Why isn't the perpetual papal succession broken during a sede vacante period?

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Hello everyone,
I have a few questions regarding the sede vacante period.
As I was teached, the papal succesion should never be interrupted, ie perpetual. But when a pope dies, isn’t the succession interrupted, because there is no pope ? How long can a sede vacante period last until we can consider that the papal succession is interrupted ?
This seems like a stupid question, but are there any writing about this subject ?
Thanks !
 
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Welcome to the forum.

Not a bad question to ask!

Apostolic succession depends on direct, personal, immediate transmission. It is sacramental conferral.

But the Papacy is different. The office is not a sacrament, but filled by election.

When a pope dies or retires he does not know who his successor is.

Benedict even left the Vatican during the election of Francis

When a priest is made a bishop in apostolic succession, the consecrating bishops know who they are laying hands on.
 
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Thanks for the welcome!

So @commenter you are telling me that we should consider that only the apostolic succession should not break, not the papacy ?

But where is the power of the pope when there is no pope ?
I think read somewhere that his powers lays directly on the chair, waiting for the next elected pope to sits in. Can someone has some thelogical writing about this or else ?

Thanks
 
Material apostolic succession (ie succession of orders) is passed from one bishop to another through episcopal ordination. But, his ordinary authority directly comes from the pope himself (and this is done by providing the newly-ordained bishop with his own territory, called diocese, to govern). This is why titular bishops, coadjutor bishops, and schismatic bishops are not successors of the apostles in the fullest sense of the word.
 
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datata said:
his powers lays directly on the chair
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His “chair” is symbolic of not so much a power but a protection. If he speaks on faith and Morals in a certain way, he is protected from error. It doesn’t mean he will speak the truth - he could remain silent, for various reasons - but if he does teach, in certain conditions, he is protected from error.
 
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The supreme jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff comes directly from our Lord Himself. No one in the Church, not even the cardinals who elected him, has power to bestow authority on him. This is why the pope truly has Divine authority over the Church.
 
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datata said:
But where is the power of the pope when there is no pope ?
I think read somewhere that his powers lays directly on the chair, waiting for the next elected pope to sits in. Can someone has some thelogical writing about this or else ?

Thanks
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During a sede vacante period in the Catholic Church, the administration is essentially frozen. No significant changes may be made. The governance is by the College of Cardinals together, in all essential matters that cannot wait for the election of a new Roman Pontiff. Significant changes that are not made might include: the election of new diocesan bishops, the erection of new diocesan territory or promotion of vicariates apostolic, and the publication of papal encyclicals. None of this will be done until the new Bishop of Rome is elected.
 
Thanks!
So we can say that until the college of cardinals isn’t broken, ie there is still a valid cardinal, the papacy isn’t broken?
So what guarantees us that the college of cardinals is still valid, if not the pope?
For example : if a pope dies, and all the cardinals dies. Can we create new cardinals?
Thanks!
 
Hello
datata said:
As I was teached, the papal succesion should never be interrupted, ie perpetual. But when a pope dies, isn’t the succession interrupted, because there is no pope ? How long can a sede vacante period last until we can consider that the papal succession is interrupted ?
Click to expand...
I’m no expert in this, but I wonder if a distinction needs to be drawn between “papal succession” and “apostolic succession”.

Technically speaking, there will always be breaks in papal succession. When a pope dies, and until a successor is chosen, there is a “gap”. That maybe a few days, months or even longer. That’s ok, as the office still exists, even if it is vacant. We can see in Acts 1, that Peter refers to Judas’ office as still existing even though it was vacant. Likewise, the office of the Pope (bishop of Rome) can remain vacant for a time without becoming invalid. I don’t know if there’s a time limit on that.

The Church teaches however that apostolic succession is unbroken. Lumen Gentium states: “By the Lord’s institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constituted a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another” (No. 22).

Apostolic succession is not broken by the death of a pope, or by a sede vacante period, because the charism of apostolic succession does not rest with the bishop of Rome alone, but with all bishops in union with the office of the bishop of Rome. These bishops can trace their teaching authority all the way to the apostles, both historically and spiritually, through the laying on of hands (ordination). They are thus able to elect a papal successor and continue the unbroken continuity of mission of the original apostles.

I apologise if this doesn’t answer your original question, but I thought just wanted to add this dimension to the discussion. I found this International Theological Commission document to be helpful: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ts/rc_cti_1973_successione-apostolica_en.html

God bless.
 
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datata said:
For example : if a pope dies, and all the cardinals dies. Can we create new cardinals?
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Supreme law of the Church is Salvation of Souls. Papacy is indeed established for Salvation of Souls.

This supreme law supersedes any other law. If indeed all Cardinals die, Pope is dead and so on, then Bishops of the world can probably act in extraordinary way to elect new Pope. First Popes were elected by laity of city of Rome. Then Popes were elected by clergy of Rome and later, Cardinals started being named from entire Church. Cardinals are actually “clergy of Rome” by modern standards. There are some who think that in this situation Christ would miraculously choose new Pope to lead the Church.

I also think that this is something Holy Spirit will prevent from happening. Very similar question is "what if all Bishops die? Then no Priests can be consecrated and it’s kind of clear that this is end of the Church Herself. Church can not exist without Bishops and hence this is also something Holy Spirit will prevent.

Also, not a stupid question, but very interesting one. Thank you for asking, this thread is very interesting 🙂
 
Well, that is the nature of a human office. Humans die, and there is a gap in coverage.

However, the office of papacy does not cease to exist between Popes. Rather a limit number of essential duties are carried about by other Vatican officials until a successer who can exercise the full duties of office is elected.

The church has never been left without leadership, even though the pope might die.
 
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