Why Jews Must Accept Jesus

[judcath4]

Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, died a Jew, and he said expressly that he was fulfilling the Jewish religion.
That’s why Jesus can be accepted, even by Jews as a great teacher of morality and ethics. One of the greatest Rabbi’s of the 18th century, Jacob Emden, didn’t hesitate to say,
"The Nazarene brought a double kindness on the world: He supported the Torah of Moses with full strength, and he sought to perfect gentiles with ethical qualities."

Where Jews differ with Christians is not so much about Jesus, it’s far more about Christ.

Death denies Divinity, therefore the Jews feel if he were truly God, God would not just die on the cross and abandon his people.

I think differently of course as I am now a Catholic.

 

[Kaninchen]

I’m missing the argument there - unless it’s that Jesus brought knowledge of God to the Gentiles or something and we should be pleased about that?

 

[judcath4]

I’m missing the argument there - unless it’s that Jesus brought knowledge of God to the Gentiles or something and we should be pleased about that?

No, point is that Jews don’t have a problem with Jesus, but they have a problem with Christ…and there should be no argument…cute bunny.

 

[Kaninchen]

No, point is that Jews don’t have a problem with Jesus, but they have a problem with Christ… and there should be no argument…cute bunny.

It’s Miffy the central character in a series of books for little children - ‘Kaninchen’ is German for ‘Rabbit’.

 

[judcath4]

It’s Miffy the central character in a series of books for little children - ‘Kaninchen’ is German for ‘Rabbit’.

Are you Jewish? Lol, so cute…

 

[Kaninchen]

Are you Jewish? Lol, so cute…

Yes, I’m Jewish.

**

 

[Robbinson]

Jesus was born a Jew, lived a Jew, died a Jew, and he said expressly that he was fulfilling the Jewish religion.
That’s why Jesus can be accepted, even by Jews as a great teacher of morality and ethics. One of the greatest Rabbi’s of the 18th century, Jacob Emden, didn’t hesitate to say,
"The Nazarene brought a double kindness on the world: He supported the Torah of Moses with full strength, and he sought to perfect gentiles with ethical qualities."

Where Jews differ with Christians is not so much about Jesus, it’s far more about Christ.

Death denies Divinity, therefore the Jews feel if he were truly God, God would not just die on the cross and abandon his people.

I think differently of course as I am now a Catholic.

I hear what you are saying, but in my experience (I am also a Jew who came to believe in Christ as the Messiah -albeit currently finding my home in the Protestant church) Jewish attitudes about Christ range across the full spectrum – from outright hostility, indifference, to respect, but disagreement regarding his being the Messiah.

I love talking about Christ and I’ve had many wonderful and interesting conversations with Jewish friends about my faith. But I’ve also seen many hostile reactions and there is a very significant antimissionary movement within Judaism with participants taking some relatively extreme positions regarding Jesus and the gospels.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Sepharad]

I hear what you are saying, but in my experience (I am also a Jew who came to believe in Christ as the Messiah -albeit currently finding my home in the Protestant church) Jewish attitudes about Christ range across the full spectrum – from outright hostility, indifference, to respect, but disagreement regarding his being the Messiah.

I love talking about Christ and I’ve had many wonderful and interesting conversations with Jewish friends about my faith. But I’ve also seen many hostile reactions and there is a very significant antimissionary movement within Judaism with participants taking some relatively extreme positions regarding Jesus and the gospels.

Blessings,

Brian

I find some of the most religious Jews have the least prejudiced atttitudes about Jesus. I personally do not hate Jesus the man; I do, however, have a problem with the religion his followers developed surrounding him.

I was recently reading a wonderful book entitled, “Jewish With Feeling” by Rabbi Zalman Schacter-Shalomi, the founder of the Jewish Renewal Movement.

He is a Chasidic rabbi who has actually shared prayer with Catholic contemplative monks, Buddhist monks, Native American shamans, and others.

He feels people of all faiths can learn from those of other faiths, and he illustrates some very touching and moving examples from his life and his work of this. My favorite is his account of davening (praying) alongside Italian Catholic pilgrims at the Western Wall in Jerusalem…he and his group in Hebrew, and the Italian group in Italian. Both groups were chanting the Psalms together in unison (I would have loved to have heard that!)

He has a chapter in his book where he talks about all religions, including Christianity. He refers to Jesus as “the Rebbe of Nazareth”. He shows how very Jewish many of Jesus’ teachings were…but is very careful to make his position clear…that he does not in any way subscribe to Christianity’s views about Jesus. His view is perhaps one of the most liberal I have seen among Jews. He even maintains that “messianic” Jews should not be cast off from the Jewish people, but should be treated kindly as spiritual seekers.

His one concern is that Christians might misinterpret his leniency toward Jesus as indicating he is willing to convert. But those who know him know that he is just a rabbi who is open to ALL faiths and any wisdom they may have to impart.

You might like his book.

 

[Robbinson]

I find some of the most religious Jews have the least prejudiced atttitudes about Jesus. I personally do not hate Jesus the man; I do, however, have a problem with the religion his followers developed surrounding him.

I was recently reading a wonderful book entitled, “Jewish With Feeling” by Rabbi Zalman Schacter-Shalomi, the founder of the Jewish Renewal Movement.

He is a Chasidic rabbi who has actually shared prayer with Catholic contemplative monks, Buddhist monks Native American shamans, and others.

He feels people of all faiths can learn from those of other faiths, and he illustrates some very touching and moving examples from his life and his work of this.

He has a chapter in his book where he talks about all religions, including Christianity. He refers to Jesus as “the Rebbe of Nazareth”. He shows how very Jewish many of Jesus’ teachings were…but is very careful to make his position clear…that he does not in any way subscribe to Christianity’s views about Jesus. His view is perhaps one of the most liberal I have seen among Jews. He even maintains that “messianic” Jews should not be cast off from the Jewish people, but should be treated kindly as spiritual seekers.

His one concern is that Christians might misinterpret his leniency toward Jesus as indicating he is willing to convert. But those who know him know that he is just a rabbi who is open to ALL faiths and any wisdom they may have to impart.

You might like his book.

Thank you - I’ll add it to my reading list for sure.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Kaninchen]

I hear what you are saying, but in my experience (I am also a Jew who came to believe in Christ as the Messiah -albeit currently finding my home in the Protestant church) Jewish attitudes about Christ range across the full spectrum – from outright hostility, indifference, to respect, but disagreement regarding his being the Messiah.

I love talking about Christ and I’ve had many wonderful and interesting conversations with Jewish friends about my faith. But I’ve also seen many hostile reactions and there is a very significant antimissionary movement within Judaism with participants taking some relatively extreme positions regarding Jesus and the gospels.

Well, I guess I take a ‘relatively extreme position’ on the gospels, in that I see them as a ‘confection’, a ‘construction’ while Jesus is just irrelevant.

On the other hand, I don’t see Christianity as some kind of threat in and of itself but, after all, I’ve spent most of my life living in societies where expressions of any religious sentiment whatsoever are pretty rare - I don’t worry about my children converting to anything other than the kind of general agnosticism that prevails in the society around them - and so most conversations with people of other religions tend to be on the basis of it being rather pleasant to be with somebody with any kind of religious perspective at all.

 

[Sam_777]

Hello “judcath4”,

Congratulations for your conversion, its nice indeed to see some Jews converting to Christianity, however, as a Muslim making my way into Christianity, I would like to hear from you what things in the OT that assured you that Jesus in Lord and the salvation is only possible through him?

Thanking you in advance.

 

[judcath4]

Hello “judcath4”,

Congratulations for your conversion, its nice indeed to see some Jews converting to Christianity, however, as a Muslim making my way into Christianity, I would like to hear from you what things in the OT that assured you that Jesus in Lord and the salvation is only possible through him?

Thanking you in advance.

Hello Sam,
I am very happy for you that you have found the truth and the Messiah, Jesus the Christ. Are you converting to Catholicism? Because that is the one faith I personally found that made any sense from Christ.
In the OT there is Isaiah 53 with it’s minute description of the suffering servant who was despised and rejected, afflicted with pain and stripes, by whose **“stripes we are healed” **He then dies, is buried, yet is revived and suffers all this “For the affliction of my (Isaiah the prophets) people”. All this can be best applied to one person only, **Yeshua of Nazareth **
The Talmud (Sanhedrin 98) teaches that this chapter refers to the Messiah. The Targum of Jonathan begins:
**“Behold my servant the Messiah shall prosper” **common sense says it must refer to Jesus. There is also:
Daniel 9:26
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
Psalm 2, 2:17 and
Zachariah 12:10

Of course there are others but these point the way for me. Hope that helped.

 

[Sepharad]

“Judcath4”, I confess, your posts have sparked my interest as a Jew! I cannot hide it any longer, I want you to tell me ALL ABOUT your childhood as a Jew.

What kind of Jewish childhood did you have? Tell me all the details! What kind of Jew were you, religiously?

Your story has really made an impression on me. So much so, I want to know all I can about it!

You sound like such a strong Cath olic Defender , desirous of converting Jews to the Church, that I just know you will be more than happy to share all the details of your Jewish life growing up, with the rest of us who want to know.

And remember, you’re addressing some of us Jews who grew up very Orthodox, and who will be fully aware of anything Jewish you might tell us, so there is no need to feel nervous…even use Yiddish and Hebrew terms in their proper context if you want, we’ll understand!

Who knows? Maybe you might convert a Jew or two!

 

[Valke2]

Hello Sam,
I am very happy for you that you have found the truth and the Messiah, Jesus the Christ. Are you converting to Catholicism? Because that is the one faith I personally found that made any sense from Christ.
In the OT there is Isaiah 53 with it’s minute description of the suffering servant who was despised and rejected, afflicted with pain and stripes, by whose **“stripes we are healed” **He then dies, is buried, yet is revived and suffers all this “For the affliction of my (Isaiah the prophets) people”. All this can be best applied to one person only, **Yeshua of Nazareth **
The Talmud (Sanhedrin 98) teaches that this chapter refers to the Messiah. The Targum of Jonathan begins:
**“Behold my servant the Messiah shall prosper” **common sense says it must refer to Jesus. There is also:
Daniel 9:26
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
Psalm 2, 2:17 and
Zachariah 12:10

Of course there are others but these point the way for me. Hope that helped.

cathdefender,

Did you study the Targum of Jonathan as a Jew?

 

[Robbinson]

cathdefender,

Did you study the Targum of Jonathan as a Jew?

Rabbi or Sepharad:

As you await JudeCath4s reply (that was a pretty open ended question - Sepharad’s), perhaps you might be willing to share your own interpretion of Isaiah 53 since that was the referenced verse that Cathdefender mentioned?

Blessings,

Brian

 

[judcath4]

“Judcath4”, I confess, your posts have sparked my interest as a Jew! I cannot hide it any longer, I want you to tell me ALL ABOUT your childhood as a Jew.

What kind of Jewish childhood did you have? Tell me all the details! What kind of Jew were you, religiously?

Your story has really made an impression on me. So much so, I want to know all I can about it!

You sound like such a strong Cath olic Defender , desirous of converting Jews to the Church, that I just know you will be more than happy to share all the details of your Jewish life growing up, with the rest of us who want to know.

And remember, you’re addressing some of us Jews who grew up very Orthodox, and who will be fully aware of anything Jewish you might tell us, so there is no need to feel nervous…even use Yiddish and Hebrew terms in their proper context if you want, we’ll understand!

Who knows? Maybe you might convert a Jew or two!

I grew up normal. My parents taught me the history of the 10 martyrs, heard it in synagogue. They taught me about Rabbi Akiva, about Shema Yisrael, and they taught me the Mishnah (when rearranged, make the word Neshama—soul).
I remember the nursery rhyme at Seder…etc…we weren’t very religious.
I read the Talmud with each page starting with page two and not page one…anything else?

 

[judcath4]

Rabbi or Sepharad:

As you await JudeCath4s reply (that was a pretty open ended question - Sepharad’s), perhaps you might be willing to share your own interpretion of Isaiah 53 since that was the referenced verse that Cathdefender mentioned?

Blessings,

Brian

I am a Catholic, and thank you for calling me a defender. I guess you can say that.

 

[Valke2]

Rabbi or Sepharad:

As you await JudeCath4s reply (that was a pretty open ended question - Sepharad’s), perhaps you might be willing to share your own interpretion of Isaiah 53 since that was the referenced verse that Cathdefender mentioned?

Blessings,

Brian

short answer is the suffering servant is Israel. As for a longer answer, I’m sure I have set this forth before in another thread. If I can dig it up, I’ll post the link.

 

[Sepharad]

The reason I asked what I did to “judcath” was to smoke her out…I knew she was really “Cathdefender” but wanted to give her enough “rope” to “hang” herself.

By asking her to describe in detail her “Jewish” upbringing, I figured she’d screw up…since, as a cradle Catholic, she could hardly be expected to know anything truly factual about what it is like to grow up as a Jew.

But, it looks as if I didn’t even have to do that after all, because the mods are very much on top of these things. (I was a moderator on a Jewish forum last summer and had to give it up due to people like this, who got banned and kept trying to weasle their way back…it was too much work for me, and I undersatnd and respect what the mods HERE have to go through, because of it.)

One other thing: Naturally as a Jew I am no defender of Jews who have converted to Catholicism. But I truly feel what “judcath4” did, by posing as a Jewish convert to Catholicism and then acting as she did (and making antisemitic comments to boot), cast a veil of shame over her fellow Catholics of Jewish ancestry.

I know a number of Jews who have become Catholics (Including two whose testimonies are in Roy Schoeman’s new book), and most of them are truly good and decent people. What "judcath4"did shames all of them.

“Judcath4” DO consider that if/when you decide to return to this forum under yet another persona. What if someone who truly IS a Jewish convert to Catholicism innocently comes here to tell their story? Now no one will believe them, they will think they are you!

 

[Robbinson]

short answer is the suffering servant is Israel. As for a longer answer, I’m sure I have set this forth before in another thread. If I can dig it up, I’ll post the link.

Valke2

That is an interesting interpretation (and a relatively popular interpretation within the modern rabbinic Judaism). However, if you read through Isaiah 53, it becomes immediately apparent that the Servant here cannot be referring to Israel.

First, the text of Isaiah 53 implies that the Servant here is sinless - a guilt offering, done no violence. But we know that the history of Israel throughout the Hebrew scriptures is one of rebellion against God - in fact, we are told frequently of only a faithful remnant. We are further told in Isaiah that there is “none righteous” not one. See Isaiah 64:6***:“All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away***.”

Also, Isaiah 53 describes a Servant who bore our sins and transgressions and by his stripes (suffering) we are healed? If the Servant is Israel - who/which Gentile nations have been healed by Israel’s suffering? To the contrary, the Hebrew scriptures tell us that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse Israel will be cursed - and so history has borne this out. All the nations and governments that have oppressed Israel have ultimately been destroyed or disappeared - hardly healing by Israel’s suffering.’

Finally, did you know that there was a pretty established line of interpretation of Isaiah 53 by leading Jewish rabbis before Rashi (i.e., before Christianity) that in fact speaks of Isaiah 53 referring to the Messiah? In addition, after decades of denying the messianic application of Isaiah 53 (again, an interpretation that took hold in earnest after the birth of Christianity - for obvious reasons I imagine), many of the Lubuvach are not pointing to Isaiah 53 as in fact Messianic in order to support the case of their late rebbe being the messiah through resurrection!

Blessings,