'Why Life

[RHannosh619]

I was reading up on articles about the eternity of hell, and quite frankly, its pretty scary. ‘Eternal damnation from God’. I know that hell is one’s own choice, but living is not someones choice.

Before I say anymore, I want everyone to know I’m not in any way unhappy with life or anything, I am a devout(I try) Catholic and am probably one of the most proud(sometimes in a bad way) Catholics around.

If Heaven and Hell are one’s choice(In the way that we live) and by living, it is forced upon us to make this choice, How come one might suffer the consequences of hell since they did not even choose to live to begin with.

Would it be wrong for somebody to wish they never lived so that they would not have to risk going to hell.

I’m into Catholic mysticism just a little bit, so you can see where my quesiton is coming from. I just like to know if anyone has any thoughts about this aspect of life.

 

[spencer2]

Some parts of our faith are a mystery that no human answer could satisfy. As for choosing to exist, few would choose to participate if they knew that eternal torture was a possibility.

 

[GratefulFred]

LIFE is a great gift from God.

With this GIFT, we can do God’s Will on earth as best we can, loving Him and neighbor.

Or we can choose to throw it away and send ourselves to Hell because we misused the gift.

Personally I am Grateful for my Life, my Wife, My Family, and My Faith. I see Life and Faith as teh bookends that make teh love of wife and family so very satisfying.

Thank you, God for my Life and My Faith and the opportunity to use these gifts wisely for the love of You.

 

[TheQuestioner]

One can’t choose to exist. It is illogical to say “it’s unfair, I never chose to exist”. Well…there is no choice involved here. This doesn’t make anything unfair in and of itself, since there is no person to act fairly to.

And don’t worry, at the end of time you will see that everyone had sufficient chance to enter into heaven. Unfortunately those who chose not to…chose not to. Thus we can’t say “it’s not fair to them” when really it’s kind of like a child who wants cake, is given cake, throws the cake on the ground and cries while someone looks on and says “it’s not fair to the child”. Well, he had just as much opportunity as anyone else. No one is given more than they can handle.

Existence is a gift, what you make of your existence is your choice. God puts flags all along the way, and calls you to Him all your life. Some choose to ignore, it sucks when it’s friends and family who do this but I still recognize that in the end, their choice is their choice, though I pray for their conversion.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m not sure about existance totally being a gift…in one sense, yes, it is a gift from the Almighty but in another sense a gift can be rejected at the time when it is given, or rejected later.

Our existance cannot be initially rejected, but of course we can throw it away later on if we so choose, and most definitely, we have the opportunity to choose what we make of our existance.

 

[RHannosh619]

Thank you for the insightful thoughts

If I were to try to answer my own question I would be along the lines of what the first responder said, Humans are not capable of having a full knowledge and understanding of God and his creation.

I did once hear from a friend, that in Heaven, God will reveal to you all of the mysteries of life, and how the earth came to be, Sort of like a movie… All of the things that remain unknown in this world will be revealed.

Anyways, I’m glad I was able to get such good responses on this, Thank You.

 

[slywakka250]

This issue is a huge obstacle for me.(look at my other forum posts), and a common topic here, as I have yet to make my own threads on this issue even. Every time I go to pray, I find myself angry at God, saying, “God, why did you do this to me? , why did you create me and put me at risk for hell?? I don’t know what I’m doing, I don’t want to follow your will if you have put eternal hell as a possibility! Why Lord, Why?”

I most certainly wish I had never lived so as not to assume the risk of hell. God took an eternal gamble on my behalf by creating me, and I do not appreciate it!

But we all have a choice right? yes and no, we make some free choices, but in the end the fix is in, the stakes eternal, and the time very short. And most importantly, your actions before death on this earth, result in eternal consequence that cannot be undone, i.e. once you are in hell you can NEVER get out. eternal torture for eternity (a very long time).

Consider this: If God only created one human person, and no more, where would he choose to go, heaven or hell?? If he is a typical man like your or me, he could go either way, some days choosing heaven, and other days choosing hell. his final choice is supposed to be free and not compelled by God nor man, and he will make his choice.

The problem is we have no way of explaining why he chooses one eternal option over the other. From our existential viewpoint, the choice is purely arbitrary, and made freely, without a sort of probability to guide it either way, the choice is (not from the man’s perspective because he freely chooses), but from ours, and perhaps in a way even God’s, ** completely random**

In other words, what makes on person use his free will correctly, while another uses it incorrectly? The condition of a man’s soul which makes him use his free will in a certain way as opposed to another way, seems like it must be logically prior to free will itself, as it determines the course of free will. If free will is truly free, there can be no such thing determining free will, so I say it must be random then, because with nothing to determine free will’s action, what ever free will chooses appears to have no cause but itself, (an individual’s free will). A free will operating in this manner is naked, divorced from all influence one way or the other, but, because this free will has been created, and a choice for heaven or hell, it must indeed make, it makes one, necessarily by the fact of its existence. Nothing can explain why it makes one choice or the other, all we know is that it does. I see it as random, and that is why I do not want to worship this God, who sets my eternal stake on a randomness.

Now, if free will is not decided my randomness, it must be decided by some sort of probability.

something like this: God created man so that if you put every man in situation X, then 9 out of 10 men will choose option A, while 1 out of 10 men will choose option B. Of course for God to have knowledge of counter-factuals like this puts a damper on our free will already, more importantly it imposes a “difficulty level of attaining salvation” such that God has in his mind a final ratio of the number in heaven versus the number in hell, a ratio which is written into the nature of man, and therefore cannot be abolished.

This again is a rigging of the game, and a setting of odds. and we don’t know the odds. I will not tolerate one person in hell, with a setup like this.

OK.

I’ve kind of been jumping around here, and I’m still thinking through these ideas, and didn’t have time to explain it totally here. What I wrote above might not make sense, but it makes for part of my objection to an eternal hell, so if I want to praise God for all that he is, I must overcome these objections.

 

[slywakka250]

I’m not sure about existance totally being a gift…in one sense, yes, it is a gift from the Almighty but in another sense a gift can be rejected at the time when it is given, or rejected later.

Our existance cannot be initially rejected, but of course we can throw it away later on if we so choose, and most definitely, we have the opportunity to choose what we make of our existance.

I’m not sure what you mean, by “we can throw it away later:” throwing our existence a way, (causing our complete annihilation), is precisely what we cannot do. Our existence is permanent and eternal, in either in heaven or hell. You can never stop existing because God gave you an immortal soul, and he will not destroy it, because God is not a destroyer.

 

[GratefulFred]

For ONE discussion on the role of FREE WILL in our relationship with God, please drill to FREE WILL under the Encyclopedia TAB on this website.

As a human, I am NOT smart enough, even with the very best education, to JUDGE the correctness of God. God’s Ways are far, far, above man’s ways. I cannot fit God into my constraints.

I do believe that God does exists. I do believe that Jesus Christ is the living Son of God. I do believe that Christ told the TRUTH and did not lie.

I may not understand it all, but I understand enough to TRUST JESUS. I do not say, “Prove it to my satisfaction, or forget it.” What I do not understand, I accept ON FAITH.

I also know that we are all curious to know more and know it better. And in wanting that, we often come across ideas that are hard to understand and accept. We sometimes feel frustrated, but knowing that God is indeed with us, we should not feel angry or resentful.

We can and should pray for increase in Wisdom and Faith. We can and should find the writtings of the great fathers of our Faith. It took St Augustine quite some time to come to understand his proper relationship with God. He might be a good start. Or perhaps there are less demanding reads available on this web site that will be stepping stones to the more involved treatment of the ideas.

Bottom line: TRUST JESUS. Read for understanding, not to be argumentative in an angry way, but with a sense of LOVE and TRUST that God does know best.

 

[mark_a]

Would it be wrong for somebody to wish they never lived so that they would not have to risk going to hell.

Once you believe that you were created to know, love, and serve God in this life and the next, the question doesn’t even exist.

Peace!

 

[RHannosh619]

Once you believe that you were created to know, love, and serve God in this life and the next, the question doesn’t even exist.

Peace!

Oh yeah, definitely, I know that, It is not a burden to live, but a joy, why? Because we get to know,love and serve.

I do not want to worship this God, who sets my eternal stake on a randomness.

First, unless YOUR DECISIONS are complete randomness, forget about it, Your “eternal stake” is not on randomness. You are the one who decides which path to follow. One does not randomly choose a path, we are all designed and made in the likeness of God. With that being said, we all have that inner hunger to know the Lord, and this will sway our choices towards him. That is, for the ones who choose to follow there conscience.

but again, your eternal stake is not random. The fact that you became man, and was given life, yes was random for you, but for God, he has a plan for you, so he did not just decide to create you and throw you on the earth for you to do whatever. Each person as an individual was created by God, and only the creator knows what is best for his creation. If you choose to follow his plan, then you will make the right choices with your free will, then you won’t go to hell. Thus, in no way, shape, or form, is your eternal stake random. ONLY the fact that you had to choose one is random, but the choice is yours, and I think that is what really matters…Making the right choice.

I hope that was enough to get you to open up to God again and realize that he loves you and WANTS you to be in heaven with him.

 

[Newbie2]

I’m not sure what you mean, by “we can throw it away later:” throwing our existence a way, (causing our complete annihilation), is precisely what we cannot do. Our existence is permanent and eternal, in either in heaven or hell. You can never stop existing because God gave you an immortal soul, and he will not destroy it, because God is not a destroyer.

I should clarify; we can choose throw away our existance on this Earth i.e. reject our earthly life and commit suicide or not take care of our lives here leading to an early exit.

I was speaking only of our earthly existance…wasn’t really thinking about our eternal one.

 

[beafedor]

Interesting question. I’d rather take a chance trying to do God’s infinite, perfect and mysterious Will in this life rather than doing my own finite, imperfect will by taking my life (if I were tempted to).

 

[lizaveta]

Life can be very rough for some people, yet they find happiness in the smallest things.
What is sad is how some people are made to feel they are a burden and would be better off dead. It is nice how the Catholic Faith encourages people to learn from helping others.
Or is that all wrong?

 

[Waiting]

I have a good number of relatives who have put themselves in jeopardy of losing heaven by their choices in life. I pray for them continually, but I’m not panicking as some of the responders here appear to be. By being given life you have the opportunity to live forever in such happiness and love that whatever the hardships you encounter in living that life, you know they are nothing compared to the rewards you receive in heaven. Anyone who throws that opportunity away deserves the consequences. HOWEVER, the Lord is more merciful than I appear at this moment. He said to St. Gertrude, “When I behold any soul in agony, who has thought of me with pleasure, or who has performed any works deserving of reward, I appear to that soul at the moment of death, with a countenance so full of Love and Mercy, that the soul repents from its inmost depths for having offended Me, and that soul is saved by this repentence.” And that is why I pray for my relatives, but do not panic. Be grateful that you were given life.

 

[ab75]

Some parts of our faith are a mystery that no human answer could satisfy. As for choosing to exist, few would choose to participate if they knew that eternal torture was a possibility.

It is scary but true … while I remain pro-life, in many ways because I know people wanted my mom to have an abortion, when I think of even the smallest possibility of eternal torture, I almost wish she had. In fact, it makes me feel bad for bringing my wonderful son into the world, in case he doesn’t follow the faith correctly, and gives me hesitation about having more.

I think for many, if viewed incorrectly it can cause us to bury our talents, I know it does for me. I think that is why Pope JPII was so clear that we shouldn’t let that traditional imagery cause anxiety, and that Hell isn’t a “place” of torture, but a state of seperation from God. Yes, seperation from God is worse than anything we can imagine, but it is a mystery.

 

[slywakka250]

It is scary but true … while I remain pro-life, in many ways because I know people wanted my mom to have an abortion, when I think of even the smallest possibility of eternal torture, I almost wish she had. In fact, it makes me feel bad for bringing my wonderful son into the world, in case he doesn’t follow the faith correctly, and gives me hesitation about having more.

I think for many, if viewed incorrectly it can cause us to bury our talents, I know it does for me. I think that is why Pope JPII was so clear that we shouldn’t let that traditional imagery cause anxiety, and that Hell isn’t a “place” of torture, but a state of seperation from God. Yes, seperation from God is worse than anything we can imagine, but it is a mystery.

I know. I don’t know if I ever want to have kids because while life is glorious and great gift, the possibility of hell is so real and so terrible, and (some say) so easy to choose, that its just not worth the risk to my future kids, why gamble with eternal souls (have children) if you don’t have too?

Also, JPII or anybody saying that we shouldn’t let hell cause us anxiety is silly. Hell doesn’t get any easier by describing it in more pleasant terms. A certain number of people very well may go there, and no one tolerates hell, unmitigated, hopeless torture for all eternity, we should hear fire and brimstone homilys, because most people have no idea of the horror that threatens them (sin leading to hell) everyday!

I am forced by my anxiety to believe all go to heaven, hell absolutely terrifies me to no end, I must just rationalize around it!

 

[Waiting]

I’m having a hard time trying to understand the very obvious fear of hell here. Yes, hell is real. Yes, we can choose to go there. But who in his right mind is so steeped in evil as to actually choose to go? God is merciful. He goes to great lengths to show His love, and isnot called the Hound of Heaven for no reason. He seeks His own, offers every means through the Sacraments to make getting to heaven rather uncomplicated. He asks us to trust Him. It seems to me there is a huge lack of trust in God here in this thread. If you truly love God, you’ll get to heaven. We all sin, of course. We’re fallible, but God is eager to forgive. Please stop feeding this fear to each other. When something tempts me, and I feel the pull towards the sin, I think of whom I will please if I give in.The loving God who gave His life for me,or that ugly creature who hates me and wants to drag me down to his level. No hard choice.

 

[slywakka250]

I’m having a hard time trying to understand the very obvious fear of hell here. Yes, hell is real. Yes, we can choose to go there. But who in his right mind is so steeped in evil as to actually choose to go? God is merciful. He goes to great lengths to show His love, and isnot called the Hound of Heaven for no reason. He seeks His own, offers every means through the Sacraments to make getting to heaven rather uncomplicated. He asks us to trust Him. It seems to me there is a huge lack of trust in God here in this thread. If you truly love God, you’ll get to heaven. We all sin, of course. We’re fallible, but God is eager to forgive. Please stop feeding this fear to each other. When something tempts me, and I feel the pull towards the sin, I think of whom I will please if I give in.The loving God who gave His life for me,or that ugly creature who hates me and wants to drag me down to his level. No hard choice.

You seem to have a healthy relationship with God. That’s great. Not everybody has this. Honestly, I do not know if I want to serve God or not, I constantly waffle between heaven and hell, largely undecided. One the one hand, there is much evil in my heart, and I willingly choose it and enjoy it, and reject God maliciously without shame or guilt. On the other hand, I have been Catholic all my life, see the beauty of a properly lived moral life, and am sometimes attracted to it.

Time is running out for me. I don’t know how long I will live, or what decision will be in place when I die. you might say I don’t know what I want, heaven or hell, I see no certainty that I will pick one or the other, and yet the horror of hell still presents itself to me, and makes me terrified as I observe myself actively choosing it!

I guess I’m just evil eh? It would be nice if I could change, but first of all I don’t necessarily want to, and secondly I’m angry at God for creating me, and forcing me to make a decision which I might regret eternally (if I make the wrong choice, thinking somehow that hell really is better than heaven)) (once we get to hell, we will see we were wrong, even if hell seemed better while on earth)

I’m trully terrified!

 

[fhansen]

I was reading up on articles about the eternity of hell, and quite frankly, its pretty scary. ‘Eternal damnation from God’. I know that hell is one’s own choice, but living is not someones choice.

Before I say anymore, I want everyone to know I’m not in any way unhappy with life or anything, I am a devout(I try) Catholic and am probably one of the most proud(sometimes in a bad way) Catholics around.

If Heaven and Hell are one’s choice(In the way that we live) and by living, it is forced upon us to make this choice, How come one might suffer the consequences of hell since they did not even choose to live to begin with.

Would it be wrong for somebody to wish they never lived so that they would not have to risk going to hell.

I’m into Catholic mysticism just a little bit, so you can see where my quesiton is coming from. I just like to know if anyone has any thoughts about this aspect of life.

Seems like you don’t appreciate having to make a choice. But remember that the gift of free will is the very thing that makes us great-or at least potentially so. And if all that gift gives us-if the only choice to be made-is one in favor of life and love and all that would make us exhaustively happy, then how is having that choice unjust? How can we blame God for giving us that choice when the choice is about Himself, with Him knowing full well the goodness that He has to bestow on us? I mean, the only reason for rejecting such an option is if, for some reason, we preferred evil. Then that would be our choice.