Why Medievalists should stop talking about Game of Thrones

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I think GOT has many more issues than just being an inaccurate representation of medieval history, BUT I think it does need to be said as many fans seem to assume that if you take away the dragons and other magical creatures, Westeros is the same place as historical medieval Europe. Even on CAF I read a post once claiming that the Church used to give dispensations to royalty to let brothers and sisters marry, and that poster also had a GOT quote in his signature. :hmmm:

Now, it is true that the Church fairly routinely gave dispensations to royalty to allow for close cousins and even uncles and nieces to marry - one reason why the Habsburgs of Spain wound up so inbred, and the because the last Habsburg king was sterile. But the status of the Catholic Church in the real world was very different from that of the “Faith of the Seven” of Westeros. It had much more power and influence.

Unfortunately, many have defended the sex, violence, and sexual violence depicted in GOT with “that’s just the way it was back then” and I recall one medievalist blog that often posted to debunk assumptions made in both the books and the show, including posts that showed that women had much more protection from rape and abuse than popularly believed.

Even GRRM himself has issued some disclaimers regarding actual history. In his books “women” are married as young as 10 years old, such as the Red Widow in the Dunk and Egg tales.

But I do recall him making a comment that it was somewhat of a grey area as to whether young “maidens” could be “wedded and bedded” in the real middle ages and that cases such as Margaret Beaufort, who was married very young, likely at 14 but possibly 12 or 13, weren’t the norm.
 
I think most people understand that GOT does not represent the medieval world historically, any more than it does geophysically (generations-long seasons???)

But neither TV nor film is representing true history, so we are stuck with theatrical over representations of it.

ICXC NIKA
 
Having seen only bits and pieces of a few shows, I am floored that anyone would take GoT as a representation of European Middle Ages, or anything human, in fact. I thought it was supposed to be like Dune or something.
 
I agree. Even though I’m a fan (gradually losing some love for it over time, however), the thought has crossed my mind reading the books or watching the show, “I get it’s inspired by Medieval elements, but I really hope people don’t think the Middle Ages was actually like this.” Granted, the Middle Ages were messy, not the Dark Ages as people believe, but it was messy. It was like that everywhere, however, not just Christian Europe.

It amazes me that Martin, as an ex-Catholic whose Faith of the Seven is intended as similar to the Church (I’m sure with the intent of making it look ridiculous), actually makes the more overtly pagan societies look worse. Westeros may be a mess, but look at Qarth or Meeren or Asshai. Those places are a living nightmare, especially Asshai which reeks of a Lovecraftian influenced nightmare city.
 
Having seen only bits and pieces of a few shows, I am floored that anyone would take GoT as a representation of European Middle Ages, or anything human, in fact. I thought it was supposed to be like Dune or something.
I agree, the series is set in a totally different world although obviously the author did take some inspiration from medieval history, but apparently Westeros has been stuck in a “medieval” feudal level of society for thousands of years, not centuries (though there is some hint that the society might not really be that old as the official histories claim).

The religious landscape is very different, the Faith of the Seven does seem based on Catholicism, but half the country is essentially pagan as the Northerners follow the “Old Gods” and that is considered acceptable, even when the North tries to become independent the religious differences really don’t see too important, especially in the show, though certainly the Rhllorists who follow the “Lord of Light” are portrayed as intolerant of other faiths.

Some of the technology is more advanced, much of it actually was invented in the Renaissance, not the historical middle ages. Then there’s the order of maesters, they are as essentially a secular version of actual orders of monks who helped advance scientific knowledge.

Also, at least when it comes to the books, I just accept that “kids on Planetos mature faster than on Earth” not just when it comes to sex but in general. I think GRRM had admitted that he didn’t do enough research on child development when he started to write the books. Bran’s first GOT chapter, for example, really does not strike me as authentic “8 year old” voice, he sounds much older, yet oddly clueless about sex.

Note that the show actually aged up the younger characters, mostly to allow for the sex scenes to be legal, but also because some of the actions would likely seem unbelievable if the ages weren’t changed. On the other hand, some of the characters, such as Robb Stark, wound up looking immature for their age.
 
GOT is complete fiction and, to my knowledge, the author does not claim it to be historical. There are some rough parallels such as Westeros, Essos, and Sothoryos having similarities with Europe, Asia, and Africa respectively but anybody who reads these books as history needs to go back to school.
 
It amazes me that Martin, as an ex-Catholic whose Faith of the Seven is intended as similar to the Church (I’m sure with the intent of making it look ridiculous), actually makes the more overtly pagan societies look worse. Westeros may be a mess, but look at Qarth or Meeren or Asshai. Those places are a living nightmare, especially Asshai which reeks of a Lovecraftian influenced nightmare city.
I’m not sure if Martin himself had the intent of making the Church look ridiculous. Yes he depicts a lot of corruption at the higher levels, but he also depicts many devoted followers of the Faith. The show on the other hand, I think did set out to ridicule Catholics, as well as Christians in general. The Faith Militant storyline is much more nuanced in the books than the show.

On the other hand, I think some “historical dramas” such as the Tudors, or the Vikings, can be more problematic than fictional ones such as GOT, because more people assume they are indeed historically accurate even if they take many liberties with actual history.

(Though much of the Vikings storylines are based on legends about Ragnar that may or may not be true so I wouldn’t quite call it a historical drama even though it airs on the History channel. AFAIK although a “Rollo” existed he was probably not Ragnar’s blood brother, and there are many characters such as Floki and Athelstan are just made up).
 
Well, it’s definitely human, as the people therein procreate, scheme and die just like human beings.

ICXC NIKA
 
Well, it’s definitely human, as the people therein procreate, scheme and die just like human beings.

ICXC NIKA
The GOT novels seem to be the distillation of all that is negative about humans and filters out the noble and righteous aspects, everything which makes us in the image of God.

The article in the link says the GOT has a harsh and cynical view. I agree with that assessment. Could not even finish the first book.
 
People acting like they know everything, what’s new 🤷

I’m sick of people absorbing knowledge from stuff like this instead of taking the time to verify info.

The show has too much explicit sex for me :confused: I’ve only watched some scenes and most of those scenes made me want to wash my eyes with holy water. But I’m dramatic like that 🙂
 
People acting like they know everything, what’s new 🤷

I’m sick of people absorbing knowledge from stuff like this instead of taking the time to verify info.

The show has too much explicit sex for me :confused: I’ve only watched some scenes and most of those scenes made me want to wash my eyes with holy water. But I’m dramatic like that 🙂
They had some really bad scenes
😦
 
I’m not sure if Martin himself had the intent of making the Church look ridiculous. Yes he depicts a lot of corruption at the higher levels, but he also depicts many devoted followers of the Faith. The show on the other hand, I think did set out to ridicule Catholics, as well as Christians in general. The Faith Militant storyline is much more nuanced in the books than the show.

On the other hand, I think some “historical dramas” such as the Tudors, or the Vikings, can be more problematic than fictional ones such as GOT, because more people assume they are indeed historically accurate even if they take many liberties with actual history.

(Though much of the Vikings storylines are based on legends about Ragnar that may or may not be true so I wouldn’t quite call it a historical drama even though it airs on the History channel. AFAIK although a “Rollo” existed he was probably not Ragnar’s blood brother, and there are many characters such as Floki and Athelstan are just made up).
That’s a good point. And you might be right about the show vs the books. I did read the books sort of in tandem with the show so that could have colored my viewing of the books. The show of course presents Cersei more sympathetically than in the books, in my opinion.
 
I do not watch this show, it never appealed to me and most Christian sites consider it as pornographic and therefore mortal sin, but I want to ask about other shows that contain porn, many non cable shows could be considered as such.

I know that the Church defines porn as real or simulated sexual acts, this show contains simulated ones, it is porn.

But how watching porn makes it a mortal sin, is it just looking at the people having sexual intercourse OR reacting to the sight by touching myself or wishing that I was in there is the mortal sin?

I am asking this because we see obscenities everywhere on the street, in malls, even immodest and tight clothing at the mass and if every time I see such a scene I need a confession, I need a personal dedicated priest all day long.
 
As I grow older, I find I prefer history to fantasy, and historical fantasy to fantasy-fantasy. Real to fake.
 
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