Likely because the Antiphons are the ‘standard’ for Mass. Hymns are not.Just something I’ve been wondering about; there’s assigned Latin hymns in the Roman Breviary, and there’s also the Roman Graduale so that there’s music for the Latin Propers of the Holy Mass. But there’s never been a Roman Hymnal, which would have “standard” entrance/processional hymns for Latin Mass. Why is that?
God bless!
Hymns are not actually a part of the Mass, the propers are. For example, there is no “standard entrance/processional hymn” because we are supposed to be chanting the introit instead. Sadly, instead of singing the Mass (as Mother Church wants) most of us are just singing (hymns) at Mass. Hope that helps.Just something I’ve been wondering about; there’s assigned Latin hymns in the Roman Breviary, and there’s also the Roman Graduale so that there’s music for the Latin Propers of the Holy Mass. But there’s never been a Roman Hymnal, which would have “standard” entrance/processional hymns for Latin Mass. Why is that?
God bless!
Likely because the Antiphons are the ‘standard’ for Mass. Hymns are not.
Exactly. I wish more people would understand this.Hymns are not actually a part of the Mass, the propers are. For example, there is no “standard entrance/processional hymn” because we are supposed to be chanting the introit instead. Sadly, instead of singing the Mass (as Mother Church wants) most of us are just singing (hymns) at Mass. Hope that helps.
Not to be nitpicker, but Eucharistic adoration and Eucharistic processions are not a part of the Mass and Good Friday is one of only two days of the year where no Mass is allowed to be said.That aside, there’s still many places in the celebration of Mass where a hymn is appropriate. Ave Maria at weddings, Tantum Ergo at Eucharistic adoration, Pange Lingua for Eucharistic processions, Stabat Mater for Good Friday, et al.
Because hymns, strictly speaking are integral parts of the Divine Office, and so for this purpose, are in a book called the Liber Hymnarius.Just something I’ve been wondering about; there’s assigned Latin hymns in the Roman Breviary, and there’s also the Roman Graduale so that there’s music for the Latin Propers of the Holy Mass. But there’s never been a Roman Hymnal, which would have “standard” entrance/processional hymns for Latin Mass. Why is that?
God bless!
The four antiphons in the EF are the introit, gradual and alleluia or tract, offertory and communion. At a High Mass these all are chanted. A parish may choose to include an offertory and/or a communion motet, but these are not part of the propers of the Mass. They would be sung in Latin by the choir, but are add-ons to the Mass, and are permitted, so long as they are in Latin. Vernacular processional and recessional hymns are permitted, because these take place before and after Mass, rather than during the Mass itself.I’ve attended a Solemn High Mass in the Extraordinary Form where the Introit and Communion Antiphon were both chanted; nevertheless there was an offertory and processional hymn. Is that abnormal?.
Only after the Offertory and Communion were chanted. Sometimes a hymn is sung before the Communion, but the same thing applies. The hymns are allowed but are not integral to the Mass. They can be dropped entirely as they are mostly “filler”. This is not true for the Divine Office there the hymn is integral and cannot be dropped. Because hymns at Mass are “filler”, there is no official book for them.I’ve attended a Solemn High Mass in the Extraordinary Form where the Introit and Communion Antiphon were both chanted; nevertheless there was an offertory and processional hymn. Is that abnormal?
Eucharistic Adoration is not Mass. Stabat Mater is not sung during the Celebration of the Lord’s Passion, but outside of it. Ave Maria at weddings is subject to the same principle. Can be permitted but is not integral. Drop it, and nothing is lost.That aside, there’s still many places in the celebration of Mass where a hymn is appropriate. Ave Maria at weddings, Tantum Ergo at Eucharistic adoration, Pange Lingua for Eucharistic processions, Stabat Mater for Good Friday, et al.
Are you suggesting the faithful cannot participate unless the vernacular is used? That clearly is not Church teaching.Where they are used in the Ordinary form, they should be the vernacular simple chanted settings so that the faithful can participate them.
Not at all. The Church is very clear that Latin can be used for the Ordinary parts of the Mass which pertain to the assembly, and for the common prayers, but equally clear that they should not be excluded from taking part in the singing.Are you suggesting the faithful cannot participate unless the vernacular is used? That clearly is not Church teaching.
Of course, the Church doesn’t require the faithful to sing anything at Mass and there is a role for the choir to sing, even without the faithful’s involvement. “Active participation” does not require singing. I think we’d both agree on that, correct?Not at all. The Church is very clear that Latin can be used for the Ordinary parts of the Mass which pertain to the assembly, and for the common prayers, but equally clear that they should not be excluded from taking part in the singing.
No, we don’t agree, I am afraid. The Church is very clear that active participation is both internal and external. On the latter it teaches that:Of course, the Church doesn’t require the faithful to sing anything at Mass and there is a role for the choir to sing, even without the faithful’s involvement. “Active participation” does not require singing. I think we’d both agree on that, correct?
Source?No, we don’t agree, I am afraid. The Church is very clear that active participation is both internal and external. On the latter it teaches that…:
As you know, Musicam Sacram also called for the promotion of Gregorian chant and the use of Latin and was not promoting (much less requiring) the singing of hymns in the vernacular at Mass.
Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.
- All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.3
Not true. It was actually very clear that Gregorian Chant was to hold pride of place but only **in sung celebrations in Latin **(see section 50). And section 32 sanctioned the use of hymns in mass in place of the propers - this was already established practice at low mass.As you know, Musicam Sacram also called for the promotion of Gregorian chant and the use of Latin and was not promoting (much less requiring) the singing of hymns in the vernacular at Mass.
Yes, but the missal of Paul VI eliminated the distinction between “sung celebrations” and “read celebrations (low mass).” Thus SC’s provision that Gregorian Chant is to hold pride of place can only reasonably be held to apply to the Mass in general and not just to “sung celebrations in Latin” after 1969.Not true. It was actually very clear that Gregorian Chant was to hold pride of place but only **in sung celebrations in Latin **(see section 50). And section 32 sanctioned the use of hymns in mass in place of the propers - this was already established practice at low mass.