E
excaliber
Guest
why isnt praying to saints and angels wrong in the eyes of a catholic?
why isnt praying to saints and angels wrong in the eyes of a catholic?
- Status
H
Horton
Guest
We don’t pray to saints and angels. We pray to God. We do, however, ask saints & angels to intercede and/or pray for us.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
Why IS praying to saints and angels wrong in the eyes of SOME protestants?
Ok, semi-short answer: Prayer is simply communication. Praying to saints and angels is like talking with our friends on earth. Prayer is not limited to God alone and it never has been (read Shakespeare) and thus it is not something specifically set aside for Him alone. Worship of God as the Supreme Being, Creator, and Lord of all, that’s for God alone. Honor, respect, and acknowledgement of those who have loved God to the best of their abilities. . .that is NOT (obviously) something which is reserved to God alone. If you’ve ever complimented your pastor on a sermon that really helped you understand Scripture better, or noted how kindly the old couple at your church treated everybody, then you’ve done exactly what a Catholic person does in praying to saints and angels; you have noticed something they have done that helps YOU love God more.
So since praying to saints and angels is like talking to your family and friends, and since we don’t ask our family and friends to ‘save us’, or call our family and friends god, but we DO ask our family and friends to help us (in so far as they can) in our trying to live and love our God to the fullest, and that is exactly what we do in asking saints and angels to help us to do. . .
Why would Catholics NOT pray to saints and angels (as well as their family and friends) and think it right to do so ?
M
Marie5890
Guest
Hey I am always asking my friends and family members to pray for me (ie intercede) and they are alive
By the very same principle I ask those who have passed on as well as the angels to intercede for me.
Same principle. Don’t get hung up on the word “prayer”. St Teresa of Avila said that prayer is nothing more than friendly communication.
By the very same principle I ask those who have passed on as well as the angels to intercede for me.
Same principle. Don’t get hung up on the word “prayer”. St Teresa of Avila said that prayer is nothing more than friendly communication.
E
excaliber
Guest
Horton the dead cannot help you and angels only respond to Gods commands
M
Marie5890
Guest
Scriptures to refute what you have said
openbible.info/topics/intercession_of_saints
catholic.com/tracts/praying-to-the-saints
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
St Paul himself says that those in heaven are more alive than we on earth. Plus, they are united perfectly with Christ. They don’t do anything ‘on their own’; they do everything perfectly with Christ.
And we don’t COMMAND angels or saints.
And didn’t God Himself ask us to pray unceasingly? Did He ever say, "but don’t pray along with somebody who has died and is with me in heaven, and don’t pray to angels and ask them to help you love Me?’
How come we have examples of people in the second century AD (that is, more than a hundred to two hundred years before the canon of the Bible was given to us by the Catholic Church) who have carved **prayers in the catacomb rocks to their fellow Christians who were killed in the persecutions?
HUH? how come? Imagine, they’re praying to DEAD people!! People they knew on earth! But they prayed anyway! And this was in a time frame where people were living whose parents or grandparents may have met the apostles themselves, and been a lot closer to ‘first hand knowledge and practice’ of what the APOSTLES said and taught. And they prayed. To ‘dead people’. I wonder why. . .
**
M
Marie5890
Guest
I also wonder why there are those who find it so objectionable to ask those who have passed on, to pray for us. They act as if they think it’s a sin? Or insulting? Or something.
Since when is praying for others a sinful act? I see it as an act of love and charity, whether here on earth or for those who have passed on.
I just never have understand that objection. But some do seem appalled at that thought.
Oh, well…
B
Brendan
Guest
Actually we DO pray to them.
The verb ‘to pray’ means to ask, to entreat or implore. The root word is the Latin ‘precare’, which means, to ask or to implore.
You can ask (pray to) just about anyone.
A great example is Hamlet, Act I, Scene II
Queen Gertrude says to her son, Hamlet: " I pray thee, stay with us; go not to Wittenberg. "
Just a few nights ago, my 7 year old daughter prayed to me to let her stay up late, rather emphatically I might add
Of course, what we are asking the righteous for is to intercede to God on our behalf, to lift us up in their personal prayer.
What we do NOT do is worship the Saints (which includes the angels). Worship is to be given only to God.
But worship and prayer are NOT the same things, as you can see from the definition of ‘prayer’
B
Brendan
Guest
The first part is true; but a very important thing to be aware of is that the Saints are very much ALIVE. That was the whole point to the Resurrection, to conquer Death
H
hazcompat
Guest
When you are a saint you will know.
Peace
Peace
B
brian_custer
Guest
we are not praying “to” them as if the saints & angels can independently intercede on our behalf
we pray “with” them (especially powerful in the case of the BVM) that their more perfect prayers (since they are in heaven) will influence God to act on our behalf
we pray “with” them (especially powerful in the case of the BVM) that their more perfect prayers (since they are in heaven) will influence God to act on our behalf
E
excaliber
Guest
Praying without ceasing means to God and God alone.
Know where in the bible does God tell us to pray to the dead or angels.
Psalm 115:17
Isaiah 38:18,19
So when your dead your dead.
I know its hard for you to accept because of what you have been taught.
The bible is the true word of God, we need to back up our truth with what the word of God says and not what man says.
Know where in the bible does God tell us to pray to the dead or angels.
Psalm 115:17
Isaiah 38:18,19
So when your dead your dead.
I know its hard for you to accept because of what you have been taught.
The bible is the true word of God, we need to back up our truth with what the word of God says and not what man says.
B
brian_custer
Guest
all the holy men & women of faith who have passed before can “hear” us pray
they pray “for” us
if we ask them to intercede on our behalf and we have a good intention in so doing, the holy men & women (and angels) will pray for our intentions
and if you have a devotion to Mother Mary your prayers are on the fast track to being heard & answered by God
they pray “for” us
if we ask them to intercede on our behalf and we have a good intention in so doing, the holy men & women (and angels) will pray for our intentions
and if you have a devotion to Mother Mary your prayers are on the fast track to being heard & answered by God
C
CatholicHockey7
Guest
Excalibur, are you sure you’re a Catholic? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, and your question is honest enough for anyone, but those other responses seem very Protestant. Are you playing devil’s advocate?
H
hazcompat
Guest
John 11:25 Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,26and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Matthew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
Peace
Matthew 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
Peace
J
JamalChristophr
Guest
Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.-James 5:16
Excalibur, This is not an optional belief for a Catholic. It is a non-negotiable doctrine of the Catholic Church.
Excalibur, This is not an optional belief for a Catholic. It is a non-negotiable doctrine of the Catholic Church.
O
oldgraymare2
Guest
As Catholics, we believe in “the Communion of Saints.”
Here is a link to a Vatican Catechism article that explains it better than I can:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm
Here is a link to a Vatican Catechism article that explains it better than I can:
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm
B
Brendan
Guest
Christ says that you are wrong, the Saducees tried the very argument that you are making, and He proved them wrong.
Luke 20:37-38
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive. Moses recognized that, Christ proved it, but you deny it.
S
spes_salvi
Guest
There is simply no Biblical verse that prohibits Christians from asking the intercession of saints.
I’m pretty sure those verses you mentioned don’t talk about the saints in heaven. Consider Luke 16:19-31. It speaks of 3 places: 1) the place of Abraham and the saints 2) the place of the rich man and the tormented souls 3) the earth, where the rich man’s brothers live (the place of living people). If Psalm 115:17 applied to Abraham and the saints too, it will mean that Abraham doesn’t praise God. If Isaiah 38:18 applied to Abraham and the saints, it will mean that they, too, are hopeless. But this isn’t true. Abraham is the father of our faith. (Romans 4:16) How can Abraham be not praising God? How can he be hopeless? That would be absurd.
Your interpretation of these verses come from the Protestant tradition, a tradition of people who fell away from the Catholic Church. That’s why we can also say that it might be difficult for you to accept that saints pray for us. Catholics, on the other hand, interpret the Bible based on the unbroken tradition of Christian teaching from the Apostles.
You have to open your mind if you want to understand and interpret correctly what the Bible teaches as Christ and the Apostles taught them.
- Status