why Jews don't believe in Jesus

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Could you indicate a Jewish or any non-Christian source for that statement?

Otherwise one is led to assume that you’re getting that from somewhere like the “New Testament” which we don’t accept as any kind of valid source for anything whatsoever.

(though I do admit that I’ve always liked the ‘through a glass, darkly’ bit though, quite a nice useful phrase that)
It comes from the New Testament. The New Testament is a “Jewish” source. It was written by Jews. It is the only reliable source of information about Jesus that is available. Outside of it, there is not much to be spoken of. Even Jewish scholars acknowledge that the NT is a reliable source of information about Jesus. They don’t necessarily have to agree with its theology to say that. There is very little that is known about Jesus outside of the NT. It is either the NT or nothing.

zerinus
 
No that would be modalism a heresy, no can explain the Trinity, it’s impossible to make sense of, there exists no good analogy for it.
multiple personality syndrome isnt compatible with modalism. itis not just a mode or aspect, its entire personas that live in one body.
 
I was actually thinking of Matthew when I posted earlier. Jesus has little if anything to say that is directed at Israel as a people. His message is for those who would follow him. Not for everyone. He is not telling the people of Israel how to follow the Torah, although in some instances his teachings coincide. He is telling them that if they want salvation, they need to follow him.

But the Torah is, among other things, a way of living, as a nation, for eternal Israel. There is a community component that is always present. It is always concerned with the actions of the entire people. It tells us how to live so that the ENITRE people of Israel remain holy.
 
This is almost word-for-word from Jacob Neusner’s book, A Rabbi Speaks with Jesus. I got to the end of it, and I was thinking that this was one of those “stiffnecked people” God mentioned.

The claim that the Torah is solely a document aimed at a “community”, and has nothing to say on an individual’s behavior and relationship with God, is absurd on its face.
I agree. That’s why I didn’t assert that.

As Rabbi Neusner’s states in his book, there is a component of community of eternal Israel that is absent from Jesus’ teachings.
 
It comes from the New Testament. The New Testament is a “Jewish” source. It was written by Jews. It is the only reliable source of information about Jesus that is available.

Well works of fiction are often the only source of information about the characters within them; while, sometimes, non-fictional characters appear in works of fiction - indeed it’s hardly unknown for there to be whole fictions woven around real, historical, non-fictional characters.

In other words, if one was being totally cynical, one could say that Harry Potter books were the only reliable source of information about Harry Potter - to which the response would be: “So what?”
Outside of it, there is not much to be spoken of.
 
As Rabbi Neusner’s states in his book, there is a component of community of eternal Israel that is absent from Jesus’ teachings.
Well, Neusner chooses to interpret “eternal Israel” in a very narrow, and as I said, tribal sense. But in the Gospel of St. Matthew, it is obvious that “eternal Israel” = the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
 
I was actually thinking of Matthew when I posted earlier. Jesus has little if anything to say that is directed at Israel as a people. His message is for those who would follow him. Not for everyone. He is not telling the people of Israel how to follow the Torah, although in some instances his teachings coincide. He is telling them that if they want salvation, they need to follow him.

But the Torah is, among other things, a way of living, as a nation, for eternal Israel. There is a community component that is always present. It is always concerned with the actions of the entire people. It tells us how to live so that the ENITRE people of Israel remain holy.
I fail to comprehend what you are saying. I don’t know what Jesus was supposed to have done to bring His message to the nation of Israel as a whole. Perhaps this quote from the Old Testament will be instructive. This is a prophecy spoken by Moses:

Deuteronomy 18:

15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

In this prophecy Moses is clearly saying that God will some day raise a great prophet among Israel who is as great as Moses. (This rules out any of the OT prophets, none of whom were of the same stature as Moses.) Then it says that anyone who will not hearken to that prophet will come under condemnation. It says nothing about the kind of things that you are talking about. Well, Jesus fulfilled the requirement of being that prophet. His message was for all of Israel; and He wanted them to hearken unto Him. But unfortunately most of them rejected Him. However, to those few who were willing to accept Him, He gave eternal life. If all the nation had accepted Him, then sure, the entire nation would have been blessed by it.

zerinus
 
What you eat, how you wear your hair, how many times you bath etc… can’t make one Holy, that was Jesus entire point.

The Jews today are still in the tribal concept of Israel, God isn’t to be kept in a box and owned by one small group of people, and Israel has never been able to follow the Torah and live righteously. The entire Old Testament is a well… a testament to their abissmall failure to follow God’s law.

What goes into ones mouth doesn’t defile a man but what comes out of it…
 
So I guess all us non-Jews can pack it in then, eat drink and be merry because tomorrow you die LOL…
you know, thats really the beauty of it. so long as you abide by the 7-extremely-easy-Noahide rules, you are fine with their god. you dont even have to believe in god.
Not consistently no they didn’t, they consistently failed at obeying the Torah throughout all of recorded history.
dont you think that should be a case to case basis? like the jews today look pretty consistent. no more Baal worshippers. 😃
 
I don’t see where you are getting this from. Jesus’ message was to all Israel. When He began His ministry, He would go to the synagogues of the Jews and teach them—teach all the Jews. Here are some references:

Matthew 12:

9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue

Matthew 13:

54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works

Mark 1:

21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

Mark 1:

29 And forthwith, when they were come out of the synagogue, they entered into the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John.

Mark 3:

1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.

Luke 4:

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Luke 4:

38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon’s house. And Simon’s wife’s mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.

Luke 6:

6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.

John 6:

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

John 18:

20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

So how else was He supposed to deliver His message to all Israel?

In the final days of His ministry, as he entered Jerusalem, He wept over it, saying: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not (Matthew 23:37). So how else was He supposed to address His message to all Israel? He even told His disciples, when He sent them to preach His gospel, that they should not preach to the Gentiles or the Samaritans, but only to the house of Israel:

Matthew 10:

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So what else was He supposed to do to address His message to all Israel?

zerinus
The point is that his teachings were not a torah for all of Israel, the people. Rather they tended to be aboutwhat an individual was requried to do. He ignored the parts of Torah that addressed Israel as a people. i.e. sacrfices, dietary laws, laws of the Sabbath…
 
So I guess all us non-Jews can pack it in then, eat drink and be merry because tomorrow you die LOL…
you know, thats really the beauty of it. so long as you abide by the 7-extremely-easy-Noahide rules, you are fine with their god. you dont even have to believe in god.
Not consistently no they didn’t, they consistently failed at obeying the Torah throughout all of recorded history.
dont you think that should be a case to case basis? like the jews today look pretty consistent. no more Baal worshippers. 😃
 
you know, thats really the beauty of it. so long as you abide by the 7-extremely-easy-Noahide rules, you are fine with their god. you dont even have to believe in god.
Considering the first Noahide law is:

Prohibition of Idolatry: - There is only one God. You shall not make for yourself an idol. I would say belief in God is a requirement.
dont you think that should be a case to case basis? like the jews today look pretty consistent. no more Baal worshippers. 😃
Israel today is not even close to living by the Torah as a “people” it’s basically just as secular as Europe and the US.
 
Considering the first Noahide law is:

Prohibition of Idolatry: - There is only one God. You shall not make for yourself an idol. I would say belief in God is a requirement.
jews say it isnt. technically the only commandment there is “You shall not make for yourself an idol”. you wont be braking it by not believing in any god. by that i suppose the safest way to go is agnosticism.
Israel today is not even close to living by the Torah as a “people” it’s basically just as secular as Europe and the US.
that is because they dont have a Temple yet. Much of the Mosaic Laws revolve around it. Someones got to blow that Islamic Dome of the Rock off Temple Mount. 😃
 
Considering the first Noahide law is:

Prohibition of Idolatry: - There is only one God. You shall not make for yourself an idol. I would say belief in God is a requirement.

Israel today is not even close to living by the Torah as a “people” it’s basically just as secular as Europe and the US.
hold on, lukewarm, the exile rooted out nearly all idolatry from the Jews, and for at least a century, they lived in peace, both temporally and spiritually. I liken this to the way the Gentiles will be after the coming Minor Chas. After this world, almost comes to an end because of the modern apostasy, NT idolatry will become a thing of the past, in that nearly all Muslims, Orthodox, Protestants, Deists/Rationalists, and even full apostates, will come to Rome. But the Jews will not even get it then. They will stand outside, even after this great reversion in the NT cov, and say, “this is not fair. you never did anything for me, and yet your younger son squanders you life work on whores, and for him you slaughter the fatted calf.” and God shall respond, “Everything I have is yours [in the end, the younger son will say goodbye forever, and the faith will pass unto you], but we had to celebrate, for this son of mine that was dead is alive, he was lost and is found.”
 
…say, “this is not fair. you never did anything for me, and yet your younger son squanders you life work on whores, and for him you slaughter the fatted calf.”
It’s not a coincidence that the prodigal son was one of the readings the week of Yom Kippur.
 
The point is that his teachings were not a torah for all of Israel, the people.
What should He have done to make “His torch for all of Israel, the people”?
Rather they tended to be about what an individual was requried to do.
What should He have done to make His message what you think it should have been?
He ignored the parts of Torah that addressed Israel as a people. i.e. sacrfices, dietary laws, laws of the Sabbath…
How did He ignore those? What should He have done not to have ignored them?

zerinus
 
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