Why isn't Natural Family Planning sinful?

[Pug]

Thanks for your answers although it’s not my friend. Beside, intention, purpose, action and circumstances there are other things I don’t like about NFP after doing a bit of research. Some organisations like the Couple to Couples league act like sex police. They ring couples up to find out why they’ve had sex. They also ask couples to state when they have sex on their charts which is an invasion of sexual privacy. I would have greater privacy if I used a fertility monitor or learnt it at home. Condom manufacturers don’t ring people up to find out why they’ve not used a condom or monitor their use. The reason NFP has got such a low pregnancy rate is because they’re policing it, and I’m talking about people like John and Sheila Kippley.

Art of Natural Family Planning pg. 90 by John and Sheila Kippley

“For example, one couple told us they understood the method perfectly and were using it to postpone pregnancy; yet their chart showed coitus during their fertile period. A quick telephone check revealed that they had turned the system backwards and were abstaining during their infertile time and having coitus during their fertile period. (By some chance the woman did not become pregnant in that cycle).”

I’m sorry but a couple should be made aware of fertile and infertile times only and nobody should have to write down when they have sex. It breaks the exclusivity of the marriage bond.

The CCL did not sex police me. They offer to help you read the charts you have made, to be sure you are doing it correctly. They never phoned me. Nothing of the sort. Making your first charts, you can feel uncertain that you have created and read them correctly, that is all. They are teaching, not monitoring, and it is voluntary. Nobody picked on me. You are not required to learn or be taught or have help reading charts. You can mark whatever you want on the charts. You can put what you had for dinner that night, anything, or nothing. They are your charts. Typically, one puts things on the chart that might affect how you read it or interpret it, like you woke up late, so the temp could be off. Then you might decide later to wait for an extra day of temp rise for interpretation purposes. Feel free to burn them and never show them to anybody. If you hate them, don’t do a method that requires a chart to keep track of.

I used the CCL many years ago. Maybe they’ve gone insane since then, but I doubt it. What is probably being described is that the couple mailed their charts to the teaching couple for help, and the teaching couple called them back with assistance about reading the chart. I have that book somewhere, so I could look it up, but it is likely in my attic.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I recommend those w/ questions check out the recommended readings on this AAA forum answer.

 

[foolishmortal]

Birth control isn’t a sin.
How about we ease off the control of the body, except in keeping one from doing something sinful.

Some act being open to procreation, to me, means the act results in creation of another.
Saying contraception is different in being intrinsically evil, when ones mentions birth control when you can’t hold off sex, except to have kids, is beside the point. It’s the contraceptive mentality: I want sex and, yet, I want no babies as a result.

Also, because people might abuse it doesn’t make it wrong is beside the point. That so many are living in a please ourselves now culture makes this NFP needing to be all but forgotten. If it didn’t involve any waiting or mucus, it would be used too readily. Some waiting is admirable, but the sex without kids concept is a dangerous one. It’s like Ascension Thursday being moved to Sunday serving no one’s soul; but the flesh, since people have one less Mass they don’t have to go to that might be a bit inconvenient. It’s time to get back to basics.

To sum up…just because you can, doesn’t mean you should and, in this case, means you shouldn’t. It’s reason added to faith. It’s really just a back-door for Catholic couples, who only have sex to bond them, to avoid contraception.

BTW I think Mary was allowed by God not to have sex, so as to remain a virgin. It may have been St. Joseph slept in a separate bed in another room to maintain her perpetual state, though he was protected from sinning after his conception. Every other married couple needs to procreate wit each other to try to have a kid. I don’t know if they must, if the husband cannot make children or the wife cannot bear children. I don’t know if the Church allowed the infertile to marry. I know it’s grounds for an annulment, if one didn’t tell the other.

 

[hamburglar]

I think there was some misunderstanding with something I said earlier. Like condoms and hormonal birth control, Natural Family Planning is not an intrinsic evil. When condoms and hormonal birth control are used in a sinful way to prevent conception, then they become sinful. I have no question that using NFP to determine the most fertile times is in no way sinful and is in fact beneficial and completely moral.

For me, I have not said that NFP is sinful. This was a philosophical investigation into the issue. It can definitely be used for the wrong reasons, but used for grave reasons specified by the Church I would probably say it is okay.

My confusion in the whole thing is the claim that it is part of the way God made us. I realize that women naturally have periodic fertility. Why is exploiting the natural periods of infertility considered a good thing to do?

 

[Pug]

My confusion in the whole thing is the claim that it is part of the way God made us. I realize that women naturally have periodic fertility. Why is exploiting the natural periods of infertility considered a good thing to do?

Is that really how NFP people look at it, though?

Method 1: We’re never going to have relations, ever, but wait, there are these few moments that we can take advantage of and get away with having relations.

Method 2: We are going to have relations, except there are some days when we won’t chose to do so.

Personally, I think Method 2 is more natural to how married people think. Maybe there is no difference between the two? I don’t know, just a thought. Your phrasing in your last sentence suggests you are viewing it as Method 1. Hypothetically, perhaps a person who always thought via Method 2 would ask, “Why is it a good thing for us to avoid relations today on the grounds that we do not consider it advisable, particularly with regard to pregnancy?”

 

[BiologyBrain]

My confusion in the whole thing is the claim that it is part of the way God made us. I realize that women naturally have periodic fertility. Why is exploiting the natural periods of infertility considered a good thing to do?

With prayerful discernment and close communication, NFP is not exploitation of natural periods of infertility. Instead, it is a prayerful way of trying to fulfill what you believe God’s call for you (as a couple) is at that time. For me & my husband, every time we’re ready to get ‘busy’ we think about what we think God is calling us to do (at least I do, I’m not 100% sure about my husband since he’s not got the same moral code as me). Although I may remind him that we spoke earlier in my cycle about avoiding during our fertile time, we reconsider when the time actually comes.

Actually Pug’s answer is probably more clear. I think most couples that truly use NFP properly are in the 2nd mindset.

I think it also boils down to the fact that NFP couples have given up control (not that we actually have control anyway) to God about when they can have relations and/or make new life. With the first mindset (from Pug’s example) and/or contraceptive mindset - the couple tries to take control of their fertility. However, when NFP is properly use, the outcome is the same - no children until planned (hopefully) - but the method relies on communication between the couple as well as between the individuals and God.

 

[budgie2]

It’s said that Natural Family Planning is natural. It has not been divinely revealed. If God intended everybody to use NFP it would be part of our scripture. It was only developed in the 20th Century and has been developed due to scientific discovery. Methods such as the symptothermal method also grew alongside the contraceptive pill. I know there are people saying that they charted cervical mucus in indigenous societies but it’s not widely available knowledge. It’s more natural than the contraceptive pill but it’s still a very scientific method from the outside. In non-contraceptive societies couples would not try to prevent pregnancy and then try to conceive at other times. They would just have “open” sexual intercourse. I think in the past people abstained totally if they wanted to avoid children although breastfeeding is age-old.

 

[chain]

imho. NFP accepts how we were created by God and works within God’s framework. Contraception assumes Gods framework does not apply to us, that it is flawed, and must be fixed (chemically, surgically or with a barrier).

Thy will versus My will.

 

[fix]

It’s said that Natural Family Planning is natural. It has not been divinely revealed. If God intended everybody to use NFP it would be part of our scripture. It was only developed in the 20th Century and has been developed due to scientific discovery. Methods such as the symptothermal method also grew alongside the contraceptive pill. I know there are people saying that they charted cervical mucus in indigenous societies but it’s not widely available knowledge. It’s more natural than the contraceptive pill but it’s still a very scientific method from the outside. In non-contraceptive societies couples would not try to prevent pregnancy and then try to conceive at other times. They would just have “open” sexual intercourse. I think in the past people abstained totally if they wanted to avoid children although breastfeeding is age-old.

The Church does not oppose good science. It is useful and consistent with God’s plan. Something does not have to be explicit in the bible to be morally acceptable. Can you tell us who your authority is in these matters?

 

[BiologyBrain]

It’s said that Natural Family Planning is natural. It has not been divinely revealed. If God intended everybody to use NFP it would be part of our scripture. It was only developed in the 20th Century and has been developed due to scientific discovery. Methods such as the symptothermal method also grew alongside the contraceptive pill. I know there are people saying that they charted cervical mucus in indigenous societies but it’s not widely available knowledge. It’s more natural than the contraceptive pill but it’s still a very scientific method from the outside. In non-contraceptive societies couples would not try to prevent pregnancy and then try to conceive at other times. They would just have “open” sexual intercourse. I think in the past people abstained totally if they wanted to avoid children although breastfeeding is age-old.

If you would do the research you would actually see that NFP in its basic methods (ie w/o any technology) has been used for centuries. Its actually NFP every time throughout history a woman ‘counted’ her days & then knew whether she could engage in relations or not. Yes, some of the ‘methods’ are new & improved, but NFP has been around for as long as people realized women are responsible for at least 1/2 of the process of creating new life. However, that’s like saying accupuncture or chiropractics are artificial and ‘new’ b/c now people are using technology to help with these procedures. One of the original means of NFP was the Calendar or Rhythm method. Even Wiki acknowledges that NFP has been around since ancient times! You even admit it since breast-feeding has been used consistently throughout history to space births (its obviously natural)!

Something else to consider is that the method you espouse (condoms during the fertile phase based on calendar) is newer and even MORE artificial than any type of NFP could dream of being. Here’s some history: Before the 1800s the infant mortality rate was so high that most couples didn’t have to worry about planning their children - most of them would die early deaths anyway. The women also weren’t considered all that worthy of saving, so no one worried about the health of being pregnant all the time on a woman. However, mortality rates indicate that wasn’t a good plan either. Finally, some began studying how and why pregnancy occurs. At first, the man was thought to have ‘seeded’ the woman who had no part in the process except incubation. However, it was discovered that the woman had a component in the newly created life as well. Once this discovery was made, it became possible for a woman to realize when she could and could not get pregnant. Yes, barrier methods were used as well - then increasingly more sophisticated means were used to prevent pregnancy. It wasn’t until the 1900s (actually I think the 1930s) that it was actually really emphasized that births should/could be control for convenience sake. Then in the 1960s-70s artificial birth control became widely available and accepted practice by all but the Catholics.

PLEASE RESEARCH before posting outlandish and FALSE statements like this & your condom stance! The process of me dealing w/ my asthma, pregnancy, and cancer are very scientific as well, does that make them immoral and/or unnatural? I’m sorry Budgie2, but you frustrate me. The use of science does NOTHING to counter the ‘natural’ aspect of something. Its entirely natural for us to age, but now we know WHY and HOW we age due to science. SCIENCE IS NOT A BAD THING! God gave us intellect to use to glorify him by helping others (and even ourselves).

 

[distracted]

I have no question that artificial birth control is an intrinsic evil and thus sinful. Why is Natural Family Planning not considered a sin?

From my understanding, the primary end, or purpose of marriage is the procreation of education of children. I would think NFP would be sinful because is frustrates the primary end of marriage and subordinates it to the secondary purposes of marriage, such as mutual aid and mutual love.

Why is NFP considered lawful by the Church?

i agree that it is often sinful… it is so easy for a couple to say: Well, maybe we will be ready for a child in a year… then when a yr has gone by, they say, well, we now have this new problem… let’s wait… then after another yr, its the same kind of thing, just different problem…

technicaly a person is never ready to have a child… it is the biggest responsibility on Earth… but the human race would die out if everyone waited till ready… (totally readY)…

Brad & Angie are read $-wise… but i don’t feel they are very mature… just my opinion…

it seems to me a mature couple would get married… but maybe i digress…

basically, i feel that people …Catholics… use it for birth control and it seems that Cahtolics aren’t having any more children than non-C… doesn’t make sense… I rarely see any big Catholic families… Of course, i don’t live in a big city… but still… i used to and i didn’t see them then either…

we could conquer the world for the Church (by sheer numbers alone) if we were not caving in to the ways of the world…

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

If God intended everybody to use NFP it would be part of our scripture.

No offense, but that’s just stupid. By that logic, one could say, “If God thought cloning were bad, Scripture would prohibit it” or “If God thought IVF were bad, Scripture would prohibit it.” The logic fails spectacularly.

 

[churchsecretary]

fwiw - one other method of natural planning that is rarely mentioned is Lactational Amenorrhea Method. It is simply full breast feeding of the infant.

It is God’s plan, and we have circumvented it by using technology for convenience (formulas, pumps, forcing infants to baby food early) - so that we could do things on our schedule rather than how we were naturally designed by God. The funny thing is God’s plan is so much simpler than carrying around baby bottles.

It is not 100%, but can usually increase spacing by more than 1 year.

Not with every woman! My periods always resumed within 1-2 months of childbirth, even with fulltime breast feeding, nursing on demand, etc. I loved nursing, but it wasn’t a way of preventing future children for me!

 

[distracted]

No offense, but that’s just stupid. By that logic, one could say, “If God thought cloning were bad, Scripture would prohibit it” or “If God thought IVF were bad, Scripture would prohibit it.” The logic fails spectacularly.

what do you expect? the whole sola scriptura thing is “stupid” once examined… problem is i don’t think a lot of peple examine it…

just like the un-examined life is not wroth living, unexamined religion is not wroth adhering to…

 

[hamburglar]

There are lots of things about the natural world I do not understand. One of these things is why there are periods of infertility. Is the prevailing thought of NFP users and experts that periods of infertility are in fact God’s way of allowing us to naturally plan our family?

 

[Pug]

There are lots of things about the natural world I do not understand. One of these things is why there are periods of infertility. Is the prevailing thought of NFP users and experts that periods of infertility are in fact God’s way of allowing us to naturally plan our family?

I don’t know, but I can suggest that with a horse/mare, for example, I think it is light cycles (I mean the amount of light in the sky) that cause her to become ready, so that ensures that the foal will be born at a desirable time, when it won’t be the dead of winter. This is because they gestate for 11 months. This would be an example of periodic fertility being related to having the offspring in a planned manner. Biology is not my field, though. And, obviously, humans aren’t the same.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

There are lots of things about the natural world I do not understand. One of these things is why there are periods of infertility. Is the prevailing thought of NFP users and experts that periods of infertility are in fact God’s way of allowing us to naturally plan our family?

Well, I don’t think anyone can know God’s mind that specifically without revelation, so I wouldn’t go so far as to say that God made it that way in order that married couples may space children.

But I do think you’re on the right track. It makes sense on a variety of levels that not every sexual act would/should result in conception. If it is healthy that it works that way - for reasons biological, familial, financial, societal, etc. - then it does stand to reason that taking advantage of that does not constitute - as another poster put it - “exploitation” of natural fertility cycles.

The conjugal act is intrinsically geared toward reproduction, both naturally and theologically, and that’s why the Catholic Church regards contraception (“contra” is Latin for “against”) as immoral. But it does not close the conjugal act to life simply to have sex when one knows conception will not occur

Let’s say a married couple is able to determine that intercourse on a given date would not result in conception. And let’s say they choose to have sex. That sexual act is nonetheless open to life. They have done nothing to hinder the reproductive nature of the conjugal act.

Make sense?

 

[budgie2]

There are a number of problems with NFP currently. A couple could use NFP to try to determine the time of conception of their children or at least influence it. For example, try to control that a baby is not born this year, but that a baby is born the next year or the year after. I do not try to control the time of conception as I believe the date I was conceived is crucial to my identity and planned by God. God needed a specific egg and sperm to create me. This means if I had been conceived a month later I would have different genes and be a different person. If I had been conceived the previous month I would have had different genes and be different. By trying to control the time of conception I can also control who is born. My theology, don’t nick. God didn’t use any old sperm or any old egg to create me. Read my book on prayer based NFP.

 

[Pug]

…By trying to control the time of conception I can also control who is born. My theology, don’t nick. God didn’t use any old sperm or any old egg to create me. Read my book on prayer based NFP.

I see part of what you are saying. I agree that typically a different egg will get used if you get pregnant in March rather than April. But the principle seems far too broad. If I go to Hawaii and visit my sister for a week, this too frustrates God’s plans and controls which baby gets born. Choosing to attend a retreat weekend is suspect. Anything is suspect (assuming only one of you attends).

I don’t understand your sentence: My theology, don’t nick. Are you asking people not to steal the idea and present it as their own original idea?

Also, it raises a question, off topic to the thread, about if the soul has any bearing on “who” a person is, or if it is only genes that make “who” you are, or if a certain soul could only be attached to a certain body, or some such question, I’m not sure. It will be none other than God planned, anyway.

 

[budgie2]

NFP is an eco and bio-friendly alternative to the contraceptive pill. However, couples still control when they want to have children and have children to suit themselves. It’s not necessarily the same as accepting God’s will but it has a certain amount of respect in the Church. It has a nice name, but dodgy morality.