Why Mormons, JW's and other Cults are definitely wrong.

[East_Anglican]

Mormons, JW’s and other Cults are definitely wrong becuase they all claim that some time after the apostles died the truth was lost and the church died and then in the 19th or 20th century God rose up a ‘prophet’ to resserect his Church. By making this claim, they are calling Jesus a liar. The truth is that Jesus said that he’d build his church and the gates of hell would not prevail. The gates of hell have not prevailed though heretical cults like Mormons JW’s etc indicate that they have. The gates of hell have not prevailed against the church because Jesus is the conquerer of death and hell and he’s not a liar, he’s The Way, The Truth and The Life.

 

[Evan]

I don’t see any problem with Jesus being a liar for the Mormons or the JWs. They do not accept Jesus as THE ONE GOD who is the source of all Truth.

Mormons think we will all become gods if we work thing out right, and many of us lie.

The JWs see Jesus as the incarnation of Michael the Archangel.

 

[East_Anglican]

They believe a lot of strange things that we know are wrong because we have The Bible, The Creeds and 2000 years of Church history to confirm that we are righ anfd they are wrong.

 

[why_me]

Posts would be more christian like if we begin to start not using the world cult to describe other religions. I know that the word has a defensive character but it is also quite hostile if one wants to have a discussion with a member of one of those churches.

True dialogue can only begin when one see the other’s humanity and gives respect to that other’s beliefs, as human beings.

 

[Allweather]

Posts would be more christian like if we begin to start not using the world cult to describe other religions. I know that the word has a defensive character but it is also quite hostile if one wants to have a discussion with a member of one of those churches.

True dialogue can only begin when one see the other’s humanity and gives respect to that other’s beliefs, as human beings.

I tend to agree, and I am trying to repent of the use of the word “cult” with respect to Mormonism. I’ve toned it down, but have not yet eradicated it from my patterns. Still working on that.

However, I would pose this question to you: as a member of a church that sends some 30k of its young people around the world, especially in the Catholic nations of central and south America (but, strangely, not in any moslem countries, isn’t that interesting?) going door to door, working to deceive people into joining that religion by means of arguments that do not fully reveal the nature of that religion. Does THAT show respect to the dominant religion of those countries?

 

[mgupta]

Posts would be more christian like if we begin to start not using the world cult to describe other religions. I know that the word has a defensive character but it is also quite hostile if one wants to have a discussion with a member of one of those churches.

True dialogue can only begin when one see the other’s humanity and gives respect to that other’s beliefs, as human beings.

I agree. It doesnt do any good to degrade other religions. I definitely think that dialogue between other religions is essential to religious tolerance and understanding. However, I think we need to be sensitive to others religion and beliefs.

 

[mgupta]

I tend to agree, and I am trying to repent of the use of the word “cult” with respect to Mormonism. I’ve toned it down, but have not yet eradicated it from my patterns. Still working on that.

However, I would pose this question to you: as a member of a church that sends some 30k of its young people around the world, especially in the Catholic nations of central and south America (but, strangely, not in any moslem countries, isn’t that interesting?) going door to door, working to deceive people into joining that religion by means of arguments that do not fully reveal the nature of that religion. Does THAT show respect to the dominant religion of those countries?

no

 

[Alma147]

However, I would pose this question to you: as a member of a church that sends some 30k of its young people around the world, especially in the Catholic nations of central and south America (but, strangely, not in any moslem countries, isn’t that interesting?)

Ah, but they do go in Moslem countries where it is legal to proselytize. LDS Missionaries are in many African countries, India, Indonesia and the Philippines.

… going door to door, working to deceive people into joining that religion by means of arguments that do not fully reveal the nature of that religion. Does THAT show respect to the dominant religion of those countries?

Do you really think Mormons believe they are working to deceive people? What purpose would that serve?

Alma

 

[Dauphin]

There’s no need for threads like this! It seems a bit mean-spirited. Let’s not be too smug about the correctness of our religion.

 

[Geocacher]

I agree that there ARE Cults, and there are others that are CULT-LIKE in appearence. THe LDS faith WAS a church that was completely rebuilt from the Ground up, so it may not fit in perfectly with Mainline Churches, and what is so different about the LDS church, is the whole thing is based on what they believe that is GOD’s Plan of Salvation. A fair bit of the beliefs of the LDS church came from Promptings of the Holy Spirit. Only GOD knows to what extent each church is GOD made versus Man made. No two churches are exactly the same, just like snowflakes.

I have to say that I gave up on searching for the TRUE church, so I have been working hard with prayer to just ask the Holy Spirit which is the better place for me to attend, and it has been, to attend my sister’s ward, instead of my own ward. And when I went to the church back on the 18th, I felt the spirit very strongly, and we all did, and even though I was the Visitor, I was asked to get up and close the Meetings with a final prayer.

The hangup here is that there ARE cults, and to stay away from them, but at the same time do some fasting and prayer to ask the Holy Spirit which of these churches should I attend, and to do this may require much fasting and separating yourself from the things of this world, including anything that causes sin apon thy heart, including breaking the law of chasity, and having a lack of love for GOD and your fellow human around you, to even including uncondition love of all human kind.

The last paragraph is sort of a formula that I have tryied to follow, except, I never been able to fast for long, without some health problems.

For all I know I could be a lost sheep, but I love GOD, and mankind, as unconditionally as I can possibly do here on Earth, for I don’t know why the Lord has allowed all the churches to have splintered off, and collect much BAGGAGE over the years, except that HE allows FREE WILL, or Free Agency, since this time on Earth is like a Final Exam for all of us, whether we pass, fail, or that we may grow in spiritual strength outside of GOD’s presence, in a human body.

Love you all,
Geoff

 

[Allweather]

Ah, but they do go in Moslem countries where it is legal to proselytize. LDS Missionaries are in many African countries, India, Indonesia and the Philippines.

Two or three days ago I read a couple of articles that were linked to in another thread, out of what I understand are an LDS magazine, that said that LDS had agreed not to proseletyze Moslems out of respect for that religion, which Mormons admire so much.

I’m pretty sure Phillipines are overwhelmingly Catholic. Do the Mormon missionaries focus in on the minority moslems there? Or do they spend most or all of their time on the Catholics?

Africa is a very mixed bag of religions. Big place. To say Mormons are missionarying in Africa doesn’t really specify very much. Catholicism is enjoying huge gains in many parts of Africa. I wouldn’t be surprised to find Mormon missionaries clustered in those places.

India has quite a few Catholics. One of our visiting priests is Indian, and I’ve known many other Indian priests over the years. My understanding is that India is overwhelmingly Hindu, and that the Moslems went over to Pakistan after the two countries were separated. I might be wrong, though. Not an expert.

Indonesia, I understand it is primarily Moslem, but I will look that up at the CIA site. Late edit: According to the CIA site, Indonesia is 88% moslem, 8% Christian (5% Protestant and 3% Catholic) with the remainder divided among Hindus and Buddhists and other.

Do you really think Mormons believe they are working to deceive people? What purpose would that serve?

Well, some are, but most are deceived themselves, and think they are sharing Truth. I can’t really fault the young missionaries, as they are not really responsible adults. On a program on EWTN recently a former Mormon who came to Catholicism said that during his mission he was instructed not to get into matters of specific Mormon beliefs with prospects. I’ve also heard this from former Mormons here in this forum.

As to what purpose it would serve? Isn’t that obvious? Shouldn’t we assume that salespeople are mischaracterizing their product, however slightly, for purposes of closing the deal?

 

[Allweather]

Geocatcher, how do Mormons view the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

It is my understanding from things I’ve read here, and overheard elsewhere, that Mormons and JWs are locked in competition for converts, and that they don’t agree with each other on very many religious matters.

Christians view JWs as a cult. Do Mormons also view them as a cult?

 

[reborn_pagan]

Just curious, would Wicca/NeoPaganism be a cult in your opinions?

 

[Alma147]

Geocatcher, how do Mormons view the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

Since Geocatcher hasn’t answered, I’ll throw in my .02. JW’s are viewed by Mormons about the same way we view the everybody else people belonging to different religions–they don’t give them much thought.

It is my understanding from things I’ve read here, and overheard elsewhere, that Mormons and JWs are locked in competition for converts, and that they don’t agree with each other on very many religious matters.

I don’t see any competition with JW’s for converts. Mormons are willing to talk to anyone who will talk to them. Perhaps their evangelical efforts make them enough visible enough to notice that they’re out hitting the pavement as are Mormons. But I don’t personally know any former JW’s who are Mormons; but I do know quite a few former Catholics and Baptists. Of the JW’s I encountered when I was a missionary, I never felt any kind of competition with them, they seemed to attract a different type of person–they also seemed to me like a zealous Protestant but maybe on steroids.

Christians view JWs as a cult. Do Mormons also view them as a cult?

Mormons don’t generally categorize others as belonging to “cults.”

Alma

 

[teachccd]

I don’t want to get caught in the crossfire on this thread but does anyone see the fervency in Catholicism that is found in the Mormons or JW’s? Most Catholics don’t even go to Mass which is the source and summit of our faith. Yes, those religions are misdirected but those folks put their heart into what they believe is truth. If anything, let’s wake up our sleeping giant and take note… God Bless

 

[Alma147]

Two or three days ago I read a couple of articles that were linked to in another thread, out of what I understand are an LDS magazine, that said that LDS had agreed not to proseletyze Moslems out of respect for that religion, which Mormons admire so much.

I’m not aware of admiring Moslems (except for Anwar Sadat–he had a callous on his forehead from praying. I thought that was admirable. I don’t even have callouses on my knees.) While I don’t know everything that the LDS Church does, I think I’d have heard about something like that. We don’t proselytize in Moslem countries where it’s illegal, when missionaries go door to door, they certainly don’t inquire to see what religion the people are before asking if they’d like to hear what they have to say.

I’m pretty sure Phillipines are overwhelmingly Catholic. Do the Mormon missionaries focus in on the minority moslems there? Or do they spend most or all of their time on the Catholics?

They focus on anyone who will listen to them, irrespective of their religion.

Africa is a very mixed bag of religions. Big place. To say Mormons are missionarying in Africa doesn’t really specify very much.

They’ve had trouble with polygamous men who wanted to convert (they can’t be baptized if they have plural wives), and I doubt these people are Catholics.

Well, some are, but most are deceived themselves, and think they are sharing Truth. I can’t really fault the young missionaries, as they are not really responsible adults. On a program on EWTN recently a former Mormon who came to Catholicism said that during his mission he was instructed not to get into matters of specific Mormon beliefs with prospects. I’ve also heard this from former Mormons here in this forum.

So, I as a responsible adult Mormon am dishonest? I’ve spent a great deal of time investigating “orthodox” Christianity, and it doesn’t make sense to me. OTOH, Mormonism is the most consistent theology I’ve ever encountered.

As to what purpose it would serve? Isn’t that obvious? Shouldn’t we assume that salespeople are mischaracterizing their product, however slightly, for purposes of closing the deal?

But “closing the deal” would only make sense if the people continued to believe. You think that these missionaries are converting morons who don’t know what they have and only the dishonest ones stay? That’s quite an indictment.

Alma

 

[majick275]

So, I as a responsible adult Mormon am dishonest? I’ve spent a great deal of time investigating “orthodox” Christianity, and it doesn’t make sense to me. OTOH, Mormonism is the most consistent theology I’ve ever encountered.

I certainly am NOT calling you dishonest. I do have a hard time with someone classifying mormonism as consistent theology. If you told me most correct then it’s merely a matter of faith or opinion. but consistent seems too easily disproven. Mormon teachings and practices have changed DRAMATICALLY over the years. compare what was presented in general conference in the Journal of Discourses or the teachings of the prophet joseph smith or the orignal version of the DHC to what is presented now from general conference in the ensign. it appears at least to have at least 5 distinctively different periods of doctrine and practice. (Kirtland, nauvoo, utah, post manifesto and spencer Kimball to present)

But “closing the deal” would only make sense if the people continued to believe. You think that these missionaries are converting morons who don’t know what they have and only the dishonest ones stay? That’s quite an indictment.

Alma

I have to speak up here. it has been my experience that missionaries will baptize anyone they can. it’s then up to the members to keep them active. Every ward I was in had an activity rate in the low to mid 30% range. I won’t call this dishonest since i believe the efforts were sincere but it seemed a very salesy model of liner and closer work to get the deal then move on leaving the rank and file to “keep the customer happy”. I think very few mormon converts are well catechized in mormon doctrine. that’s not the LDS way. many a mission president sounds just like a sales manager, focused on numbers and trying to motivate his charges to “get those 'gators in the water”.

 

[Allweather]

I don’t want to get caught in the crossfire on this thread but does anyone see the fervency in Catholicism that is found in the Mormons or JW’s? Most Catholics don’t even go to Mass which is the source and summit of our faith. Yes, those religions are misdirected but those folks put their heart into what they believe is truth. If anything, let’s wake up our sleeping giant and take note… God Bless

I do see lots of fervent Catholics. I’d agree that probably “most” American Catholics are not very fervent, but that is true of most religions, including the LDS. LDS are no more fervent than Catholics, as a percentage of church-goers being the measure.

These things vary quite a bit, region to region, country to country. Where I live, the Catholic churches are full. Even daily Mass in my parish turns out hundreds of worshipers.

 

[Allweather]

I’m not aware of admiring Moslems (except for Anwar Sadat–he had a callous on his forehead from praying. I thought that was admirable. I don’t even have callouses on my knees.) While I don’t know everything that the LDS Church does, I think I’d have heard about something like that. We don’t proselytize in Moslem countries where it’s illegal, when missionaries go door to door, they certainly don’t inquire to see what religion the people are before asking if they’d like to hear what they have to say.

In another thread a couple of days ago, geocatcher linked to an article in the August 2000 issue of Ensign by James Toronto, entitled, “A Latter Day Saint Perspective On Muhammed”. Here is a small quote from that article:

""The Church has sought to respect Islamic laws and traditions that prohibit conversion of Muslims to other faiths by adopting a policy of nonproselyting in Islamic countries of the Middle East. “” (empahsis mine)

I’m sure you are aware of many similarities between Islam and Mormonism. This article explores a few of those, as well as describing some of the warm relations between the two religions.

They focus on anyone who will listen to them, irrespective of their religion.

Does the Mormon church keep stats on the number of moslems they convert out of these countries where they send their missionaries?

They’ve had trouble with polygamous men who wanted to convert (they can’t be baptized if they have plural wives), and I doubt these people are Catholics.

True, not likely Catholics, but possibly other pagan religions, or even moslems, since, as I’ve read, Mormons and moslems share a certain sympathetic attitude towards polygamy.

so I as a responsible adult Mormon am dishonest? I’ve spent a great deal of time investigating “orthodox” Christianity, and it doesn’t make sense to me. OTOH, Mormonism is the most consistent theology I’ve ever encountered.

Your honesty or dishonesty is a matter between you and God. I have no opinions on that, as I don’t know you. I assume you to be an honest man. Just out of curiosity, to what extent have you studied Christianity? Have you studied the Catholic Catechism? I’d be curious what areas therein you found nonsensical.

But “closing the deal” would only make sense if the people continued to believe. You think that these missionaries are converting morons who don’t know what they have and only the dishonest ones stay? That’s quite an indictment.

You must never have bought a new car.

 

[Allweather]

Mormons don’t generally categorize others as belonging to “cults.”

Alma

Ah, but Christians do. All Christians. Not just Catholics. Our separated Protestant brethren share with us a concern about the spread of the cults, of which there are many, Mormonism being only one among a fairly long list of cults which have their origins in Christianity, but which have fallen so far away from it that they are now Christian in name only.

We are able to describe them, analyze their teachings, see what there is about them that is heretical and cultish, and make judgements about them. We don’t hate the poor souls who, for whatever reason, have bought into these cults. But we don’t like the religious teachings of these, which guide people away from unity with the Church that Jesus established upon the Apostles, and a proper knowledge of Jesus Himself.