Why Mormons, JW's and other Cults are definitely wrong.

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In another thread a couple of days ago, geocatcher linked to an article in the August 2000 issue of Ensign by James Toronto, entitled, “A Latter Day Saint Perspective On Muhammed”. Here is a small quote from that article:

""The Church has sought to respect Islamic laws and traditions that prohibit conversion of Muslims to other faiths by adopting a policy of nonproselyting in Islamic countries of the Middle East. “” (empahsis mine)
Which is very different from what you expressed: “…that said that LDS had agreed not to proseletyze Moslems out of respect for that religion, which Mormons admire so much.” Obviously, the reason not to proselytize is related to our willingness to respect the laws that prohibit such conduct.
Does the Mormon church keep stats on the number of moslems they convert out of these countries where they send their missionaries?
I’m sure they keep statistics by country, but not by former religion.
True, not likely Catholics, but possibly other pagan religions, or even moslems, since, as I’ve read, Mormons and moslems share a certain sympathetic attitude towards polygamy.
Not currently. Polygamists cannot be baptized (unlike RLDS nee Community of Christ) who do admit polygamists.
Your honesty or dishonesty is a matter between you and God. I have no opinions on that, as I don’t know you. I assume you to be an honest man. Just out of curiosity, to what extent have you studied Christianity? Have you studied the Catholic Catechism? I’d be curious what areas therein you found nonsensical.
Fairly extensively. My favorite Bible is a Catholic one (but I’m trying to convert it…) and I’m fluent in Italian and even spent several hours years ago interviewing the Archbishop of Ravenna. I find the same things nonsensical about Catholicism (though to a lessor extent) that I find with Protestantism – the trinity, some of the creeds, its perspectives on sexuality and marriage, ecclesiology. No matter how much I disagree with Catholicism, it does have a degree of intellectualism about it that is nowhere evident in Protestantism. Mormons, like Catholics, take the revelations they have received, and reason upon those revelations, and come to inescapable conclusions.
You must never have bought a new car.
I think your analogy falls apart. If I buy a car and find out I was treated dishonestly, I’d hardly recommend the salesman to others. The most consistent source of converts in the LDS faith is from friends of LDS people.

Alma
 
more like a multilevel marketing deal than buying a car.

BTW, when did the community of Christ (RLDS) start admitting polygamists?

I am also curious as to which parts of the creeds you find nonsenical and why?
 
BTW, when did the community of Christ (RLDS) start admitting polygamists?
When they first encountered polygamists in African missionary work.
I am also curious as to which parts of the creeds you find nonsensical and why?
WRT Athanasian Creed, in the words of James Talmage, “It would be difficult to conceive of a greater number of inconsistencies and contradictions expressed in words as few.”

Alma
 
Which is very different from what you expressed: “…that said that LDS had agreed not to proseletyze Moslems out of respect for that religion, which Mormons admire so much.” Obviously, the reason not to proselytize is related to our willingness to respect the laws that prohibit such conduct.
Not very different at all from what I expressed. Since the laws proceed from Islamic religion, you are respecting Islamic religion by the the avoidance of spreading the Mormon word among these souls who must need it as much as Christians do. Do you mean that if laws were somehow passed in every Christian country outlawing Mormon missionaries, that the LDS would withdraw them and close down the program?
I’m sure they keep statistics by country, but not by former religion.
Which is convenient if the stats might reveal that there are few and none Islamic converts to Mormonism.
Not currently. Polygamists cannot be baptized (unlike RLDS nee Community of Christ) who do admit polygamists.
I did not know that. Are the CoC-formerly-RLDS active in missionary work in Africa?
My favorite Bible is a Catholic one (but I’m trying to convert it…)
Which one? Why would a Catholic Bible appeal to you?
I find the same things nonsensical about Catholicism (though to a lessor extent) that I find with Protestantism – the trinity, some of the creeds, its perspectives on sexuality and marriage, ecclesiology.
For me, the most nonsensical things about Christianity are the incarnation, the crucifixion, transubstantiation, baptism, pretty much the whole thing makes very little sense from a purely natural man point of view. The structures that deal with social behaviors, like sex, birth control, marriage, divorce, war, social welfare, etc, make a lot of sense to me, and to others not necessarily Christian, because they work.
No matter how much I disagree with Catholicism, it does have a degree of intellectualism about it that is nowhere evident in Protestantism.
I tend to agree, though there are some pretty systematic Protestants out there, some almost as systematic as we Catholics. Not all Protestants are snake handlers.
Mormons, like Catholics, take the revelations they have received, and reason upon those revelations, and come to inescapable conclusions.
I have received no revelations. Have you? Or, are we defining revelation differently? I get my information from the Church, through the teaching authority of the Bible and the Bishops. I often feel “confirmations” and “convictions” during prayer and Bible reading, but I wouldn’t consider those to be “revelations” except in the sense of something being revealed to me that is already out there available to all, something I hadn’t seen before due to hard-headedness and/or stupidity. Don’t Mormons mean something different in the word “revelation”? Such as when Joseph Smith got “revelations” about this or that new thing?
I think your analogy falls apart. If I buy a car and find out I was treated dishonestly, I’d hardly recommend the salesman to others. The most consistent source of converts in the LDS faith is from friends of LDS people.
Maybe in your case, but it is very common for people to get taken to the cleaners by a car salesman, and then proceed to tell everyone what a great car it is. No one wants to admit buying a ****** car, and certainly no one feels great about admitting to being a sucker. In fact, con artists depend on this fact of human nature to keep most of their victims from even reporting the crimes, out of fear of being exposed as idiots and suckers. The same thing applies to religion. People need confirmation that their choice of religion is the very best, and so they will work feverishly to sell that religion to all, far and wide, even when they know deep down that the religion is as phony as a $3 bill.
 
I don’t see any competition with JW’s for converts. Mormons are willing to talk to anyone who will talk to them. Perhaps their evangelical efforts make them enough visible enough to notice that they’re out hitting the pavement as are Mormons. But I don’t personally know any former JW’s who are Mormons; but I do know quite a few former Catholics and Baptists. Of the JW’s I encountered when I was a missionary, I never felt any kind of competition with them, they seemed to attract a different type of person–they also seemed to me like a zealous Protestant but maybe on steroids.
We’ve had at least one former JW who became Mormon, and then became Catholic, right here on this forum in the past couple of months. I can’t remember his username. So there is such a thing, even though you don’t know of any.

The competition between Mormons and JWs is obvious, because you are knocking on the same doors. Your religions are quite different, you are both strenuously evangleizing, and so the competition isn’t something that needs to be explained. The only things you have in common appear to be the door-to-door thing, and a belief in a mythical apostasy of the Catholic Church.

You are also in competition with evangelical Protestants, who aren’t exactly sitting idly by. They’re competing with the Mormons, the JWs, and all the other sects and cults. It is very common for Protestants to “convert” between Protestant sects. I’ve done it, and known many others who have. This is the spirit of Protestantism… the splitting and fracturing of the unity of the Body of Christ. Mormonism is a part of that, and it shows up most brilliantly in the missionary activity that sends thousands of young Mormons into the streets, knocking on doors, looking for ways to fracture the unity of Christianity.
 
Which is convenient if the stats might reveal that there are few and none Islamic converts to Mormonism.
I’m not sure “convenience” has anything to do with it. When I was a missionary, when I taught people about Mormonism, we weren’t interested in their current faith. Although I was a missionary in Italy and most of the people we taught and baptized were Catholics, I remember teaching a Moslem family from Lebanon, and some Valdesi Protestants. When they were baptized, the information we took was their name and birthdate. The same would be true for converts in Alabama. While Baptists might think that too is “convenient” I really don’t see any reason for tracking former faiths.
I did not know that. Are the CoC-formerly-RLDS active in missionary work in Africa?
They have been, but over the past 10 or so years there has been significant splintering so they may not be able to finance far away missions. I’ve read reports that total membership of the CoC is around 70,000 – down from nearly 300,000 forty years ago.
Which one? Why would a Catholic Bible appeal to you?
“Edizione Paoline.” It’s in Italian. I have always loved to compare different translations of the Bible and I think that this one is far superior to translations made by Protestants. Isaiah is especially understandable and I think the translators were honest and didn’t try to manipulate the text as I’ve seen in other versions. If I want to relax and read the Bible, I pick up my Catholic Italian Bible.
I have received no revelations. Have you? Or, are we defining revelation differently?
I meant “scriptures” when I wrote “the revelations.” The terms function synonymously to me.
Maybe in your case, but it is very common for people to get taken to the cleaners by a car salesman, and then proceed to tell everyone what a great car it is.
I think that’s different than sending them to the same guy who cheated them.
The same thing applies to religion. People need confirmation that their choice of religion is the very best, and so they will work feverishly to sell that religion to all, far and wide, even when they know deep down that the religion is as phony as a $3 bill.
That is simply unimaginable to me. If I thought my religion were phony, I certainly wouldn’t pray night and day that my children will remain true to its teachings.

Alma
 
I don’t think most mormons realize that have been cheated. they don’t know it’s phony so they dupe others unknowingly. the most effective car salesman are the ones who don’t know they are ripping off the buyer.
 
They have been, but over the past 10 or so years there has been significant splintering so they may not be able to finance far away missions. I’ve read reports that total membership of the CoC is around 70,000 – down from nearly 300,000 forty years ago.
I’ve read that, too, that they are basically dying out, and that the recent more decided move towards mainstream Protestantism is not much more than a means to a graceful end, similar to how the Worldwide Church of God did it years ago. So, there is reason to rejoice!
“Edizione Paoline.” It’s in Italian. I have always loved to compare different translations of the Bible and I think that this one is far superior to translations made by Protestants. Isaiah is especially understandable and I think the translators were honest and didn’t try to manipulate the text as I’ve seen in other versions. If I want to relax and read the Bible, I pick up my Catholic Italian Bible.
I like reading out of more than one translation, too, but being only an English speaker, with very little Spanish, and a little Korean under my belt, I am limited to English translations. I wondered about your comment, because I’ve had so many Mormons so emphatically state to me that, as far as English goes, it is sola KJV.
I meant “scriptures” when I wrote “the revelations.” The terms function synonymously to me.
I get confused, then. Because Mormons have this ongoing new-revelation thing, when a Mormon says “revelation” I understand that to mean something given unto the prophet direct from on-high.
I think that’s different than sending them to the same guy who cheated them.
True, but people do do it, I’ve seen it done. It also needs saying that the word “cheat” can have a fairly wide range of meaning and general acceptance when it comes to sales gimmicks. “Truth in advertising” is one of those oxymoronic practices that we can’t probably blame on modern secular culture. In other words, it is as old as the oldest profession, which we know to be prostitution. People EXPECT to be “cheated” by car salesmen. I’ve bounced around enough religions to know that there is a very, very fine line between a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman and a JW or Mormon missionary, that fine line being that the vacuum cleaner guy probably knows what he’s doing, while the little missionaries usually have clean hearts and are acting out of ignorance. But all are selling something. This goes for many of the fundamentalist Protestant evangelizers, too. They don’t go door-to-door, but they are extremely active in other venues, and often they are in high-pitch sales mode. They go to bible colleges to learn how to sell religion and “grow” their churches.
That is simply unimaginable to me. If I thought my religion were phony, I certainly wouldn’t pray night and day that my children will remain true to its teachings.
Well, I said it before, this probably doesn’t apply to you. If you haven’t already, read Elmer Gantry. Don’t bother with the film from the 60s, it doesn’t do the book justice. The character of Gantry was based on an actual person, a Protestant minister who lost his faith, but continued as a minister, going thru the motions, because, basically, it was a job. I’ve seen evidence with my own eyes that this happens with Mormons, too.
 
more like a multilevel marketing deal than buying a car.

BTW, when did the community of Christ (RLDS) start admitting polygamists?

I am also curious as to which parts of the creeds you find nonsenical and why?
Community of Christ does not admit Polygamists.
 
When they first encountered polygamists in African missionary work.

WRT Athanasian Creed, in the words of James Talmage, “It would be difficult to conceive of a greater number of inconsistencies and contradictions expressed in words as few.”

Alma
Community of Christ does not recognize or admit Polygamists. I think you need to do a bit more research.
cofchrist.org/seek/faq.asp
 
The Mormon church is not a church in the biblical sense because Mormons do not believe in the dietyship of Christ.
 
I don’t want to get caught in the crossfire on this thread but does anyone see the fervency in Catholicism that is found in the Mormons or JW’s? Most Catholics don’t even go to Mass which is the source and summit of our faith. Yes, those religions are misdirected but those folks put their heart into what they believe is truth. If anything, let’s wake up our sleeping giant and take note… God Bless 🙂
You are absolutely right! So many Catholics either do not go to Mass, which is a sin they ignore and also they do not read their bibles, so they couldn’t spar with anyone to save their lives. Most Catholics I know make up the rules as they go. If they were as fervent as the JW’s or the Mormons then we would have more converts to our religion.
In Christ
 
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