Why isn't the pro-life movement working?

[Skye_Ariel]

I feel that the pro-life movement should attack abortion with secular arguments. Religious arguments might work fine with other religious people, but for the non religious majority a secular angle would be much more persuasive.

That’s a good point. People have been conditioned these days to automatically reject anything that’s tied to religion. If the wrongness of it could be explained on a level and in a way that non Christians can understand or relate to, it might be more successful.

 

[XndrK]

That’s a good point. People have been conditioned these days to automatically reject anything that’s tied to religion. If the wrongness of it could be explained on a level and in a way that non Christians can understand or relate to, it might be more successful.

Right. One step at a time. (That, incidentally, is one reason why TFP Student Action bugs me.)

 

[Latias]

Also, a quick note: Maidan was supported by a lot of people, most of whom were for closer ties to the West, not isolationism. The protests started when the Ukrainian government at the time backed off from a deal with the European Union, and last I checked, pro-EU protests are about as non-nationalist as you can get.

But I digress.

I believe you are getting your perception of the Maidan from Western sources. You really do not know the truth about it.

You should realize that the vanguard of the movement are virulent fascists and Russophobes. Many really did not care about the agreement with the EU.

From the onset of the Maidan events, the final goal of Right Sector was clear: to establish a neo-Nazi dictatorship in Ukraine. On January 25 2014, in an interview with a

Moscow-based radio station, Echo Moscow, Tarasenko said:

We do not care whether or not an agreement with the EU will be signed. We must, by means of a national revolution, overthrow the domestic occupation regime and bring about a people’s rule.

The measures for the establishment of the dictatorship recall the events of the Arab Spring: a revolutionary government is set up; the regime is declared illegitimate; support is requested from the international community; and a national guard is established. And the first step is to bring all state activities to a halt by capturing government buildings throughout Ukraine.

I suppose my point is that the Maidan involved a violent vanguard, and that violence was integral to its success.

Right. One step at a time. (That, incidentally, is one reason why TFP Student Action bugs me.)

They really do double down on the reactionary Catholicism as opposed to making the pro-life ideology more palatable to those with secular sentiments.

 

[Rosebud77]

It is working.

content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2132761,00.html

Ed

Getting into deep waters here in Ireland…

 

[Rosebud77]

The media has made so called “pro choice” its highest priority. This is not only in their editorials, but news coverage. A local politician took a prolife stand. Soon there are inquiries into that fundraiser from 5 years ago. His constituents who don’t like him are suddenly granted interviews, all his actions are suddenly scrutinized in detail. Prochoice politicians are subject to far less scrutiny, they themselves get puff media time, not their enemies, etc. etc.

**On TV when characters are prochoice, they are depicted as compassionate, open minded, caring. And good looking. The prolifers are depicted, well…differently.
**
The local State operated School of Social Work goes to extremes to emphasize inclusiveness, diversity, etc. At the same time staff, on State time, rant and rave in the classroom and in the media against the Catholic Church because it dares to be prolife.

The local diocese spends at least 100 times as much money on caring for children after they are born, in families that have challenges, than they spend on prolife. Yet the media trashes the Catholic Church for ignoring children after they are born.

Far easier of course to be swayed by a tearful girl who has “made a mistake” and got herself ( HERSELF) into "trouble"than to feel anything for an as yet invisible baby… And i honestly do not think some of the pro-life photos they give out do much to help.

 

[commenter]

Far easier of course to be swayed by a tearful girl who has “made a mistake” and got herself ( HERSELF) into "trouble"than to feel anything for an as yet invisible baby… And i honestly do not think some of the pro-life photos they give out do much to help.

In an ideal world, prolifers wouldn’t need to use grisly photos. They would schedule in a rational discussion of what abortion is for the major network news and the public high school health class. But those forums are essentially closed to prolifers, at least in any kind of fair coverage.

Prolifers are always forced to use the second best, or third best strategies. Sometimes those are the best available. They work for some people, but not others. Keep in mind the incredibly hostile environment prolifers are working in. This movement is more critiqued, more denounced, more ridiculed, than anything the US civil rights movement ever went through.

The K of C has a program of sponsoring sonograms. Ironically, this is opposed by groups who supposedly promote the “woman’s right to choose”, even though this facilitates an informed choice.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Link to sonogram program of the Knights of Columbus:

kofc.org/un/en/columbia/detail/500-counting.html

 

[XndrK]

In an ideal world, prolifers wouldn’t need to use grisly photos. They would schedule in a rational discussion of what abortion is for the major network news and the public high school health class. But those forums are essentially closed to prolifers, at least in any kind of fair coverage.

Prolifers are always forced to use the second best, or third best strategies. Sometimes those are the best available. They work for some people, but not others. Keep in mind the incredibly hostile environment prolifers are working in. This movement is more critiqued, more denounced, more ridiculed, than anything the US civil rights movement ever went through.

The K of C has a program of sponsoring sonograms. Ironically, this is opposed by groups who supposedly promote the “woman’s right to choose”, even though this facilitates an informed choice.

That’s why I think it would be cool if the NewsHour people or somebody would do a “Debate of the Week” show. Personally.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

One of my granddaughters has participated in the March for Life, and it’s far from a picnic. Usually it’s horribly cold. She and her local compatriots traveled by bus from Southwest Missouri to DC. No picnic at all. And they paid their own way. No “happy-clappy” to it.

It is a shame, of course, that the Dem party has totally and utterly devoted itself to abortion on demand, leaving prolife people with no choice but to at least vote Republican. That’s not the fault of prolife people or the Repub party either one. It’s the fault of the Dem party that systematically excoriates and excludes prolife people from its ranks.

Well then it’s quite different here on the west coast. It sounds like you might benefit from attending an event and seeing for yourself, as I have.

From my perspective there’s no need to bring in radical political speakers to such events—it unnecessarily politicizes the whole event.

E.g. about some Catholic speakers??? (Um, what a concept!!!) Who can talk about abortion in light of their faith commitments and not the fairly rare “I’m a politician who happens to be Catholic.”

 

[Dave_Noonan]

My plan is to make a movement with one goal: end legally-sanctioned abortion in the United States. All others are secondary. Non-partisan, non-credal (if that’s the word), one goal: bring it down.

I’d make it a Catholic Answers group (I even have a catchy name for it), but that would tie it too closely with the Church, which is not what I’m going for.

I think the main reason Occupy Wall Street failed is because they never clearly defined what success was. The opening poster read “What Is Our One Demand?” and they never decided. A series of pro-life demonstrations would have the advantage of a clearly-defined goal.

Also, a quick note: Maidan was supported by a lot of people, most of whom were for closer ties to the West, not isolationism. The protests started when the Ukrainian government at the time backed off from a deal with the European Union, and last I checked, pro-EU protests are about as non-nationalist as you can get.

But I digress.

If the target goal is only about laws concerning abortion rather than abortion itself, then I’m out–because that’s what we have now in the pro-life movement (i.e., what’s not working).

Abortion is primarily a spiritual problem and then a social problem and (somewhere down the line) a legal problem. Women will continue to have abortions, even if they are 100% illegal.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

In an ideal world, prolifers wouldn’t need to use grisly photos. They would schedule in a rational discussion of what abortion is for the major network news and the public high school health class. But those forums are essentially closed to prolifers, at least in any kind of fair coverage.

Prolifers are always forced to use the second best, or third best strategies. Sometimes those are the best available. They work for some people, but not others. Keep in mind the incredibly hostile environment prolifers are working in. This movement is more critiqued, more denounced, more ridiculed, than anything the US civil rights movement ever went through.

The K of C has a program of sponsoring sonograms. Ironically, this is opposed by groups who supposedly promote the “woman’s right to choose”, even though this facilitates an informed choice.

The anti-life opposition is HUGE!!!

This is no cake-walk debating society,

Please keep in mind that the “anti-life” forces are bankrolled and funded by incredibly wealthy and well funded individuals and organizations and supported by well-connected political groups.

You can look them up.