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LibralAteoJesus
Guest
If humans have the capacity to invent religions and fables, what makes a religion more “realistic” and “true” than the other?
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Bahman
Guest
First: What you mean except few? Which one?
Second: There is no two religions which say exactly same things, if they say so the are same.
Third: How you possibly could say that one religion is true and realistic, and others false?
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Qoeleth
Guest
No one ‘invents’ a real religion (except maybe for the Mormons, and such). Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Classical paganism, etc. are not simply someone writing ‘fables’. The reflect and real and communal experiences of life, the world, and the transcendent.
As to which one is more ‘true’, one’s only real guide is the personal resonance it has. Christianity strikes me as being the true one. But that doesn not mean the others are totally ‘false’. They each contain certain truths. Hence, they all generally agree on compassion, reverence of the Divine, restraining natural desires, etc.
I am convinced that Christianity is the most true, but but my only evidence for this is that it speaks to me most strongly.
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Starrsmother
Guest
I would say in true humility and not in jest–that the difference is in your very question. No religion or belief system “appears” to be more realistic or true than another one. Any and all religions or belief systems are either completely true or totally false. With truth there really is no grey area if you think about it–any more than someone can be a little bit pregnant or sort of dying.
Each of us inherently searches for the truth in our own life–especially when it comes to religion. Nobody wants to be the one that upon dying, faces Mohammed not Jesus or opens their spiritual eyes after death to see Adventists holding a huge sign that reads “The Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon–So All Catholics in this line only” and an arrow directing us to hell. When I decided to return to the church after over 30 years, it wasn’t simply so I could try it on like a dress and see if it fit. I already KNEW it wouldn’t fit–I was born a Catholic you see, and the very reason I left was the fact that Catholicism didn’t fit with what I wanted to do in my own prideful life! Infact, it STILL hurts like hell for me to squeeze into the Catholic faith every day–some days even more so than others! LOL!
I returned to the church because it is TRUE and infact only after I spent literally years doing copious investigation and trying my very best and with all my might and intellect to prove that it wasn’t true. Instead, the harder I tried to prove to myself that the Catholic church was a fraud, the more I became convinced that it, alone, holds the only REAL truth out there. Just imagine my frustration at that!
I hunted and looked, I read and studied, I even joined other churches, studied eastern philosophies and Islam and at times practiced no religion at all. But each time that I attempted to find another faith or belief system that did “fit” me and the “me” that I thought I wanted to be on this earth–I would crash head first into the realization that for whatever reason, the church or other belief system simply could not possibly be true! And, frankly, I’d rather believe nothing at all than to pretend to believe something just because I like the rules better or it appeals to the “touchy-feely” side of me—but that deep down inside I KNOW is complete bunk because I studied and looked into it and it couldn’t possibly be anything else BUT bunk!! So, I’m 63 almost, an old lady, and I still continue to squeeze my old bod into the Catholic faith each and every day! LOL and good luck! 
:yup:
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SinnersAnonymus
Guest
Faith without mystical experiences is just intellectualism. At that point it is pretty easy to discard it for another form of intellectualism like science or eastern philosophies like Confucianism. The question then becomes what are these mystical experiences? Science many times falls short explaining weeping icons, miraculous cures, near death experiences, encounters with a loving Creator and such. All too often the best explanation is there is something wrong with you, you simply imagined it, and you have a mental disorder. These are rarely sufficient for the people who experience these phenomena so they seek answers someplace else.
This is one reason New Age is on the rise. However, the issue is not whether or not a person “makes up a religion” but where does the inspiration come from. A lot of the old Fathers of the Church felt that many of the faiths at the time were worshiping various demons in disguise. So the religion was not human made but diabolically influenced. This can be hard to a skeptic to believe since where is the proof evil exists? Well the answer to that is the very mental health field people try to put the person who experiences the mystical phenomenon. While working with the mentally ill I have encountered many people suffering various types of spiritual disorders. While these things try to remain hidden so on the surface it is simple a mental disorder closer examination revealed otherwise. Several times these were the result of dabbling with the occult and New Age.
One quick example, a person I meet seemed like the typical Schizophrenic hearing voices (five of them) since they were a kid. However, medication was ineffective and the voices themselves gave the person advice on whom to talk to, things to do, people to trust and so forth. A pattern grew of people who were religious were to be avoided and punk and Emo friends were good. On a whim I decided to pray with this person even though I didn’t believe in the Evil-one at the time. Sure enough the voices stopped. Eventually after deliverance prayers they went away altogether. The thing about this was that the person was raised New Age and was somewhat hostile to the Faith. However, they indulged me with a prayer not even thinking it would even work. Now I know other Schizophrenics in which this did not happen to and whose voices were very different.
There are more examples I could give and you can read my other posts if you want more elaboration. However, I have gone from a hardcore skeptic/scientific rationalist (people used to call me the doubting Thomas) to a firm believer in this stuff due to my experiences with the mentally ill and healings that have come from our Lord.
So the question that you should be asking is where is the inspiration of their faith? Our Creator, themselves, or the Evil-one. There are overlaps that can occur however, if you truly belong to our Lord you should be able to judge a tree by its fruit. Padre Pio (I know several people who met him)is one of personal examples of this as well as weeping icons. I have met miracle healers as well as people gifted with spiritual guidance and other Charisms. Generally these people do not advertise so they are hard to find. I have seen and experienced healings and have reached a point in my faith I can understand what it is to experience our Creators loving embrace in prayer.
God Bless
:compcoff:
This is one reason New Age is on the rise. However, the issue is not whether or not a person “makes up a religion” but where does the inspiration come from. A lot of the old Fathers of the Church felt that many of the faiths at the time were worshiping various demons in disguise. So the religion was not human made but diabolically influenced. This can be hard to a skeptic to believe since where is the proof evil exists? Well the answer to that is the very mental health field people try to put the person who experiences the mystical phenomenon. While working with the mentally ill I have encountered many people suffering various types of spiritual disorders. While these things try to remain hidden so on the surface it is simple a mental disorder closer examination revealed otherwise. Several times these were the result of dabbling with the occult and New Age.
One quick example, a person I meet seemed like the typical Schizophrenic hearing voices (five of them) since they were a kid. However, medication was ineffective and the voices themselves gave the person advice on whom to talk to, things to do, people to trust and so forth. A pattern grew of people who were religious were to be avoided and punk and Emo friends were good. On a whim I decided to pray with this person even though I didn’t believe in the Evil-one at the time. Sure enough the voices stopped. Eventually after deliverance prayers they went away altogether. The thing about this was that the person was raised New Age and was somewhat hostile to the Faith. However, they indulged me with a prayer not even thinking it would even work. Now I know other Schizophrenics in which this did not happen to and whose voices were very different.
There are more examples I could give and you can read my other posts if you want more elaboration. However, I have gone from a hardcore skeptic/scientific rationalist (people used to call me the doubting Thomas) to a firm believer in this stuff due to my experiences with the mentally ill and healings that have come from our Lord.
So the question that you should be asking is where is the inspiration of their faith? Our Creator, themselves, or the Evil-one. There are overlaps that can occur however, if you truly belong to our Lord you should be able to judge a tree by its fruit. Padre Pio (I know several people who met him)is one of personal examples of this as well as weeping icons. I have met miracle healers as well as people gifted with spiritual guidance and other Charisms. Generally these people do not advertise so they are hard to find. I have seen and experienced healings and have reached a point in my faith I can understand what it is to experience our Creators loving embrace in prayer.
God Bless
:compcoff:
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LegoGE1947
Guest
The only and I mean ONLY true religion is Catholicism. The Son of God started it by dying for our sins. Even all the Protestant groups out there were started by some man or group of men. They owe all they have that is good or true to the Catholic Faith. This is so regardless of whether or not it gives you “goose bumps” or warm, fuzzy feelings, even if you don’t believe it, it is still true. To me, that is the awesome part of the whole Catholic thing, objective truth.
(I’ve had warm feelings when I have soiled my pants, and goose bumps from being out in the cold without an overcoat, so those are out of the equation!)
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mocap58
Guest
1.I beleive that they were talking about the 40,000 christian demoninations in the world.
2 Catholic verses the other demoniations.
2 Catholic verses the other demoniations.
- Thats a good question the best answer i have hear is from “Have a lttile faith” where a Old Jersey Rabbi Albert Lewis ask " did God make trees? Why Trees, Why not A tree? He’s God, What he makes is perfect. So why not one perfect tree for the whole earth. So maybe faith is the same, many trees with branches all going to him, (question: have you looked at the world lately, the trees are attacking each other) That is not faith, that is hate (response: engaged in the name of religion) and wrongly, thou shalt not kill, honor they neighbor, if I mean these things and the other guy means these things, What do you get? (response: peace on earth)
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SinnersAnonymus
Guest
I agree with you, however I was trying to point out that people in other faiths have experiences which make it appear true to them. The blending of good doctrine and mystical phenomena are what drew me back to the faith. I am not disputing what makes Catholicism the true faith. But I am trying to provide insight that New Age, Occults, and so on also have experiences which often lead them away and many times they are very real events designed to mislead them.The only and I mean ONLY true religion is Catholicism. The Son of God started it by dying for our sins. Even all the Protestant groups out there were started by some man or group of men. They owe all they have that is good or true to the Catholic Faith. This is so regardless of whether or not it gives you “goose bumps” or warm, fuzzy feelings, even if you don’t believe it, it is still true. To me, that is the awesome part of the whole Catholic thing, objective truth.
The misconception many secular people have is that all faiths are “man-made” or “made-up”. That is to imply it is just an intellectual exercise and thus all equal. From observation, I would argue that there can be influences beyond human understanding. In the old days during the foundation of our faith many people felt the old deities were in fact demons. My experience trying to heal those who dabbled in New Age (much of which follows old heresies) and occult has lead me to believe that this method of leading people away from the one true God never ended and many people are seduced by (false) mystical phenomena.
What makes my faith true would be a long post, but I would point out the fruit it can bear from those who truly practice it (not just professed believers) as proof.
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mocap58
Guest
I totally agree, good response
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sw85
Guest
There is absolutely no logical connection between the two component clauses making up this sentence. Whether or not a religion is true has nothing to do with man’s capacity to invent stories. Maybe you mean “given that…”?
What make a religion true is that it’s true, i.e., that it conforms to objective reality.
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MPat
Guest
I guess the answer must be similar to the answer of other similar questions: “If humans can make up many different pseudoscientific claims, what makes real science more ‘realistic’ and ‘true’ than pseudoscience?” or “If there are many suspects, what makes one of them a real criminal, as opposed to all others?”. One version does correspond to reality, other versions do not. Thus one is true, while others are not. Out of the wrong versions, some have the elements that are closer to reality - they could be considered “more ‘realistic’ and ‘true’” than other wrong versions. There is no apparent reason why things would have to go differently when those versions concern religious matters.
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BertBlyleven
Guest
The amount of reality and truth in the religion, of course.
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aragonjohn1
Guest
do not forget that invention is different than instituting, creating, giving, coming, finding truth,
etc… Now what i have heard of when something is invented that is often( not always ) based
on an old, archaic,predominant or ancient idea(s) also when a fellow creature discover truth,
love or beauty a little invention can be required. So, very few religions are actual “inventions.”
Hope this helps
God bless
S
superwimp
Guest
Hello Libral…
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If we take as a given that the Israelites during the time of Moses and Joshua were the 'true" religion and that the church of Jerusalem during the time of Peter were the true religion, then what are the earmarks of those religions?- They didn’t have a catechism. The only catechism Moses gave is the Lord is one.
- God used the leadership to perform miracles
- The members of these religions had to watch their P’s and Q’s. Many members of both congregations were zapped by God for some infraction.
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jimmy
Guest
There is a qualitative difference between the Judeo-Christian god on the one hand, and the gods (Greek, Roman, Egyptian, American Indian, etc.) on the other. It is emphasizedin the fact that the one has the word God as name, rather than a class of being. According to the Christian way of think, either God exists or he doesn’t. There is no question of which god or how many gods. That is why most religions are made up. It may be the case that all religion has a certain spirit that is inspired. It may be the case there is truth in all religion, but most religions have a mythological concept of a god. And this is one of the problems with arguments like the flying spaghetti monster or Bertrand russel’s big teapot in the sky. They might be valid arguments against the Greek gods or the Egyptian gods but they don’t deal with the question of God.
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