Why Mormons are not Christians

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thephilosopher6

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Dear Mormonism,

I understand that you find it offensive when mainstream Christians deny you the title. Make no mistake, we do this not out of any hate or spite for you, but rather we do it out of recognition that the Mormon faith is incompatible with Christianity. Of course, some of you may object by pointing out your faith in Jesus. Indeed, you have this, and on the surface you seem to have a genuine love for him and his teachings. But believing Jesus doesn’t automatically make you a Christian just as much as knowing how to do algebra doesn’t make you a mathematician. If it were true that believing Jesus is the only thing qualified to make you a Christian then we might as well include Muslims and Baha’i’s as Christians, and heck, even a few Hindus since there are some Hindu sects that believe in Jesus, and that isn’t a joke.

Now, I think it is appropriate to outline the basic things that makes someone a Christian and why Mormonism simply doesn’t pass this test. A compare and contrast in other words. It is my earnest hope that any LDS on here can see these and understand where Christians are coming from when speaking about Mormonism.

Christianity ultimately teaches:
  • Monotheism.
  • Jesus as Messiah.
  • The Trinity (one God in three persons).
  • The divinity of the Father as first person and source of the Holy Trinity
  • The divinity of Christ, the Son, as the second person of the Holy Trinity.
  • The divinity of the Holy Spirit as third person of the Holy Trinity
  • The birth, ministry, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ.
  • The simplicity of God.
  • The omniscient’s, omnipresence, and omnipotence of God.
  • The eternal existence of God as God.
  • God is spirit not matter.
  • Creation of the universe ex nihilo .
  • The final judgment.
  • Biblical inerrancy.
  • The New Testament and the New Testament prophets.
  • The Old Testament and the Old Testament prophets.
  • The fall of man.
  • Original sin.
  • Salvation by grace.
  • Baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity.
  • The Eucharist.
  • The virgin Mary and Christ’s virgin birth since he was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
  • Rejection of unique Mormon practices and beliefs.
Mormonism ultimately teaches:
  • Polytheism.
  • Jesus as Messiah.
  • The Godhead (three beings [gods] united by one purpose).
  • The divinity of the Father as the first god of the Godhead known as Elohim who is literal father of all people including Jesus and Satan.
  • The divinity of Christ, the Son, as the second god of the Godhead known as Jehovah.
  • The divinity of the Holy Spirit as the third god of the Godhead.
  • Existence of other gods.
  • The birth, ministry, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ.
  • Prayer to Elohim (the Father) alone.
  • The Father being a material man made of flesh and blood.
  • The existence of the goddess known as the “Heavenly Mother.”
  • “God” living on the planet (or star) “Kolob.”
  • Creation of the world out of already existing matter.
  • Pre-existence of the spirit.
  • Jesus and Satan being literal brothers along with the other “spirit children” as siblings.
  • The Mormon plan of salvation.
  • The final judgment.
  • The Book of Mormon as scripture along with the The Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants.
  • The prophet-hood of Joseph Smith.
  • Mormon temples.
  • Endowment ceremony.
  • Celestial marriage.
  • Becoming a god of your own, possibly ruling your own planet and//or universe one day.
  • Baptism for the dead.
  • The New Testament and the New Testament prophets.
  • The Old Testament and the Old Testament prophets.
  • Mormon prophets.
  • The fall of man.
  • Pelagianism.
  • The Mormon priesthood.
  • Baptism in the name of the Godhead.
  • The “sacrament” (Mormon equivalent of the Christian Eucharist).
  • The virgin Mary and Christ’s virgin birth since he was conceived of the Holy Spirit.
  • Polygamy (yes I know the current LDS church does not condone polygamy anymore, but it was a historic practice among Mormons and Joseph Smith himself practiced it).
As we can see, there are certainly a few similarities, but also extreme differences as well, especially when it comes to Mormon theology about God. The Mormon understanding of God is not the Christian understanding, and I personally would go as far to disqualify them from even being an Abrahamic religion altogether.

When Mormons baptize, on the surface it may look like Christian baptism, but in reality Mormons are not actually baptizing in the name of the Christian God. Instead, they baptize in the name of Mormon deities which are only based off the Christian God. Due to this, Mormons simply cannot be counted as Christians. Mormon baptism is invalid. Mormon beliefs are considered blasphemous in Christianity.

I do not mean to offend any LDS on CAF. I simply mean to show you why you are not really Christians in the eyes of most Christians. I know some of you have a hard time understanding it and I hope I have successfully laid out our reasons to you and I pray and hope that one day you find the light of Christ and come to him.

Sincerely,
Christianity
 
The response will be about their behavior not their beliefs. The confusion about Christian behavior and Christian beliefs will continue.

I have no doubt many of the LDS can behave in a Christian manner, but almost anyone can do that. Behaving well is not always a indication of Christianity. I’m sure many Muslims, Jews, Hindu, Buddhists, and so on, who exhibit kindness, caring, love, welcoming, warmth, and many other qualities of goodness but we don’t call them Christians, which is okay with them and us.

The LDS want acceptability and will conform their outward signs with Christianity to appear as though they are similar to every other Christian church. I believe this is done to gain converts.
 
OP, it would be better to say “Why Mormonism is not Christian” to avoid personalizing your argument.

It is difficult to argue Christianity with Mormons as there is so little common ground. Joseph Smith rejected almost everything, Scripture and Tradition, that Christians base our faith on. He saw the Christian Bible as a flawed translation. He rejected the Early Church Fathers and Councils as apostate.
 
Horton said:
The response will be about their behavior not their beliefs. The confusion about Christian behavior and Christian beliefs will continue.

I have no doubt many of the LDS can behave in a Christian manner, but almost anyone can do that. Behaving well is not always a indication of Christianity. I’m sure many Muslims, Jews, Hindu, Buddhists, and so on, who exhibit kindness, caring, love, welcoming, warmth, and many other qualities of goodness but we don’t call them Christians, which is okay with them and us.

The LDS want acceptability and will conform their outward signs with Christianity to appear as though they are similar to every other Christian church. I believe this is done to gain converts.
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Yes, the LDS also may attempt to distance themselves and not fully reveal the true nature of their doctrines when seeking converts. As said, they want to appear no different from actual Christianity even though they are very very very different from Christianity.

Also, just look at some of the Mormon ceremony’s like that of Endowment. It is very very cult like, ever see the videos of it on YouTube? It is a ritual completely foreign to and unknown in Christianity. It has influences from freemasonry! Another reason for them to hide their beliefs. They’re very strange and cult like.
 
What is the point of this? The Church doesn’t behave in this way and neither should you. Any particular reason why you single out Mormons? Why not every denomination that does not accept the true Faith?
 
Tim_D said:
What is the point of this? The Church doesn’t behave in this way and neither should you. Any particular reason why you single out Mormons? Why not every denomination that does not accept the true Faith?
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The Catholic Church officially does not consider Mormons Christians. The Orthodox Church sure doesn’t either, and neither do most Protestants. Even the ELCA, which is a very liberal denomination, does not consider Mormons Christians. There is no singling out here. I am simply trying to help Mormons understand why mainstream Christianity does not view them as Christians.
 
LDS adherents might become Catholics if someone would witness to them. If we had a missionary training program like theirs, and the dedication of their missionaries, the world would be on fire with Catholic truth. Pray for vocations.

In the meantime, most materials available at official LDS bookstores are singing the praises of “how the LDS are the best Christians.” Convincing the LDS of the error of their ways requires down-weaving a lot of intricately interlaced doctrine and custom. It becomes a vicious circle to unravel the testimony to the basic question: is God’s true church still on the face of the earth, and if so where is it?

Right here. And has been for 2,000 years.
 
Tim_D said:
What is the point of this? The Church doesn’t behave in this way and neither should you. Any particular reason why you single out Mormons? Why not every denomination that does not accept the true Faith?
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I just want to give the thoughts on our relations with non Christians from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city.

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

Catechism of the Catholic Church link below; free online and a great resource
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

I post that to show the Church Catholic hopes all to be saved but it’s clear and you can read further in that section that errors exist in non Christian sects that are grave.

Mary.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Does this apply to Muslims?
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a section entitled “The Church and non Christians” which is pretty short and worth the read…and FREE online :cool:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

Here is the section regarding The Church’s relationship with Muslims.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. .

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.

Hope this helps if you got to the end (wink)

God Bless,

Mary.
 
I remember listening to a podcast where Dr James White said that Islam is closer to Biblical Christianity (I.e. Protestantism) than Mormonism is.
 
Tsuzuki said:
Any church, Catholic or Mormon, has the authority to define its doctrines, practices, and what it considers as valid initiations, but the definition of a religious umbrella term is outside its jurisdiction.
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Not according to the Church but I see you are a cafeteria Catholic so why would you care?
 
Tsuzuki said:
If a sect of Islam self-identified as Christian, then I would include them under the umbrella. I am not aware of any that do, though.
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This is an interesting tangent of thought for me. Does simply self identifying as something make you that something? I can see why you’d want to respect someone by respecting their identification, but it does seem to then rob clear language of objective meaning.

I mean, if I say I’m gay, but I have no romantic or sexual interest in the same sex, am I gay? I know some gay people who I believe would be pretty upset by that. Similarly, if I self identify as Democrat but have a voting record that looks like Newt Gingrich am I really Democrat? Lets look at it the other way, can I self Identify as Mormon while still strictly holding all Catholic beliefs?
 
PaulfromIowa said:
OP, it would be better to say “Why Mormonism is not Christian” to avoid personalizing your argument.

It is difficult to argue Christianity with Mormons as there is so little common ground. Joseph Smith rejected almost everything, Scripture and Tradition, that Christians base our faith on. He saw the Christian Bible as a flawed translation. He rejected the Early Church Fathers and Councils as apostate.
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That action is entirely consistent with the notion that there was a complete apostacy. According to JS it was revealed to him that all of the world’s Christian communities were wrong, and he should join none of them. I’m not saying I believe it. I’m just saying he was being entirely consistent with this supposed revelation by his rejection of orthodox Christian doctrine.
 
thephilosopher6 said:
I understand that you find it offensive when mainstream Christians deny you the title.
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shrug. I don’t get offended at all what titles humans extend to me or deny me. My faith is in my God and redeemer, not in a random human on the internet.
But believing Jesus doesn’t automatically make you a Christian just as much as knowing how to do algebra doesn’t make you a mathematician.
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As a fun exercise, perhaps you could turn to holy scripture and let me know what the Bible says someone needs in order to be a Christian? When I do that, I walk away thinking I am one… When someone else does that on my behalf, they always end up adding to the word or preaching some other gospel that can’t be found in the Bible. (I know this exercise is far more fun with Protestants than Catholics, but maybe you’ll humor me anyway.)
 
Tsuzuki said:
It looks like your definition of Christianity has been specifically tailored to exclude Mormonism.
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Yeah, that seems to be the case. I think it’s a perfectly valid point to make, though, since historical Christianity (by this I mean the writings we have from the early Church) makes no mention of Mormon beliefs (as far as I’m aware). And, both the Catholic and Protestant interpretations of Scripture reject what the LDS claims.
Tsuzuki said:
Any church, Catholic or Mormon, has the authority to define its doctrines, practices, and what it considers as valid initiations, but the definition of a religious umbrella term is outside its jurisdiction.
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Mormons can call themselves Christians (I think it would pose a problem for them not to claim the name), but things aren’t one way because someone claims them to be. If we look at the history of Christianity, then that alone deals a major blow to their claim, since they deny several (and that’s an understatement) doctrines of the early Church. I believe we should see the early Church as having “gotten it right”, Mormons believe that there was some major apostasy just after the apostles died. I’m not aware of any documentation that supports their belief, so I put a +1 on my side of the chart.

The LDS are free to claim what they want. That doesn’t mean that Catholics or Methodists or Unitarians or Muslims or anyone else is obligated to believe it.
 
shrug. I don’t get offended at all what titles humans extend to me or deny me. My faith is in my God and redeemer, not in a random human on the internet.
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But this is not simply humans telling you, God himself has been telling you through the Church. The Catholic Church is the mouthpiece of God. Mormonism is blasphemy and a distortion of the Christian faith, and the Holy Spirit has revealed that to the Church. The Church is infallible, yet in your rebelliousness, you refuse to listen to God and wander off in your own ways. You are not a Christian, and that is the simple fact of the matter.

Christ himself says, “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” - Matthew 16:18

As you can see, in Christ’s own words, the Church has authority on this issue because Christ promised the Church infallibility and holiness in all times. Professing supposed great apostasy (of which there is little evidence for anyhow) goes against the teachings of Christ.
As a fun exercise, perhaps you could turn to holy scripture and let me know what the Bible says someone needs in order to be a Christian? When I do that, I walk away thinking I am one… When someone else does that on my behalf, they always end up adding to the word or preaching some other gospel that can’t be found in the Bible. (I know this exercise is far more fun with Protestants than Catholics, but maybe you’ll humor me anyway.
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Not everything can be found in the Bible though, and indeed the Bible can be very vague in certain areas. That is why we have the Church. The Athanasian Creed gives a good definition of what a Christian is, I suggest you check that out. This is of the Church and is thus from the Holy Spirit who guides us.

Christ himself warns against false prophets like Joseph Smith,

" Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." - Matthew 7:15

That verse perfectly applies to Joseph Smith. He was a con man, a liar and cultist, an adulterer, and a man of lust who could not control himself.

Again, Peter also warns against false teachers and destructive heresies,

“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.” - 2 Peter 2:1-3

Sounds a lot like Mormonism doesn’t it?

Mormonism has little in common with Christianity. It is a complete heretical distortion of it created by the false prophet Joseph Smith. The Bible warns us against heresies like the ones you hold to. We hold fast to the word of God though and are mindful to you. And this is a gift that has been given to the Church by Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
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