Acknowledge your deflection,

I referred to what it means to economists, people who study the topic and really care about having a useful definition that can actually be studied, and not just used for emotional appeal by a SJW

After clearly defining the term, I didn’t know I wasn’t allowed to discuss other aspects related to this social problem.

 

[Sarcelle]

I see your point.

However how do we make people go to church or refrain from premarital sex?

That’s the million dollar question.

In your ideal world, are all married women housewives, unmarried women do not get pregnant and there would be no need for maternity leave?

This is an honest question and not trolling.