why mary??

[allan77]

hello everyone,

My main question here is why are roman catholics so interested in mary?
i’ve already touched on the subject of praying to mary in a previous post, and i’ve been told catholics more pray through mary than to her. Fair enough:thumbsup:.
But,Is this not still against gods teaching that we should under no circumstances, pray to any other? (exodus 20:4-5- also one of the original 10 commandments, which some catholic bibles have changed- to me thats kinda blashphemous, but thats for another post)
Also does bowing before statues of mary(or any other) not go against this?
Now i know a lot of catholics say they dont worship mary or statues of mary, but when i look at pictures of people bowing or standing with hands clasped or praying in front of such statues I find that very hard to beleive. (sorry, but i do. Please dont get offended)
I also remember reading a passage in the bible where jesus refers to mary as"woman" and not “mother”. Does that not mean he was telling us that mary was just a normal woman?(seriously, someone help me with this. cannot remember which passage tho, sorry!!)
I understand this may be a touchy subject, so apologies if anyone finds this offensive, I generally dont understand the fasination with mary and would welcome any answers.

Thanks again,
Allan

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Why not Mary? Luther loved her and referred to her as Ever Virgin.
Pray means ask. There is nothing in Scripture that says that we may not pray (ask) things of any other person. The idea that one may pray ONLY to God is a modern (less than 400 year old) narrowing of the meaning of the word “pray”.

I’m sorry you find it hard to believe but the fact remains that it is totally irrelevant what you ‘think’ or believe’ in regard to the heart of another person. You could be (and in fact you are) totally mistaken, even though I’m sure you don’t mean to offend. That being said, what would your reaction be if someone were to tell you that based on HIS ‘perception’ of you, that YOU appeared not to worship God properly? You would probably tell him that his perception was faulty and that God knew your heart no matter what it ‘looked like’ to him, wouldn’t you?

Jesus referred to Mary as “Woman” which in context for the time and culture was a term of respect (though in today’s modern culture it might seem a put down. We always have to keep ‘context’ in mind when we read scripture lest we fall into the error of reading something into it that was not there).

 

[allan77]

Why not Mary? Luther loved her and referred to her as Ever Virgin.
Pray means ask. There is nothing in Scripture that says that we may not pray (ask) things of any other person. The idea that one may pray ONLY to God is a modern (less than 400 year old) narrowing of the meaning of the word “pray”.

I’m sorry you find it hard to believe but the fact remains that it is totally irrelevant what you ‘think’ or believe’ in regard to the heart of another person. You could be (and in fact you are) totally mistaken, even though I’m sure you don’t mean to offend. That being said, what would your reaction be if someone were to tell you that based on HIS ‘perception’ of you, that YOU appeared not to worship God properly? You would probably tell him that his perception was faulty and that God knew your heart no matter what it ‘looked like’ to him, wouldn’t you?

Jesus referred to Mary as “Woman” which in context for the time and culture was a term of respect (though in today’s modern culture it might seem a put down. We always have to keep ‘context’ in mind when we read scripture lest we fall into the error of reading something into it that was not there).

Hello and thanks for replying,
I really genuinley do not mean to offend, I just dont understand the fascination with mary. Although i do not doubt she was a fantastic person. I still do not beleive she was ever virgin though, but this is a personal belief from certain parts ive read in the bible.(i beleive she had normal relations with joseph and had more children- mathew 1: 23-25, ofcourse i may interpret this differently from yourself, I also believe she was born with sin just like the rest of us)
I never really thought about someone telling me how thier perception of me worshiping god was wrong,but thaks for bringing it to my attention. I am not saying people are wrong for praying to mary, but im seeking the answer as to why they pray to her rather than just praying to the lord
Thanks again
Allan

 

[Joe_5859]

Welcome to CAF!

Have you ever had the experience that you really don’t know a friend completely until you meet their family? I know that, for me, the more I have gotten to know my in-laws, the more I have understood my wife. It is the same with Jesus. We love Jesus so much that we want to know His family (and, indeed, to make His family, our family).

We want to know more about Mary because of our great love for Jesus. All the Catholic dogmas about Mary are important, not because of what they tell us about Mary, but because of what they tell us about Jesus.

As far as the comment about people “bowing or standing with hands clasped or praying in front of such statues”, would you say that someone bowing their head in prayer in front of the Vietnam Memorial is worshiping that memorial or the Vietnam War? Is someone praying by the tomb of a loved one worshiping the headstone, or treating their loved one like they are God? Of course not.

We need to be very careful about ascribing certain interior attitudes to people based on surface appraisals of their actions, particularly in regards to groups of people we disagree with.

For more info on Mary and the Saints, Catholic Answers has produced a number of tracts which explain Catholic belief and practice in this regard.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I really genuinley do not mean to offend, I just dont understand the fascination with mary.
Allan

Hi again, Allan!

Fascination with Mary? If it weren’t for Mary’s fiat (“yes”) and submission to God’s will, we would not have a Savior. We look to her for an example (so that we may also say fiat) and we achieve all of God’s favors through her. She is our Mother, our Mediatrix. Many protestants who have been conditioned to say only negative things about our trust in Mary will try to tell you differently…but we are the One, True Church of the world, and what we believe about Mary is what is true. I have no doubt, whatsoever.

Read up on some Catholic Info on her…looking further than just the Bible. The Early Church Father’s teachings, perhaps, or the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). If you stay where you currently are, you won’t be persuaded otherwise about Our Lady.

Blessings,
Therese

 

[YADA]

hello everyone,

My main question here is why are roman catholics so interested in mary?

I think all Christians are interested in Mary because she is the mother of God - Jesus the Incarnation - God taking on Human Flesh - infant, childhood, teen years … fully human and fully divine … a profound mystery - the meditation upon which unites us with our “Heavenly Father”

i’ve already touched on the subject of praying to mary in a previous post, and i’ve been told cathlics more pray through mary than to her. Fair enough:thumbsup:.

Exactly - Mary is the first “Christian” united with Jesus in a profound way … given to us for our Mother by Jesus at the Cross where John represents the Christian faithful

But,Is this not still against gods teaching that we should under no circumstances, pray to any other? (exodus 20:4-5- also one of the original 10 commandments, which some catholic bibles have changed- to me thats kinda blashphemous, but thats for another post)

Actually we are commanded to pray for each other … and the word “pray” has multiple meanings, the first of which means simply “to ask” … as in “I pray Allan77, what is the truth you seek here?” … see Websters definition:1 : to make a request in a humble manner and 2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving …

You use the word only in the second sense of the word … the Church [and Catholics] do not limit the use of the word pray as an address to God … pray [simply meaning “ask”] was very common in the past … and Church language does not change as fast as the common vernacular … think of the word gay … happy, carefree … now has other meanings and use … the new defiunition does not change or make in appropriate the other definition …

Thus we are called to intercede for each other with our Lord … I can pray for you and ask you to pray for me … We [Christians] are a Communion of Saints … that Communion exists in time and out of time … our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of te 'Living, not the Dead" …

Also does bowing before statues of mary(or any other) not go against this?
Now i know a lot of catholics say they dont worship mary or statues of mary, but when i look at pictures of people bowing or standing with hands clasped or praying in front of such statues I find that very hard to beleive. (sorry, but i do. Please dont get offended)

That you observe and place your motives on another does not change the reality of that person. IOW: Your belief that they are ‘worshipping’ does not mean that they are …

I also remember reading a passage in the bible where jesus refers to mary as"woman" and not “mother”. Does that not mean he was telling us that mary was just a normal woman?(seriously, someone help me with this. cannot remember which passage tho, sorry!!)

Jesus refers to His mother as “Woman” twice once at the Wedding Feast in Cana and when He was on the Cross … Eve is also referred to as ‘Woman’ … Eve capitulated to the lies of Satan … through her “yes to Satan” sin entered into the world bring sin and death … look at What God states … “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.” … the offspring of Eve referred to is Jesus [God] through Mary … Jesus is referred to as the New Adam [Adam being a prototype of Jesus] … Mary is the “New Eve” …she is also the Ark of the New Covenant… the old Ark of the Covenant carried the Tablets [word of God], the rod of Aaron [symbol of the High Priest] and Manna [the bread from heaven that sustained the Isrealites] … Mary carried the True High Priest [Jesus, Messiah, Immanuel], the True Bread from Heaven [John Ch 6], The Word Made Flesh [John Ch 1]

Mary is not just another human … she is unigue in Salvation History, her “yes to God” is the example of the Christian life … “all generations shall call me blessed: the Almighty has done great things for me and Holy is his Name”

I understand this may be a touchy subject, so apologies if anyone finds this offensive, I generally dont understand the fasination with mary and would welcome any answers. Thanks again, Allan

No prolems - unless you have a motive hidden in the post

 

[ctkrcia]

Two quick points come to mind.

“Behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.” Luke 1:48 If we do not consider and treat Mary as blessed, are we going against sacred scripture?

Secondly, Catholic theology holds that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit have always existed. They never had a beginning and will never have an end. When God the Father sent His Son, He had already chosen Mary to be the earthly mother of His Son. He chose her from the moment of her conception - probably before.

Given that consider the following question. If you had the chance to create the perfect mother, would you? A mother who always understood? A mother who disciplined, but always with love and never anger? A mother who never abandoned you, even in your darkest time? A mother without sin? God is the only one who has ever had that opportunity. I am certain He made the perfect mother for His most perfect and holy Son.

When considering just these two, it is easy to see why Mary is “set apart” from all others. Without her “fiat” (agreeing to God’s will), we would not of had Jesus. Without her “fiat”, we would not have the opportunity for salvation. Without her “fiat”, we would still be living under the Mosaic law. In short, without here “fiat”, the world would never have known pure love.

That is part of the reason why I honor and adore Mary above all other Christians. To me, she is the epitome of Christian perfection. As such, she is one whom we would all do well to study and emulate.

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, it’s because God is unchanging. Now He could have sent Jesus to us in any way at all–but He sent Jesus through Mary. That means it wasn’t just a ‘use then drop’ thing; if Jesus was sent through Mary He is still being sent through Mary. And that does make Mary important. Not a goddess, not equal to Jesus in any way whatsoever. . .but it makes her important enough that Scripture tells us she will be called ever-blessed. Since God saw fit to send Jesus through Mary, and since the Old Testament has many parallels and verses which ‘prefigure’ this, we see the importance God places on Jesus and thus, of course, on all that have to do with Jesus --and especially with the woman He chose to bear and to raise Jesus. She was ‘full of grace’ BEFORE she bore Jesus (the angel addresses her as such before she agrees); what does that mean? and to be FULL of grace? It is more than just being a nice but unimportant little girl. And think too, if Mary was just ‘an incubator’ and God had no ‘relation’ with her. . .even though He is the Father of Christ and she is the mother of Christ–you almost make God an adulterer, or like one of the Greek or Roman gods who impregnate a human female and leave a ‘partly god’ child with her. Would God just ‘use’ Mary and then expect her to ‘go on as before’ and raise a bunch of ‘normal’ yet half-bros and sises of a DIVINE child? Would Joseph even want to have relations with the mother of the Son of GOD? To put himself in the place where God had seen fit to send the Divine savior of the world?

Remember, for 1500 years the Catholics AND the Orthodox (everybody keeps forgetting the Orthodox) have taught that Mary was ever Virgin using Scripture (and its prefigurings in the Old Testament) and Tradition (Orthodox use it too, not the ‘little things’ but the oral Traditions that St. Paul speaks of in Scripture). And even the first protestants like Luther believed in it. We can trace back when men first started to say differently. . .but we can never ever find where Scripture or Tradition said definitely that she was NOT ever-virgin. Even things like “first born” don’t imply ‘later born’. In Jewish law, if a male was the first born in a marriage, he was called first born even if there were no later children born at all. It refers to the legal status whereby the first born in a family was the one who was the heir.

 

[Mel_Stones]

Asking Mary for intercession is no different than if I asked you to pray for me. Actually the difference is that Mary is standing next to God.

The statue focuses our attention. If we pray before a statue of Jesus it is ridiculous to think we are praying TO the statue. We are using the statue to focus our attention on Jesus to whom we are praying. Same thing goes for a statue of Mary. If you look at a picture of your wife and talk to it, are you talking to the picture? No, your focusing your mind on the person and talking to her. No, you don’t expect the person to actually here you and when praying we do but I see no other difference.

The ‘changing the 10 commandment’ discussion is going on elsewhere - actually someone started a new thread just for that today.

Mary is the mother of Jesus and extremely devoted to God. She is known to be in heaven. Actually as Catholics we don’t have the big Mary fascination we are always accused of. She isn’t a part of the liturgy of the Mass (there is one prayer that mentions her along with the angles, saints, martyrs, and all those who have left this world in God’s friendship). ** We give her a place of honor because she devoted her life to God and gave birth to and raise our Savior. That is no small feat and we don’t sweep it under the rug as no big deal like many protestants.**

Mary was a woman so I don’t think it really matters if Jesus referred to her as one. I’ve no idea what verse you are referring to, though, so I can’t give any more specific than that.

 

[NHInsider]

hello everyone,

My main question here is why are roman catholics so interested in mary?

Well first off, we are interested in Mary because our salvation depends on the Incarnation. If Jesus is not truly Son of God and Son of Mary, then our faith is unfounded. The early Church Fathers went through years of discussion and debate over the mystery of the Incarnation - it is, after all, something we cannot fully comprehend. Over and over heresies developed that challenged the fundamental reality of True God and True Man. Finally the bishops at the Council of Ephesus in 431 declared that Jesus was so Truly God and so Truly human that it was proper to cal Mary “Theokotos” - “God-bearer” or, as we refer to her, “Mother of God” (because “kotos” is not “bearer” in the sense of “carry” but as in “bear a child.”) So everything we say and sing and declare about Mary is truly about Jesus, the Word who became Flesh and dwelt among us.

The second reason is because Mary is our model and our mentor. She is what every one of us is called to be - a human being who yielded her entire self - body, mind, soul and spirit - to the will of God. She is the first and most perfected Christian. What’s more, redeemed by the blood of Jesus, she made possible the redemption of all. She always directs our attention to Jesus, as when she tells the servants at Cana - “do whatever He tells you.” We, too, should be diligent in pointing others to Jesus throughout our lives. And she is as we all hope to be, united with Him in heaven.

Paul said “be imitators of me, as I imitate Christ.” This is why we look to any of the saints - to be inspired to follow their examples. And why we ask them to pray for us and with us on the journey, just as we pray for one another.

i’ve already touched on the subject of praying to mary in a previous post, and i’ve been told catholics more pray through mary than to her. Fair enough:thumbsup:.
But,Is this not still against gods teaching that we should under no circumstances, pray to any other? (exodus 20:4-5- also one of the original 10 commandments, which some catholic bibles have changed- to me thats kinda blashphemous, but thats for another post)

Look back at that Exodus passage again. Where does it say anything about praying? It specifically speaks of worship. They are not the same thing. (And not incidentally, the Commandments in Exodus and Deuteronomy are not numbered, and no where in the Bible are they referred to as “The Ten Commandments.” If you count, in the Exodus passage, there are actually 22 command verbs. The “Ten” is a convenient way of teaching and remembering them, since most of us have ten fingers. The faithful have always understood that some of the command verbs in the passage are emphasizing or explaining the main points.

One quick observation about whether “make no graven image” is part of the “have no other gods” commandment or is a separate one unto itself - if the Lord had intended to prohibit the carving of images or utilization of them in the worship setting, would he have instructed Moses to include carved bulls and cherubim in the detailed instructions for the outfitting of the Altar and Tabernacle?

Also does bowing before statues of mary(or any other) not go against this?
Now i know a lot of catholics say they dont worship mary or statues of mary, but when i look at pictures of people bowing or standing with hands clasped or praying in front of such statues I find that very hard to beleive. (sorry, but i do. Please dont get offended)

Only if the person is worshipping the statue (or the person it represents) - and as someone else has already pointed out, you have no way of knowing that from looking at that person.

Again - what’s the difference between the golden calf that Aaron made and the gold bulls that God commanded hold up the pool in front of the altar? The difference is function/intent. Aaron said to the people of Israel “Here is your god,” directing them to worship the statue. The bulls that upheld the pool reminded the Israelites of God’s might, directing their minds to glorify the Lord.

I also remember reading a passage in the bible where jesus refers to mary as"woman" and not “mother”. Does that not mean he was telling us that mary was just a normal woman?(seriously, someone help me with this. cannot remember which passage tho, sorry!!)

It’s that same passage in John, at the wedding at Cana. And many scholars see in His use of the term an intentional Eve/Mary parallel. (See Gen. 3:15) As Eve disobeyed and so led all of humanity into sin, Mary obeys and so leads us into redemption.

But again, I think it is important to recognize that Mary WAS a normal woman, except that she was perfectly submitted to the will of God. We don’t think she was divine, just holy - and isn’t that what Jesus calls every one of us to be? (See Romans 12:1-2)

I understand this may be a touchy subject, so apologies if anyone finds this offensive, I generally dont understand the fasination with mary and would welcome any answers.

Thanks again,
Allan

It’s a really common source of misunderstanding, unfortunately.

 

[allan77]

I think all Christians are interested in Mary because she is the mother of God - Jesus the Incarnation - God taking on Human Flesh - infant, childhood, teen years … fully human and fully divine … a profound mystery - the meditation upon which unites us with our “Heavenly Father”
Exactly - Mary is the first “Christian” united with Jesus in a profound way … given to us for our Mother by Jesus at the Cross where John represents the Christian faithful

Actually we are commanded to pray for each other … and the word “pray” has multiple meanings, the first of which means simply “to ask” … as in “I pray Allan77, what is the truth you seek here?” … see Websters definition:1 : to make a request in a humble manner and 2 : to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving …

You use the word only in the second sense of the word … the Church [and Catholics] do not limit the use of the word pray as an address to God … pray [simply meaning “ask”] was very common in the past … and Church language does not change as fast as the common vernacular … think of the word gay … happy, carefree … now has other meanings and use … the new defiunition does not change or make in appropriate the other definition …

Thus we are called to intercede for each other with our Lord … I can pray for you and ask you to pray for me … We [Christians] are a Communion of Saints … that Communion exists in time and out of time … our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of te 'Living, not the Dead" …

That you observe and place your motives on another does not change the reality of that person. IOW: Your belief that they are ‘worshipping’ does not mean that they are …

Jesus refers to His mother as “Woman” twice once at the Wedding Feast in Cana and when He was on the Cross … Eve is also referred to as ‘Woman’ … Eve capitulated to the lies of Satan … through her “yes to Satan” sin entered into the world bring sin and death … look at What God states … “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.” … the offspring of Eve referred to is Jesus [God] through Mary … Jesus is referred to as the New Adam [Adam being a prototype of Jesus] … Mary is the “New Eve” …she is also the Ark of the New Covenant… the old Ark of the Covenant carried the Tablets [word of God], the rod of Aaron [symbol of the High Priest] and Manna [the bread from heaven that sustained the Isrealites] … Mary carried the True High Priest [Jesus, Messiah, Immanuel], the True Bread from Heaven [John Ch 6], The Word Made Flesh [John Ch 1]

Mary is not just another human … she is unigue in Salvation History, her “yes to God” is the example of the Christian life … “all generations shall call me blessed: the Almighty has done great things for me and Holy is his Name”

No prolems - unless you have a motive hidden in the post

hiya.
Thanks for the reply again,
starting to kind of understand more about these things, thankyou.
lol no there is no motive hidden in the post. Im genuinley interested, and looking for answers:
I beleive mary was a great person btw, just incase i gave any other impression:blush:

 

[allan77]

Asking Mary for intercession is no different than if I asked you to pray for me. Actually the difference is that Mary is standing next to God.

The statue focuses our attention. If we pray before a statue of Jesus it is ridiculous to think we are praying TO the statue. We are using the statue to focus our attention on Jesus to whom we are praying. Same thing goes for a statue of Mary. If you look at a picture of your wife and talk to it, are you talking to the picture? No, your focusing your mind on the person and talking to her. No, you don’t expect the person to actually here you and when praying we do but I see no other difference.

The ‘changing the 10 commandment’ discussion is going on elsewhere - actually someone started a new thread just for that today.

Mary is the mother of Jesus and extremely devoted to God. She is known to be in heaven. Actually as Catholics we don’t have the big Mary fascination we are always accused of. She isn’t a part of the liturgy of the Mass (there is one prayer that mentions her along with the angles, saints, martyrs, and all those who have left this world in God’s friendship). ** We give her a place of honor because she devoted her life to God and gave birth to and raise our Savior. That is no small feat and we don’t sweep it under the rug as no big deal like many protestants.**

Mary was a woman so I don’t think it really matters if Jesus referred to her as one. I’ve no idea what verse you are referring to, though, so I can’t give any more specific than that.

Hi, thanks for replying,
I agree with you that mary was special, ofcourse she was. There are some protestant churches who do also give mary a special mention, i’ve been to a few, whilst ive been on my journey(of faith i’ll call it) I still dont really get the praying to her or through her though, I still feel that the bible gives us the message that it should only be through jesus. Ofcourse that is just a personal thing,and its good to get all these answers as to why people pray to or through mary, so thankyou for taking the time to reply to my post.
god be with you,
Allan

 

[AngloCatholic1]

Allan77:

I was once a protestant, and I also had a hard time with the veneration of Mary. I see that my Catholic brothers and sisters (above) have done a great job bringing it all into perspective. If I could dumb it down a notch, and just give you the nuts and bolts of it, it would run like this:

1. Eve was the poison, but Mary is the antidote. Mary is the “new Eve”. After Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden, God prophesied to the Serpent:

“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” Genesis 3:15 (KJV)

This is the first prophecy in Holy Scripture, and it speaks of Mary - the new Eve - who’s seed (Jesus) will crush the head of the serpent (Satan).

2. The church of believers is the Body of Christ. Read 1 Corinthians 12. Paul tells the believers in Corinth that each of them are like parts of a divine body, some eyes, some ears, some hands, etc. Just as each part of the body cannot function withou the others, so each member of the church relies upon the other members. Mary, of course!, is also a member of our Church (I’m sure you’ll at least agree with THAT!).

3. NOTHING can separate the members of Christ’s Church from each other. NOTHING. As Paul clearly tells us:

“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8:38-39 (KJV)

In the Revelation of St. John we see that there are Church members in Heaven (Saints) who offer prayers before God on our behalf:

“And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it **with the prayers of all saints **upon the golden altar which was before the throne.” Revelation 8:3 (KJV)

and also:

“And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

So there you have the nuts and bolts of it. Mary is the Mother of the Church. The Church members need each other. Nothing, not even death, can separate us from each other. The Saints in Heaven talk to God, and our prayers are placed before Him.

Now isn’t that a beautiful picture of the True Church? Kind of makes you want to start praying to Mary right now, doesn’t it?!

 

[Brendan]

hello everyone,

My main question here is why are roman catholics so interested in mary?
i’ve already touched on the subject of praying to mary in a previous post, and i’ve been told catholics more pray through mary than to her. Fair enough:thumbsup:.
But,Is this not still against gods teaching that we should under no circumstances, pray to any other?

No, Exodus says worship, not ‘pray’. “Worship” and “Pray” are two different words.

The verb ‘to pray’ means to ask ( root: Latin precari - to ask, to implore, to entreat)

Take Shakespeare’s Hamlet, for example, when Queen Gertrude says to Hamlet " I pray thee, go not to Whittenburg"

Is Gertrude violating God’s command when she prays to Hamlet? Of course not.

So anytime you ask someone for something, especially if you do so with a level of urgency, you are praying to them ( by the very definition of the word)

So yes, Catholics DO pray to Mary, in the same way my son prayed to my wife to stay up later past bedtime.

And no, that is not the same thing as ‘worship’ and I’m surprised that you would think so.

 

[Brendan]

I also remember reading a passage in the bible where jesus refers to mary as"woman" and not “mother”. Does that not mean he was telling us that mary was just a normal woman?(seriously, someone help me with this. cannot remember which passage tho, sorry!!)

Christ was using the same name that Adam named Eve (in Hebrew Hawwa), this is hardly a common name. In Hebrew, refering to someone in that way ( using Hawwa as a title) is akin to calling her “Mame” or “Madame”

 

[AngloCatholic1]

Brendan says:

Christ was using the same name that Adam named Eve (in Hebrew Hawwa), this is hardly a common name. In Hebrew, refering to someone in that way ( using Hawwa as a title) is akin to calling her “Mame” or “Madame”

Good point, brother! I forgot to mention this. It’s clear that Jesus used this name for His mother at key moments in the Gospel because He wanted to draw our attention to Mary’s fulfillment of God’s first prophecy (Gen. 3:15).

Hope that clears things up for you Allan77 !

Also, when we Catholics pray to God we attach “latria” to the prayer, which is a Greek term for “adoration” or “worship”. This type of prayer is directed to God alone. But when we pray to the Saints we attach “dulia” which is a term for “veneration”. It`s like talking to another Christian brother or sister for whom you have immense respect. This teaching is clear, and comes right from the Second Council of Nicaea (A.D. 787), so Catholics do NOT worship Mary. This is official Catholic teaching, so DO NOT let anyone else tell you different!

 

[djeter]

Tucked within this too long post on Gerard Manley Hopkins is a poem that answered for me the query that begins this thread:

It is called “The Blessed Virgin Compared To The Air We Breathe.” I committed it to memory and thus learned the deeper understandings buried in its inscape/instress rythyms.

You can find it all here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/07/24/gerard-manley-hopkins/

In Christ,

dj

 

[lil_flower_luv]

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/07/24/gerard-manley-hopkins/

:bighanky::heaven:Beautiful.
Thank you, dj.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Hi, thanks for replying,
I agree with you that mary was special, ofcourse she was. There are some protestant churches who do also give mary a special mention, i’ve been to a few, whilst ive been on my journey(of faith i’ll call it) I still dont really get the praying to her or through her though, I still feel that the bible gives us the message that it should only be through jesus. Ofcourse that is just a personal thing,and its good to get all these answers as to why people pray to or through mary, so thankyou for taking the time to reply to my post.
god be with you,
Allan

Hi Allan,

Gee I hope that you do not ask anyone here on earth to pray for you either as that also would not be going through Jesus only.

Here is the most common prayer to Mary:

Hail Mary full of grace
The Lord is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus
Holy Mary Mother fo God
Pray for us sinners
Now and at the hour of our death
Amen

Would you study this prayer and explain how it is problimatic for you? Aside from the fact that Mary is a part of the communion of saints in heaven rather than someone you can see here on earth–how is this different than asking someone to pray for you (I have of course made the assumption that you do ask other humans here on earth to pray for you)?
If you had the choice of asking someone you thought was holy or someone whom you had no idea how holy they were–who would you ask to pray for you? It really seems that part of the problem is the word pray–to many think it means worship rather than ask.

Good luck on you journey and may you find the answers that you seek.

Peace,
Mark

 

[dachsiemom]

As with Jesus and all the saints in heaven, Mary is alive. Catholics pray to Mary, our Blessed Mother, to intercede for us. Same as if I asked you to pray for me. Read carefully the Hail Mary - posted above.